Is "Lost" about the meeting Tyler scene in Fight Club?

Derek17

Well-Known Member
Morrissey was a hardcore boxing fan starting prior to "Lost" being written in 1997 and the book Fight Club came out in 1996. That alone wouldn't make it surprising that he would have read it and this scene's homoeroticism makes it even less surprising.

It just hit me today that the song describes the scene at the beach when the Narrator "meets" Tyler.

"Jet trails in the sky" refer to the Narrator's constant flying; they "leave one thought behind", the Narrator has all these destinations that he goes to but nonetheless he is lost. What is his job, really? What of his pointless possessions? He is lost ultimately; with no true meaning, we are all lost.

"A hand bangs into sand" describes Tyler's appearance as invented by the Narrator to combat his being lost. Tyler is putting the logs together and draws in the sand a line to gauge the shadows cast by each log. He had created the shadow of a giant hand and at exactly 4:30 the hand was perfect for only one minute.

"A name" -- Tyler, Tyler Durden -- "and we all understand. Everybody's lost, but they're pretending they're not lost." The Narrator invents Tyler to "pretend" he is not lost, creating the ideal version of himself.

"So if I see you and I tell you I've watched you": the Narrator "watching" Tyler admiringly making the log structure; "don't make fun of me later, 'cause I'm just lost": when he realizes Tyler is his invention, Tyler indeed makes fun of him later, saying maybe you're my projection and making fun of the fact that Tyler made him everything he had become.

Lost.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
no, i very much doubt it as its a very ambiguous interpretation that could be a lot of meetings and departings. also i also didnt get homoeroticism from that scene. where did you, just because tylers naked (i think thats more about the character being honest and just born so to speak). also, personally, i dont know if hed like fight club very much. hes a good concept man and the idea of a support group for men loosing there masculinity in the modern world and mourning its loss is very cool the execution of the idea is only mediocre and i dont think it would appeal to him much, the novel, though i dont know for sure. i think it too much of a stretch and i think people could make a lot of scenes fit into that song
 

Jamie

Bluff, Ardour & Assoc.
If only he had written a song called "Bob Has Bitch Tits." A little cognitive dissonance what with all the feminist literature he read as a young sprog.
 

CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
 

Derek17

Well-Known Member
I had myself convinced. If you read that chapter and read the lyrics of "Lost" it's funny how many coincidences there are.

Jet trails/flying on planes
Sand/a beach
A name/Tyler Durden becoming conscious, gaining his name
Why? Because everybody's lost and we do what we need to to pretend not to be lost.
 

Derek17

Well-Known Member
To do it justice, you really have to read both through. Compare:

Fight Club, page 32-33:

And somehow, by accident, Tyler and I met.
It was time for a vacation.
You wake up at LAX.
Again.
How I met Tyler was I went to a nude beach. This was the very end of summer and I was asleep. Tyler was naked and sweating, gritty with sand, his hair wet and stringy, hanging in his face.
Tyler had been around a long time before we met.
Tyler was pulling driftwood logs out of the surf and dragging them up the beach. In the wet sand, he'd already planted a half circle of logs so they stood a few inches apart and as tall as his eyes. There were four logs, and when I woke up, I watched Tyler pull a fifth log up the beach. Tyler dug a hole under one end of the log, then lifted the other end until the log slid into the hole and stood there at a slight angle.
You wake up at the beach.
We were the only people on the beach.
With a stick, Tyler drew a straight line in the sand several feet away.
Tyler went back to straighten the log by stamping sand around its base.
I was the only person watching this.
Tyler called over, "Do you know what time it is?"
I always wear a watch.
"Do you know what time it is?"
I asked, where?
"Right here," Tyler said. "Right now."
It was 4:06 p.m.
After a while, Tyler sat cross-legged in the shadow of the standing logs. Tyler sat for a few minutes, got up and took a swim, pulled on a T-shirt and a pair of sweatpants, and started to leave. I had to ask.
I had to know what Tyler was doing while I was asleep.
If I could wake up in a different place, at a different time, could I wake up as a different person?
I asked if Tyler was an artist.
Tyler shrugged and showed me how the five standing logs were wider at the base. Tyler showed me the line he'd drawn in the sand, and how he'd use the line to gauge the shadow cast by each log.
Sometimes, you wake up and have to ask where you are.
What Tyler had created was the shadow of a giant hand. Only now the fingers were Nosferatu-long and the thumb was too short, but he said how at exactly four-thirty the hand was perfect. The giant shadow hand was perfect for one minute, and for one perfect minute Tyler had sat in the palm of a perfection he'd created himself.
You wake up, and you're nowhere.
One minute was enough, Tyler said, a person had to work hard for it, but a minute of perfection was worth the effort. A moment was the most you could ever expect from perfection.
You wake up, and that's enough.
His name was Tyler Durden, and he was a movie projectionist with the union, and he was a banquet waiter at a hotel, downtown, and he gave me his phone number.
And this is how we met.

And page 173:

Tyler Durden is a separate personality I've created, and now he's threatening to take over my real life.
...
I fall asleep and Tyler is running off with my body and punched-out face to commit some crime. The next morning, I wake up bone tired and beat up, and I'm sure I haven't slept at all.

"Lost":

Jet trails in the sky
Leave one word behind
A hand bangs into sand a name
And we all understand
Everybody's lost
But they're pretending they're not lost
Oh, lost
Jet trails in the sky
Leave one thought behind
A hand bangs into sand a name
And we all understand
Everybody's lost
But they're pretending they're not lost
Oh, lost
So if I see you and I tell you
How I've watched you
I'm just lost
So if I see you
And I tell you I've watched you
Don't make fun of me later
'Cause I'm just lost
If I see you and I tell you
How I've watched you
Don't make fun of me later
'Cause I'm just lost
If I see you and I tell you
How I've watched you
Don't make fun of me later
'Cause I'm just lost
 
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Anonymous

Guest
i have every novel hes done. choke was just outright terible. i still think it just coincidence. he has a bunch of songs about beaches and planes and traveling and identity etc so i think it just a coincidence. whats you fav novel of his, i dont wanna look up how to spell his name correctly lol, as i think mine is invisible monsters though survivor and snuff were both also good. hes an alright writer imo and a great concept man. i am glad to see someone at least be so prolific as he has been.
 

Eurydice

New Member
To do it justice, you really have to read both through. Compare:

Fight Club, page 32-33:

And somehow, by accident, Tyler and I met.
It was time for a vacation.
You wake up at LAX.
Again.
How I met Tyler was I went to a nude beach. This was the very end of summer and I was asleep. Tyler was naked and sweating, gritty with sand, his hair wet and stringy, hanging in his face.
Tyler had been around a long time before we met.
Tyler was pulling driftwood logs out of the surf and dragging them up the beach. In the wet sand, he'd already planted a half circle of logs so they stood a few inches apart and as tall as his eyes. There were four logs, and when I woke up, I watched Tyler pull a fifth log up the beach. Tyler dug a hole under one end of the log, then lifted the other end until the log slid into the hole and stood there at a slight angle.
You wake up at the beach.
We were the only people on the beach.
With a stick, Tyler drew a straight line in the sand several feet away.
Tyler went back to straighten the log by stamping sand around its base.
I was the only person watching this.
Tyler called over, "Do you know what time it is?"
I always wear a watch.
"Do you know what time it is?"
I asked, where?
"Right here," Tyler said. "Right now."
It was 4:06 p.m.
After a while, Tyler sat cross-legged in the shadow of the standing logs. Tyler sat for a few minutes, got up and took a swim, pulled on a T-shirt and a pair of sweatpants, and started to leave. I had to ask.
I had to know what Tyler was doing while I was asleep.
If I could wake up in a different place, at a different time, could I wake up as a different person?
I asked if Tyler was an artist.
Tyler shrugged and showed me how the five standing logs were wider at the base. Tyler showed me the line he'd drawn in the sand, and how he'd use the line to gauge the shadow cast by each log.
Sometimes, you wake up and have to ask where you are.
What Tyler had created was the shadow of a giant hand. Only now the fingers were Nosferatu-long and the thumb was too short, but he said how at exactly four-thirty the hand was perfect. The giant shadow hand was perfect for one minute, and for one perfect minute Tyler had sat in the palm of a perfection he'd created himself.
You wake up, and you're nowhere.
One minute was enough, Tyler said, a person had to work hard for it, but a minute of perfection was worth the effort. A moment was the most you could ever expect from perfection.
You wake up, and that's enough.
His name was Tyler Durden, and he was a movie projectionist with the union, and he was a banquet waiter at a hotel, downtown, and he gave me his phone number.
And this is how we met.

And page 173:

Tyler Durden is a separate personality I've created, and now he's threatening to take over my real life.
...
I fall asleep and Tyler is running off with my body and punched-out face to commit some crime. The next morning, I wake up bone tired and beat up, and I'm sure I haven't slept at all.

"Lost":

Jet trails in the sky
Leave one word behind
A hand bangs into sand a name
And we all understand
Everybody's lost
But they're pretending they're not lost
Oh, lost
Jet trails in the sky
Leave one thought behind
A hand bangs into sand a name
And we all understand
Everybody's lost
But they're pretending they're not lost
Oh, lost
So if I see you and I tell you
How I've watched you
I'm just lost
So if I see you
And I tell you I've watched you
Don't make fun of me later
'Cause I'm just lost
If I see you and I tell you
How I've watched you
Don't make fun of me later
'Cause I'm just lost
If I see you and I tell you
How I've watched you
Don't make fun of me later
'Cause I'm just lost

While it could very well be a huge reach, I love the interpretation and how it makes my mind tick. Thanks.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I think it's more likely to be about the opening sequence of the first episode of the TV show lost, which definitely has jet-trails in the sky, hands (and all kinds of things) banging into sand and people meeting each other for the first time and saying their names. Plus its actually called "Lost".

Doubters might point out that Morrissey released the song seven years before the TV show first aired, but I think that just goes to show how very clever Morrissey is.
 

Derek17

Well-Known Member
Re: Is "Lost" about the meeting Tyler scene in Fight Club?

While it could very well be a huge reach, I love the interpretation and how it makes my mind tick. Thanks.
Any time! Reaching is what I do best.

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i have every novel hes done. choke was just outright terible. i still think it just coincidence. he has a bunch of songs about beaches and planes and traveling and identity etc so i think it just a coincidence. whats you fav novel of his, i dont wanna look up how to spell his name correctly lol, as i think mine is invisible monsters though survivor and snuff were both also good. hes an alright writer imo and a great concept man. i am glad to see someone at least be so prolific as he has been.
I have to admit I've only read this book so far but maybe I'll check out his others.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Is "Lost" about the meeting Tyler scene in Fight Club?

Any time! Reaching is what I do best.

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I have to admit I've only read this book so far but maybe I'll check out his others.
if you do only try the first three imo and maybe snuff. those would be fight club, which youve read, survivor and invisible monsters (my fav). avoid choke altogether. even the first three are only alright in my opinion and like i said above its mostly for the concepts rather than the execution
 

Chip

Member
Re: Is "Lost" about the meeting Tyler scene in Fight Club?

Any time! Reaching is what I do best.

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I have to admit I've only read this book so far but maybe I'll check out his others.
I have not read any of the author's books since high school and I am uncertain how I would feel about them now (at the time I loved them), but as somebody else pointed out only his first three novels were worth reading (Fight Club, Invisible Monster, and Survivor--Invisible Monster being my favorite). Than again I don't think I read any of his other books beyond those three and Choke and one that is written as a diary.

I have though in the past reflected on how Morrissey might like Fight Club as there seems to be some overlapping themes and imagery with some of his fixations in the the mid-90s.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Is "Lost" about the meeting Tyler scene in Fight Club?

I have not read any of the author's books since high school and I am uncertain how I would feel about them now (at the time I loved them), but as somebody else pointed out only his first three novels were worth reading (Fight Club, Invisible Monster, and Survivor--Invisible Monster being my favorite). Than again I don't think I read any of his other books beyond those three and Choke and one that is written as a diary.

I have though in the past reflected on how Morrissey might like Fight Club as there seems to be some overlapping themes and imagery with some of his fixations in the the mid-90s.
kinda the same here bhops. i think he would like the idea of fight club but the prose is only so so and i dont think id feel the same about it if i didnt have the movie, which is great, in my head to go along with it. i think hes an average writer myself and a great idea man which isnt me trying to tear him down, if anything im super happy that any writer has his popularity these days but i think its the truth. i loved the idea in invisible monsters about the future that never was. i did think it weird how survivor had terrorists using planes before nine eleven though and the way it was narrated with the black box. creepy.
 

Chip

Member
Re: Is "Lost" about the meeting Tyler scene in Fight Club?

kinda the same here bhops. i think he would like the idea of fight club but the prose is only so so and i dont think id feel the same about it if i didnt have the movie, which is great, in my head to go along with it. i think hes an average writer myself and a great idea man which isnt me trying to tear him down, if anything im super happy that any writer has his popularity these days but i think its the truth. i loved the idea in invisible monsters about the future that never was. i did think it weird how survivor had terrorists using planes before nine eleven though and the way it was narrated with the black box. creepy.
You know now that you bring it up, I don't remember anything about Survivor at all. Other than it involved some member of a religious cult, a company that patents random things that don't exist, bizarre DSM diagnosis, and I think maybe deaths from a cleaning agent? I had forgotten about the terrorism/plane angle, but it sounds familiar.

I remember reading Invisible Monsters during Algebra II class and being engrossed by it (but when compared to Algebra II what isn't engrossing). I vaguely recall reading Fight Club during a different math class. I didn't do very well in high school math. I remember reading Choke at the beach, but I have no memories of reading Survivor. This suggests it was probably not that great of a book.

I have not looked at any of these books for sometime now so I have no idea what I would think of their prose now.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Is "Lost" about the meeting Tyler scene in Fight Club?

You know now that you bring it up, I don't remember anything about Survivor at all. Other than it involved some member of a religious cult, a company that patents random things that don't exist, bizarre DSM diagnosis, and I think maybe deaths from a cleaning agent? I had forgotten about the terrorism/plane angle, but it sounds familiar.

I remember reading Invisible Monsters during Algebra II class and being engrossed by it (but when compared to Algebra II what isn't engrossing). I vaguely recall reading Fight Club during a different math class. I didn't do very well in high school math. I remember reading Choke at the beach, but I have no memories of reading Survivor. This suggests it was probably not that great of a book.

I have not looked at any of these books for sometime now so I have no idea what I would think of their prose now.
i went back and reread fight club not to long ago and i reread invisible monsters every now and then but i think youre essentially correct and probably wont be to satisfied going back now. he just put out beautiful you not long ago and like most of his books post ..monsters it was kinda meh. i think he still has really sweet ideas but is under a lot of pressure to just crank out books. he needs to take more time on the prose and not the outline concept of his work but thats just my opinion. im trying to right a book now called first place and of course its hard so i myself probably dont have much cred to criticize him.
 
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