Is It Really So Strange...that these lyrics could be Moz at his most gay?

Comtesse

Starved Of Mirth
Who is the ghostly face sitting next to Moz, between Johnny & Angie's shoulders?

I still see a trace of sneer on his face... which could be an expression of jealousy!

I'm not sure who the other people in the picture are...
 

Comtesse

Starved Of Mirth
Sure, it could be about a gay couple, but it also could be about a straight couple where one partner is considerably older than the other, or one of them is of another ethnicity etc., the possibilities are endless. I live in a small village and if I turned up with a boyfriend who was merely a tad unconventional people would give me strange looks and talk about me for weeks. It wouldn't be any different if a gay couple walked down the street. Same with The Boy With The Thorn In His Side and Hand In Glove, I'm not dismissing the idea that these songs could have a gay theme, but they could as well be about two outsiders.

Also, to address some other posts, it's also possible to feel unloved and isolated if you're, say, extremely shy and have no self-confidence. That's just an example, there's a sheer endless number of reasons why somebody could feel this way. It's not an exclusively gay thing. Everybody will read into a song what's closest to them.

Of course you're right. Morrissey likes to write in universals - which is why we love him so.
 

Mars_Rover

Junior Member
Who is the ghostly face sitting next to Moz, between Johnny & Angie's shoulders?

I still see a trace of sneer on his face... which could be an expression of jealousy!

Ooh that is strange -- I love this photo, and I never noticed the ghostly dyke image between Angie and Johnny. I wonder if it's a flaw in the film processing; an image from another frame? Because the perspective looks totally wrong, looks like a person wouldn't even fit on the bus seat where the ghostly dyke is.
 

PregnantForTheLastTime

Hideous trait.
Uh... my first thought is that it's his mom. It looks like a mature woman to me- and very lovely, in a way that reminds me of my mom. Like the queen (only pretty!) or Elizabeth Taylor, that kind of straight-nosed, handsome beauty.

Edited to add: Or Anne Sexton. It's definitely really in the shot, if it was a double exposure, it would overlap Angie and Johnny.
 

Mars_Rover

Junior Member
Could it be the ghost of Anne Sexton?

P.S. I apologize unreservedly if it is Morrissey's mum, but I think she's prettier than that.

P.S.S. Isn't Angie Marr a babe?! So chic.
 
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Comtesse

Starved Of Mirth
gay or straight who actually cares and whos business is it ... not mine or yours or even mark simpsons , its just doesnt make a blind bit of difference and shouldnt

Well, aren't YOU a sourpuss??? :rolleyes:

Morrissey's ambiguous sexuality is one of his most compelling features. If we can talk about his receding hairline and his singing voice, why not talk about his sexuality in all its myriad dimensions?
 

PregnantForTheLastTime

Hideous trait.
Well, aren't YOU a sourpuss??? :rolleyes:

Morrissey's ambiguous sexuality is one of his most compelling features. If we can talk about his receding hairline and his singing voice, why not talk about his sexuality in all its myriad dimensions?

Only because it makes me sad that I don't get to partake in any of the dimensions... except the imaginary, which is creepy and not much fun.
 

SparkleBoy

worships Johnny Thunders
Are you guys talking about "Gay" as in "The Gay 20's?" Like a "Gay ole time?" Hell, that is in the Flintstones lyrics for cryin' out loud. Now THAT is strange!
 

Comtesse

Starved Of Mirth
Yeah, that's it!

No. I can't imagine Moz giddy. It would be nice to see, but no.

Moz Giddy:







And, of course, a picture that's truly gay:

 

PregnantForTheLastTime

Hideous trait.
And, of course, a picture that's truly gay:


You win. That's the most gay photo of Moz any of us is ever likely to see. It's so gay it makes my eyes hurt. Although, the lady with the horrid shoes to his right might as well be a drag queen... those are some bad shoes.
 

Comtesse

Starved Of Mirth
You win. That's the most gay photo of Moz any of us is ever likely to see. It's so gay it makes my eyes hurt. Although, the lady with the horrid shoes to his right might as well be a drag queen... those are some bad shoes.

Those are shoes???? I thought it was some sort of orthopedic device!
 

mspendl828

Banned
I said nothing of the sort... in a way you could relate to it, but not in the same way. Lyrics like that hold very special meaning for gay people. Again, how would you as a straight person feel that your love for a member of the opposite gender is "unnatural"? You're told from the day you're born that the "natural" way is to find someone of the opposite sex and get married and have kids and live happily ever after. That's "real love" - the love that's celebrated in marriage and wedding anniversaries. Same sex love is treated as an aberration - "unnatural" - and same sex marriages are treated like they are not "real" marriages. The love that is "natural and real" is straight love... and it's not allowed for those of us who don't fit into that mold.

If you want an example of what could described, and I think is in fact, as unnatural straight love, go read Romeo and Juliet.

But are you not saying that Morrissey wrote it for Gay people? That i completely disagree with.
 

mspendl828

Banned
Oh, and Hand In Glove is obviously about Marr/The Smiths, surely, and Morrissey finally having his own 'gang' to hang out with.
 

Comtesse

Starved Of Mirth
If you want an example of what could described, and I think is in fact, as unnatural straight love, go read Romeo and Juliet.

But are you not saying that Morrissey wrote it for Gay people? That i completely disagree with.

Romeo and Juliet is not an example of unnatural love. Their love is treated as thoroughly natural and appropriate, it's society's attitudes that are treated as unnatural - after all, the point of that whole story is for you to identify with Romeo and Juliet's love and therefore see the tale as a tragedy.

I'd say an example of unnatural straight love would be Like Normal People - that TV movie with Shaun Cassidy as a developmentally disabled man who falls in love with another developmentally disabled woman. That's considered unnatural by much of society. Also, as somebody already mentioned, interracial love is considered "unnatural" by some idiots. Those are two good examples.

Anyway, I just said that line had more meaning for gay people than for straight people - not that Morrissey wrote it for gay people. He wrote it for himself, of course, like every other line he has ever written. I just meant that every gay person on the planet can relate to that line... but only some straight people can. That's all.

Anyway, how boring this discussion has become... Can't we discuss the ho's on Rock of Love or something??? ;)
 

mspendl828

Banned
I just meant that every gay person on the planet can relate to that line... but only some straight people can.

That's the main thing I take umbridge to in this. If so, why the hell isn't every single gay person on the planet buying Morrissey records!? Because I think we all know they're not.
 

Comtesse

Starved Of Mirth
That's the main thing I take umbridge to in this. If so, why the hell isn't every single gay person on the planet buying Morrissey records!? Because I think we all know they're not.

Because they are human beings - which by default means that 95% of them have no taste in music. I should know - you should hear the crap that my gay neighbors listen to. I mean, they like Celine Dion for chrissakes! They went to see Cher! It's a very sick world we live in.

It also seems that more gay men were into Morrissey when he was young and gorgeous, but now that he's older and not so attractive, they couldn't care less. During the Kill Uncle and Your Arsenal tours, the gay boys were EVERYWHERE. It seemed like gay men made up the majority of the audience at some of the shows. Now it seems like there are way more straight women who fancy Moz. I mean, you used to rarely see any women getting up on stage - it was all men (and lots of straight men, at that). But now? Seems like women and kids are getting onstage. It's very, very strange.
 

Comtesse

Starved Of Mirth
That's the main thing I take umbridge to in this. If so, why the hell isn't every single gay person on the planet buying Morrissey records!? Because I think we all know they're not.

Oh, and I might add that just because you can relate to a sentiment in a song, doesn't mean that you necessarily like the song. I mean, I can relate to "how am I supposed to live without you?" ... but I start vomiting copiously if the song is played anywhere within fifty miles of me.
 

Danny

Senior Member
Because they are human beings - which by default means that 95% of them have no taste in music. I should know - you should hear the crap that my gay neighbors listen to. I mean, they like Celine Dion for chrissakes! They went to see Cher! It's a very sick world we live in.

It also seems that more gay men were into Morrissey when he was young and gorgeous, but now that he's older and not so attractive, they couldn't care less. During the Kill Uncle and Your Arsenal tours, the gay boys were EVERYWHERE. It seemed like gay men made up the majority of the audience at some of the shows. Now it seems like there are way more straight women who fancy Moz. I mean, you used to rarely see any women getting up on stage - it was all men (and lots of straight men, at that). But now? Seems like women and kids are getting onstage. It's very, very strange.

I think the attraction to the gay community is stronger in the US because journalists there stated that he was a gay artist. They presented him like that so it determined his audience.

Whereas in the UK he's always been more of a mainstream indie artist (if that's not a contradiction) who is not really embraced by the gay community at all. In fact the only gay people I know who like him are people who were into indie music before they even thought of themselves as gay. These are people that would run a mile if someone offered them a ticket to see Kylie or the Scissor Sisters. :D

Traditionally, in the UK, Morrissey has mainly attracted straight boys and girls who see themselves as a bit different and slightly intellectual. The cool nerdy types, who only discovered their "coolness" through Morrissey leading the way.
 

Worm

Taste the diffidence
I think the attraction to the gay community is stronger in the US because journalists there stated that he was a gay artist. They presented him like that so it determined his audience.

True to some extent. Depends on which part of the country you were in. I think in New York he had the gay label. In Los Angeles, which is near where I'm from, he was just another fey English alt-rocker.

Anyway, Rolling Stone was the culprit on the gay angle, but it's debatable how much impact that had because not many people who were predisposed to like indie rock actually read RS. The magazine was known as a hippie dinosaur run by middle-aged guys even back then. Believe it or not, aside from imports like the NME, the best magazine to buy was Smash Hits.
 
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