mspendl828
Banned
Again, you're saying that straight people, damn them, are unable to think/feel that way?
Is It Really So Strange...that these lyrics could be Moz at his most gay?
- Thread starter Roma De Moz
- Start date
Again, you're saying that straight people, damn them, are unable to think/feel that way?
SouthpawGlamour
Slum Mum Peace Corps
"I left the North
I travelled South
I found a tiny house
And I can't help the way I feel"
He left Manchester and went to London
‘Oh yes, you can kick me
And you can punch me
And you can break my face
But you won't change the way I feel
'Cause I love you
Oh ...’
London is tough but he wants to be there
‘And is it really so strange ?
Oh, is it really so strange ?
Oh, is it really so, really so strange ?
I say NO, you say YES
(and you will change your mind)’
Is it really so strange for someone to want to leave a small town and head for London?
‘Why is the last mile the hardest mile ?
My throat was dry, with the sun in my eyes
And I realised, I realised
I could never
I could never, never, never, go back home again’
Now he has mixed feelings, excitement and fear, but he does it, he leaves Manchester forever.
I travelled South
I found a tiny house
And I can't help the way I feel"
He left Manchester and went to London
‘Oh yes, you can kick me
And you can punch me
And you can break my face
But you won't change the way I feel
'Cause I love you
Oh ...’
London is tough but he wants to be there
‘And is it really so strange ?
Oh, is it really so strange ?
Oh, is it really so, really so strange ?
I say NO, you say YES
(and you will change your mind)’
Is it really so strange for someone to want to leave a small town and head for London?
‘Why is the last mile the hardest mile ?
My throat was dry, with the sun in my eyes
And I realised, I realised
I could never
I could never, never, never, go back home again’
Now he has mixed feelings, excitement and fear, but he does it, he leaves Manchester forever.
mspendl828
Banned
sistasheila
tjekket
yes hand in glove
We can go wherever we please
And everything depends upon
How near you stand to me
And if the people stare
Then the people stare
Oh, I really don't know and I really don't care
nobody would look at a a straight couple in the same way compared when 2 men passing them on a street holding hands...well at least if you are living ín small town..but even iN a bigger city there are people with closed minds..its not ALL well there..
WITH GIRLS holding hand ..well they aree mostly consider them "oh best friends" aprt if they a have the butch look they surely can expect some stupid lines from idiots...
We can go wherever we please
And everything depends upon
How near you stand to me
And if the people stare
Then the people stare
Oh, I really don't know and I really don't care
nobody would look at a a straight couple in the same way compared when 2 men passing them on a street holding hands...well at least if you are living ín small town..but even iN a bigger city there are people with closed minds..its not ALL well there..
WITH GIRLS holding hand ..well they aree mostly consider them "oh best friends" aprt if they a have the butch look they surely can expect some stupid lines from idiots...
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Comtesse
Starved Of Mirth
I said nothing of the sort... in a way you could relate to it, but not in the same way. Lyrics like that hold very special meaning for gay people. Again, how would you as a straight person feel that your love for a member of the opposite gender is "unnatural"? You're told from the day you're born that the "natural" way is to find someone of the opposite sex and get married and have kids and live happily ever after. That's "real love" - the love that's celebrated in marriage and wedding anniversaries. Same sex love is treated as an aberration - "unnatural" - and same sex marriages are treated like they are not "real" marriages. The love that is "natural and real" is straight love... and it's not allowed for those of us who don't fit into that mold.
Comtesse
Starved Of Mirth
Exactly, and why do you suppose people would "dare touch a hair on your head"? Why, because that person is gay, of course, and gay bashing is an ever-present danger. Hand In Glove is very specifically gay. Even the "sun shines out of our behinds" is filled with gay innuendo. Just look at the cover.
Albion
Me
I hope you never get your hands on a bowl of alphabety spaghetti or else we will be reading prophecies regarding the end of the world.
Worm
Taste the diffidence
Erm, hold on a second.
The fact that "Hand In Glove" can be listened to as a gay song (and it can) doesn't rule out a "straight" reading. A key point of "Hand In Glove" is that they are "hidden by rags". They're working class. They may be silly dreamers or whatever ("We're all in the gutter...") but they have something the others will never have. They could be like any other poverty-stricken lovers who refuse to conform to society. And what will separate them? Queer-bashing yobs? I guess-- or maybe what Morrissey actually mentions in the song: his own bad luck, which he knows too well.
If Morrissey is to be credited as a smart songwriter, and if we are to believe his oft-repeated ideal to write songs that are carefully worded to appeal to everyone, then we shouldn't start calling these "gay songs". They're not "gay songs" because Morrissey explicitly tried to choose words that allowed the widest possible interpretation. Saying that Morrissey was simply indulging in hiding "secret gay messages" in plain sight really narrows and limits his art and does a disservice to his talents as a writer.
The fact that "Hand In Glove" can be listened to as a gay song (and it can) doesn't rule out a "straight" reading. A key point of "Hand In Glove" is that they are "hidden by rags". They're working class. They may be silly dreamers or whatever ("We're all in the gutter...") but they have something the others will never have. They could be like any other poverty-stricken lovers who refuse to conform to society. And what will separate them? Queer-bashing yobs? I guess-- or maybe what Morrissey actually mentions in the song: his own bad luck, which he knows too well.
If Morrissey is to be credited as a smart songwriter, and if we are to believe his oft-repeated ideal to write songs that are carefully worded to appeal to everyone, then we shouldn't start calling these "gay songs". They're not "gay songs" because Morrissey explicitly tried to choose words that allowed the widest possible interpretation. Saying that Morrissey was simply indulging in hiding "secret gay messages" in plain sight really narrows and limits his art and does a disservice to his talents as a writer.
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Jones
Senior Member
I think people pick out what they want to.
"I Know it's Over" for instance.
You can pick out the one line that has a gay meaning for you, but then you ignore the rest of the narrative where he bemoans a girl marrying a lout who she doesn't love.
I think people who have something to point to to blame all their troubles on (I'm gay, so that's why I'm sad and lonely) forget that everyone else is having exactly the same feelings. This thing (being gay) acquires an immense importance to them that they can only see that as being the cause of feelings of being rejected and can't understand that anyone who is not gay would feel exactly the same way for completely different reasons, like being socially awkward or the wrong colour or even having the wrong opinions. They see these as being insignificant problems to overcome when in fact they are just as isolating as being gay. So when Morrissey sings about isolation it must only be because he's singing about gay people, because no one else experiences it like they do.
"I Know it's Over" for instance.
You can pick out the one line that has a gay meaning for you, but then you ignore the rest of the narrative where he bemoans a girl marrying a lout who she doesn't love.
I think people who have something to point to to blame all their troubles on (I'm gay, so that's why I'm sad and lonely) forget that everyone else is having exactly the same feelings. This thing (being gay) acquires an immense importance to them that they can only see that as being the cause of feelings of being rejected and can't understand that anyone who is not gay would feel exactly the same way for completely different reasons, like being socially awkward or the wrong colour or even having the wrong opinions. They see these as being insignificant problems to overcome when in fact they are just as isolating as being gay. So when Morrissey sings about isolation it must only be because he's singing about gay people, because no one else experiences it like they do.
Hellie
Lost
He sings about many things.....Jack the Ripper/First of the Gang etc....They are not in the first person.He may well have feelings of empathy for any subject manner (remember suffer Little Children?).We shouldn`t read too much into it.And I`m going to not mention the "G" word.
As its been done to death.And its boring.Remember what he said about the subject on The Importance of being Morrissey?
As its been done to death.And its boring.Remember what he said about the subject on The Importance of being Morrissey?
dave the rave
Banned
Do u think that moz fancied marr.in some pictures u can see the way he looks at him wishing he was his man maybe
Comtesse
Starved Of Mirth
Other people mention that line, but I always interpreted that verse as being about his mother marrying his father.
Oh, I agree that the genius of Morrissey's lyrics is that they are open to interpretation and appreciation by everybody. I just am trying to point out that some of the lines resonate much stronger for gay people than for straight people. And vice versa as well. I'm sure a gay man would have a harder time relating to the "She was left behind and sour..." lyrics in "Half A Person". But Morrissey wouldn't be the icon that he is if he wasn't deliberately vague in his lyrical constructions. He wants to be everyone's fantasy... and he does an excellent job in carrying that out.
Comtesse
Starved Of Mirth
maybe
Member
Sure, it could be about a gay couple, but it also could be about a straight couple where one partner is considerably older than the other, or one of them is of another ethnicity etc., the possibilities are endless. I live in a small village and if I turned up with a boyfriend who was merely a tad unconventional people would give me strange looks and talk about me for weeks. It wouldn't be any different if a gay couple walked down the street. Same with The Boy With The Thorn In His Side and Hand In Glove, I'm not dismissing the idea that these songs could have a gay theme, but they could as well be about two outsiders.
Also, to address some other posts, it's also possible to feel unloved and isolated if you're, say, extremely shy and have no self-confidence. That's just an example, there's a sheer endless number of reasons why somebody could feel this way. It's not an exclusively gay thing. Everybody will read into a song what's closest to them.
PregnantForTheLastTime
Hideous trait.
Hey. I have a great idea. Let's put this debate ahem, to bed, once and for all. Find out where he is, take up a collection to buy me a plane ticket- screw that, I can afford the ticket- and I'll go find out whether he's gay.
Absurd? Yes, it is.
The fact is, that's why his songs are so, well, good. He taps into all different kinds of fears and insecurities and crises and dilemmas. Whether deliberately or not, he's written them just ambiguously enough that you can imagine he's talking about you, about the same problems you have. While I always saw "The Boy with the Thorn in his Side" as a coming-out song, it may not be. Actually, we're totally missing the point. Who cares what it was to him? What is it to you? What does it say to you? That's what matters.
And for the record, I always read "Is it Really So Strange" as a leaving-home song. Why would you need to leave your home, your family, the town where you were raised and the life ready for you there, to go off alone to the big city? How dare you ask for more? That's what I think he was answering. It's not enough, I want a different life. Is that really so strange?
Until he's at the bar buying you a drink, asking you out, you don't need to know if he's gay, 50%, or 0%. Until he chooses to involve you in his personal life, it's none of your business. Hasn't he given us enough?
Absurd? Yes, it is.
The fact is, that's why his songs are so, well, good. He taps into all different kinds of fears and insecurities and crises and dilemmas. Whether deliberately or not, he's written them just ambiguously enough that you can imagine he's talking about you, about the same problems you have. While I always saw "The Boy with the Thorn in his Side" as a coming-out song, it may not be. Actually, we're totally missing the point. Who cares what it was to him? What is it to you? What does it say to you? That's what matters.
And for the record, I always read "Is it Really So Strange" as a leaving-home song. Why would you need to leave your home, your family, the town where you were raised and the life ready for you there, to go off alone to the big city? How dare you ask for more? That's what I think he was answering. It's not enough, I want a different life. Is that really so strange?
Until he's at the bar buying you a drink, asking you out, you don't need to know if he's gay, 50%, or 0%. Until he chooses to involve you in his personal life, it's none of your business. Hasn't he given us enough?
PregnantForTheLastTime
Hideous trait.
Of course he did. Duh.
Actually, it looks as though he's staring at the back of (Angie's?) head- he hates smoking.
sistasheila
tjekket
and the handsome devil bside fits in perfectly and that cover-morrissey stated somewhere that that all was well planned to match these songs with that cover.pic
and that lines:
a boy in the bush is worth two in the hand
i think i can help you through your exams
well i forgot who posted that "gay people" claim certain
songs as our songs and do not allow others to relate to that
of course being discriminated to
someone for example
with a different ethnic background do match of course!!!
as in the hand in glove song
my best friend`s ex-boyfriend was black too
so they surely get some stares too- i experienced that too with going out with them
..and we never claim our homosexuality as someting that stood out in the society but society tell us it do-still
... as well as they will treat somebody with a different ethnic background (some)
and again we do not claim these
songs not as 100 percent
OUR songs but I /we relate very strongly to some of his songs
we do not complain and label ourselves
as victims cause WE ARE NOT and we dont do that!(as some post above claim
enough said;-)))
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Comtesse
Starved Of Mirth
No, he's looking at the two of them with envy... wishing that he was more than just a third wheel. Wishing that he had what they have. That's my fantasy and I'm sticking to it! And yes, I completely believe that Morrissey was in love with Johnny Marr. Of course, nothing ever happened between them... but there was a romantic kind of love at work there.
PregnantForTheLastTime
Hideous trait.
Who is the ghostly face sitting next to Moz, between Johnny & Angie's shoulders?
I still see a trace of sneer on his face... which could be an expression of jealousy!
I still see a trace of sneer on his face... which could be an expression of jealousy!
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