Is MOZ obsessed / fixated with death ?

Is MOZ obsessed with death ?


  • Total voters
    14
A

Anonymous

Guest
suicide is about anger (most notes when left which is rarer than people think is full of hate filled rants if a note is left at all) and yes of course mental illness can contribute. lots of the time alcohol or drugs are involved, almost 2/3's roughly of the time and it causes them to make a decision they might not otherwise. two years ago my wife's 15 yo cousin committed suicide in the woods in his own backyard by hanging himself. he told his mother he was going to go do it and she didn't believe him and let him go. when he didn't return he said he just ran away and wouldn't let the police search in any serious fashion. she tried to still claim him on her taxes. after more time passed the police forced on her a more serious search with cadaver dogs and found that the tree he hung himself from had fallen over and covered the body with leaves. sometimes people are just so angry they don't make good choices and unfortunately some people don't have any real support system or outlet and then it's just to late. iv'e never known a person who committed suicide personally but she has had at least six family members who have that i can think of right off the top of my head three of which occurred while we were together. i do't think any of them cowards. i do understand why people think this though as they are also most of the time angry themselves and it's often a way to guard themselves against there own anger and feelings of powerlessness. it's a hard thing to understand and when you do you often just don't wanna or can't. it's a draining experience.

i only read the last couple of posts and felt compelled to post myself but i'd like to express empathy for anyone who's had to deal with suicide or suicidal thoughts. sometime's calling suicide cowardly is a way for a person to deal with there own feeling's of suicide and to guard against them. it's also not a cowardly act. now off to bed.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
suicide is about anger (most notes when left which is rarer than people think is full of hate filled rants if a note is left at all) and yes of course mental illness can contribute. lots of the time alcohol or drugs are involved, almost 2/3's roughly of the time and it causes them to make a decision they might not otherwise. two years ago my wife's 15 yo cousin committed suicide in the woods in his own backyard by hanging himself. he told his mother he was going to go do it and she didn't believe him and let him go. when he didn't return he said he just ran away and wouldn't let the police search in any serious fashion. she tried to still claim him on her taxes. after more time passed the police forced on her a more serious search with cadaver dogs and found that the tree he hung himself from had fallen over and covered the body with leaves. sometimes people are just so angry they don't make good choices and unfortunately some people don't have any real support system or outlet and then it's just to late. iv'e never known a person who committed suicide personally but she has had at least six family members who have that i can think of right off the top of my head three of which occurred while we were together. i do't think any of them cowards. i do understand why people think this though as they are also most of the time angry themselves and it's often a way to guard themselves against there own anger and feelings of powerlessness. it's a hard thing to understand and when you do you often just don't wanna or can't. it's a draining experience.

i only read the last couple of posts and felt compelled to post myself but i'd like to express empathy for anyone who's had to deal with suicide or suicidal thoughts. sometime's calling suicide cowardly is a way for a person to deal with there own feeling's of suicide and to guard against them. it's also not a cowardly act. now off to bed.
Very insightful. Some say it is a sin, or should be against the law. Others says it is cowardly. They set up taboos--paths to prevention. Making it unacceptable in their minds in order to safeguard themselves from completing suicide. Then saying it is cowardly works. It creates a stigma against suicide. And isn't suicide something to be prevented at all costs? We should never glorify it. We should stigmatize it. Not stigmatize the person. But the act. The behavior is cowardly. Not the person. The person is in crisis.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
We should stigmatize it. Not stigmatize the person. But the act. The behavior is cowardly. Not the person. The person is in crisis.
I don't think you can separate an act from the person committing the act in that way, it's impossible. If an act is cowardly to you, then the person committing the act is a coward.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
its a bit unfair as some of that insight was part of my education/degree, grief counseling conflict resolution etc but you are correct about stigmatization. even if you dont intend to stigmatize you have to be careful in how you approach the topic to avoid appearing that way. you can do harm by being careless.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
I don't think you can separate an act from the person committing the act in that way, it's impossible. If an act is cowardly to you, then the person committing the act is a coward.
It seems not, right? But it is just semantics. If I say you are acting bitchy that does not mean, at your core, you are a bitch. It could be a one time thing. If I say you acted unkind to the neighbor, it does not mean you are an unkind person--all the time. These are exceptions to the rule. Suicide may be a cowardly act, but it does not mean that person is a coward. They may show great courage in work, sports, education. They could be risk takers. CEOs of larger corporations. The Presidents of nations. Most of those folks have demonstrated great courage in their lives. But their final exist--if suicide--is not their finest hour. A time when they were vulnerable. Weakened. I think we can separate the behavior from the person's identity.
 
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realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
its a bit unfair as some of that insight was part of my education/degree, grief counseling conflict resolution etc but you are correct about stigmatization. even if you dont intend to stigmatize you have to be careful in how you approach the topic to avoid appearing that way. you can do harm by being careless.
Yes, but some of that stigmatization is due to self-preservation, as you suggested. So is that a bad thing? Isn't it the same as being opposed to doing drugs and stigmatizing drug use (not the user) so that one is never attempted to dabble?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
to think it is one thing, to say it another, to say it in the press is another all with varying degrees of consequences all of which can be used by the depressed personas defense and even then i dont blame or shame but people should intervene, its the responsible thing to do, especially if theyre saying so in press. just intervene privately. as for drugs i say go after traffickers dealers but thats another issue all together.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It seems not, right? But it is just semantics. If I say you are acting bitchy that does not mean, at your core, you are a bitch. It could be a one time thing. If I say you acted unkind to the neighbor, it does not mean you are an unkind person--all the time. These are exceptions to the rule. Suicide may be a cowardly act, but it does not mean that person is a coward. They may show great courage in work, sports, education. They could be risk takers. CEOs of larger corporations. The Presidents of nations. Most of those folks have demonstrated great courage in their lives. But their final exist--if suicide--is not their finest hour. A time when they were vulnerable. Weakened. I think we can separate the behavior from the person's identity.
That does make sense to me, but I still think that it's impossible to entirely separate the person from the act. If you say I'm acting bitchy, then you ARE saying that I AM ACTING bitchy which is attributing a great deal more portion of blame to myself than saying the act is bitchy but the person isn't - why would anyone other than a bitch act bitchy?
Obviously suicide is an incredibly sensitive thing, so I'm reluctant to debate what you rightly say is semantics, but when you say we should stigmatise the act but not the person I just worry that it's impossible to stigmatise the act without stigmatising the person by default?
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
That does make sense to me, but I still think that it's impossible to entirely separate the person from the act. If you say I'm acting bitchy, then you ARE saying that I AM ACTING bitchy which is attributing a great deal more portion of blame to myself than saying the act is bitchy but the person isn't - why would anyone other than a bitch act bitchy?
Obviously suicide is an incredibly sensitive thing, so I'm reluctant to debate what you rightly say is semantics, but when you say we should stigmatise the act but not the person I just worry that it's impossible to stigmatise the act without stigmatising the person by default?
Because one is a label which becomes a part of their identity. Can I not act cruel occasionally without necessarily being a cruel person? One is all-encompassing. Static. Like, strike one and you are THIS. The other is dynamic, focusing on behavior which can and does change. That is why I prefer to say a person 'with an addiction' rather than 'an addict.' And a person who 'divorced' (a one time event) to a 'divorcee' (a status).

The label of the person is stigmatizing. Making an observation about how they acted doesn't have to be. As long as there is an acknowledgment that the person is forgivable, can change, can grow and learn from his or mistakes. A label suggests they are damaged. It is permanent. An observation of their behavior (even if negative) suggests there is hope for something other.
 

A none E mouse

New Member
Because one is a label which becomes a part of their identity. Can I not act cruel occasionally without necessarily being a cruel person? One is all-encompassing. Static. Like, strike one and you are THIS. The other is dynamic, focusing on behavior which can and does change. That is why I prefer to say a person 'with an addiction' rather than 'an addict.' And a person who 'divorced' (a one time event) to a 'divorcee' (a status).

The label of the person is stigmatizing. Making an observation about how they acted doesn't have to be. As long as there is an acknowledgment that the person is forgivable, can change, can grow and learn from his or mistakes. A label suggests they are damaged. It is permanent. An observation of their behavior (even if negative) suggests there is hope for something other.
Pretentious drivel
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
its not always about is it a label or not or am i being judgmental at least its not the most important part, the most important part isnt am i right its how will this effect sick people. a lot of times when people are angry the issues are about control, external control and internal control, and what the suicidal person thinks. even if what you say might be true most people angry about these issues will not take it well and react by sometimes escalating and pushing themselves to act in harm to themselves. any press campaign about suicide should be directed towards telling people to speak to someone qualified to help them. are we interested in being right or helping people?
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
its not always about is it a label or not or am i being judgmental at least its not the most important part, the most important part isnt am i right its how will this effect sick people. a lot of times when people are angry the issues are about control, external control and internal control, and what the suicidal person thinks. even if what you say might be true most people angry about these issues will not take it well and react by sometimes escalating and pushing themselves to act in harm to themselves. any press campaign about suicide should be directed towards telling people to speak to someone qualified to help them. are we interested in being right or helping people?
Good point. In the context of the larger society as a whole, it may matter how we choose to label people. But in the case of preventing one person from committing suicide, it seems irrelevant. Intervention and directing them to the right agency/support services is key.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Society doesn't have a right to prevent people from killing themselves. It is an individual's choice to make. Of course, there should be help offered if the person doesn't really want to commit suicide and has problems they would like help solving. It really doesn't matter what judgements any of you are passing on anyone who committed suicide. It was their choice and business, and not yours.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
if a person wants to commit suicide then they will and theres nothing people can do about it but almost all are still thinking about it and have an event push them over often while on substances. if they are still alive i believe this proves they are not sure because if they were sure then they would be dead. an intervention by force or otherwise could only gives them time to reconsider or calm down which can be a life saver to them literally and there family metaphorically. most suicides are not rationally premeditated, those are very rare exceptions. i personally dont even really believe that.
 
K

keene

Guest
"What a terrible thing it is ....to love something that death can touch."

Nothing wrong with this conversation...because it's about death and yes, Morrissey does touch on this subject more than most "pop" artists. I think he does a fabulous job.

From my experience suicide and severe depression seem to be a result of loss of courage as some have said. It's nothing to be angry about or feel superior about...there but for the grace of God go you or I.

It is something worth talking about.....because we are finite creatures. When we die....as far as we know.....we join the infinite, and that's a long time.....they say.
 
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