Is Coronavirus as serious as they say?

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
I could cry about the great Manchester bands that missed out: Molly Half Head who I saw at The Roadhouse were great, but just had the one LP. Same with The Paris Angels. But the best of the Manchester underachievers were surely The New Fads; how did they not make it? Their last two albums showed they breathed the same air as The Smiths and The Stone Roses.

I saw The Paris Angels and The New Fads at Cities in The Park, they were both pretty good. I used to like Northside back then and used to go to see The Chameleons a lot (and still do when they do the odd gig)
 

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
I saw The Paris Angels and The New Fads at Cities in The Park, they were both pretty good. I used to like Northside back then and used to go to see The Chameleons a lot (and still do when they do the odd gig)

I never got to see Northside. I really enjoyed their LP—the widespread critical panning it got was one of the cruelest (and most suspect) things I’ve seen from the music press.

Christ, it’s 30 years ago.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I meant "Cool Britannia" not Cool Britainia it was a typo. I question why a band like 'Oasis' were heavily promoted in the media and music press and became a big thing in Britain and others places around the world? I question the motivation of why someone joins a band. Is it to become famous and a celebrity? Is it to make money and a way out of poverty and a life they don't like? Is it to become more popular have influential friends and hang out with other celebrities? Is it about ego and being on stage? Is it about hedonism? Is it about having a romantic relationship finding love? I notice that a lot of male rockstars have good-looking young model girlfriends and they often get divorced and have many different relationships and sometimes sleep around. Things have changed a bit with social media and the internet. There is possibly a darker side to the music industry and a spiritual element. Mark Devlin talks about this in his books. You get people in the music industry who come from working-class backgrounds, very poor and deprived backgrounds and broken homes, strange home situations and abusive backgrounds. 'Oasis' came from a tough working-class background and they didn't have much formal education. Mark Devlin thinks some might be from the right bloodline even if they are working-class and were very poor and deprived. There is also the question of 'image' what the band looks like. Some bands might have a lot of talent but they just don't have the right 'image' or create the type of mood or fashion or trend that the music industry wants to promote at that time. Katy Perry has a very strong image. From what I have heard from some women in the music industry there is still sexism in the industry. There must have been and still are many great musicians and singers who work hard that never made it or were born at the wrong time or were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I guess also some people don't want to be stars and are happy to be in the background. It isn't just about loving music or having a passion for music. I don't really believe in luck but maybe luck has something to do with it. Would you say that 'Oasis' are lucky or fortunate to be where they are today?
I meant *other* places around the world not others it was a typo. Oasis were not just big in Britain but in other places in the world.

There was Manchester's indie music scene. I find it interesting why "music scenes" grow up in some cities. I don't know if we still have "music scenes" in the same way these days? Social media and the internet have changed things. Youth culture has probably changed.
 

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
I meant *other* places around the world not others it was a typo. Oasis were not just big in Britain but in other places in the world.

There was Manchester's indie music scene. I find it interesting why "music scenes" grow up in some cities. I don't know if we still have "music scenes" in the same way these days? Social media and the internet have changed things. Youth culture has probably changed.
There is a direct relationship between the changes in the British music scene and (1) changes to the benefits system and (2) the emergence of specialised music colleges—which the likes of Morrissey, Ian Brown, John Lennon and Syd Barrett would’ve lasted about two minutes in.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
297.jpeg
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
I meant *other* places around the world not others it was a typo. Oasis were not just big in Britain but in other places in the world.

There was Manchester's indie music scene. I find it interesting why "music scenes" grow up in some cities. I don't know if we still have "music scenes" in the same way these days? Social media and the internet have changed things. Youth culture has probably changed.

I don't know either, there doesn't appear to be anything like Punk, Ska, Brit pop at the moment. My youngest kid who is 17 is really into music and she favours guitar based stuff but she doesn't really categories it into a genre. Her favourite song for a while was actually a Morrissey song, My Love I'd Do Anything For You. She's more bands like The 1975 nowadays who I took her to see just before lockdown last year.
 

BookishBoy

Well-Known Member
I don't know either, there doesn't appear to be anything like Punk, Ska, Brit pop at the moment. My youngest kid who is 17 is really into music and she favours guitar based stuff but she doesn't really categories it into a genre. Her favourite song for a while was actually a Morrissey song, My Love I'd Do Anything For You. She's more bands like The 1975 nowadays who I took her to see just before lockdown last year.
The 1975 are great, but also a good illustration of why "scenes" maybe don't exist like they did "back in our day" - because they deliberately try to sound like 10 different styles of music on one album. (Or that's what it sounds like to me, anyway.)
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
The 1975 are great, but also a good illustration of why "scenes" maybe don't exist like they did "back in our day" - because they deliberately try to sound like 10 different styles of music on one album. (Or that's what it sounds like to me, anyway.)

I agree, they generated a fantastic atmosphere at the MEN and I really enjoyed the gig, although I did notice that on Give Yourself A Try they used Joy Division's Disorder as the main riff. Apparently they offered Clear Productions (New Orders company) a portion of the publishing rights but Bernard said it was fine and not to bother, which was nice of him.
 
Last edited:
A

Anonymous

Guest
There is a direct relationship between the changes in the British music scene and (1) changes to the benefits system and (2) the emergence of specialised music colleges—which the likes of Morrissey, Ian Brown, John Lennon and Syd Barrett would’ve lasted about two minutes in.
I know about those popular music colleges. They can be quite expensive. They teach all the popular forms of music and instruments like guitars, drums and keyboards. They teach music production and singing as well.

I worry about that they might take advantage of young people who want to be in music and maybe rip them off financially and sell them dreams about touring around the world which might not happen.

I agree I can't see people like John Lennon lasting in a popular music college. He really struggled at art college as it was and I think he might of left art college in the end. He had emotional problems and would of been too off the wall and different for a college like that. He was a true artist in every sense of the word.

I know some bands in the 1980s said that the benefit system at that time helped them get into bands. It is strange how Margaret Thatcher helped working-class people get successful in bands in the 1980s. The benefit system even helped George Michael and maybe Morrissey although he had help from his Mum.

Art college drop outs used to get into bands in Britain but that has pretty much stopped now since art became a degree course and university fees are pretty high. They end up with a big student loan and maybe other debts. They say that about 50% of young people now go to university! University has become quite big business and they made polytechnics universities. I think what is sad about the popular music colleges is it is like a factory production line they all seem similar and it can be bland. Technology has changed a lot and people can have home studios. Social media and the internet has changed things for record companies.
I can't see George Martin The Beatles producer learning music production at a popular music college. Then there is stuff like The X Factor on TV and The Brit School which is a secondary school.
 

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
I know about those popular music colleges. They can be quite expensive. They teach all the popular forms of music and instruments like guitars, drums and keyboards. They teach music production and singing as well.

I worry about that they might take advantage of young people who want to be in music and maybe rip them off financially and sell them dreams about touring around the world which might not happen.

I agree I can't see people like John Lennon lasting in a popular music college. He really struggled at art college as it was and I think he might of left art college in the end. He had emotional problems and would of been too off the wall and different for a college like that. He was a true artist in every sense of the word.

I know some bands in the 1980s said that the benefit system at that time helped them get into bands. It is strange how Margaret Thatcher helped working-class people get successful in bands in the 1980s. The benefit system even helped George Michael and maybe Morrissey although he had help from his Mum.

Art college drop outs used to get into bands in Britain but that has pretty much stopped now since art became a degree course and university fees are pretty high. They end up with a big student loan and maybe other debts. They say that about 50% of young people now go to university! University has become quite big business and they made polytechnics universities. I think what is sad about the popular music colleges is it is like a factory production line they all seem similar and it can be bland. Technology has changed a lot and people can have home studios. Social media and the internet has changed things for record companies.
I can't see George Martin The Beatles producer learning music production at a popular music college. Then there is stuff like The X Factor on TV and The Brit School which is a secondary school.
It is a factory line.

That organic gang like mentality that typified bands, has gone. The strange thing is that, with these music colleges, there has been a decline in musicianship too—and a related level of contempt for the arrogant ‘rock swagger’ that The Smiths had in spades.

But, as you significantly pointed out, it was the same with the British art scene: meaning, attitude and skill died as the production, and the cost to practitioners spiralled.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
It is a factory line.

That organic gang like mentality that typified bands, has gone. The strange thing is that, with these music colleges, there has been a decline in musicianship too—and a related level of contempt for the arrogant ‘rock swagger’ that The Smiths had in spades.

But, as you significantly pointed out, it was the same with the British art scene: meaning, attitude and skill died as the production, and the cost to practitioners spiralled.
You have no idea what you're talking about. The issue is that you're old, out of touch and simply not looking in the right places. Things are as they always were, the only differences are essentially cosmetic.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It is a factory line.

That organic gang like mentality that typified bands, has gone. The strange thing is that, with these music colleges, there has been a decline in musicianship too—and a related level of contempt for the arrogant ‘rock swagger’ that The Smiths had in spades.

But, as you significantly pointed out, it was the same with the British art scene: meaning, attitude and skill died as the production, and the cost to practitioners spiralled.
That was my feeling about the popular music colleges and contemporary music colleges about them being like a factory production line and there was a blandness about it. I went to one briefly to learn singing in an evening class. It was a private college. Most of them are private colleges which means the fees can be quite expensive. Some sixth form colleges now offer music technology courses and so on paid by the state. I know people who have gone to popular and contemporary music colleges full time. The idea is I guess to create a sort of "school of rock" I suppose- although they teach all forms of popular contemporary music not just rock.

The Brit School is a secondary school what they call high school in America. It is paid for by the state. It is different to the traditional stage schools.

In the 1960s and even a bit in the 1970s a lot of British musicians seemed to be art college/art school dropouts like John Lennon. Syd Barrett who you also mentioned went to art college as well. John Lennon was different he was a bit off the wall unique but at the same time he had emotional problems. I wonder if he had been young today he might of been diagnosed with ADHD? Syd Barrett apparently had Asperger's syndrome but that wasn't a diagnosis back in those days. Psychiatry has changed a lot since the 1950s and 1960s. Most of the state funded Grammar schools have gone.

Another problem is in state schools they have stopped a lot of pupils from learning musical instruments. I don't think music as a subject is valued in schools these days. The arts and creative subjects in general are not valued.

In the past much less young people went to university. Is it now about 50% of all young people in Britain go to university? Since the old polytechnics were given university status and got more funding there are many more universities in Britain than there used to be. University is now big business and they are attracting lots of international students as well. Gone are the days when students could get university "grants". These days they leave university with student loans lots of debt. The benefit system has changed. Things are so much harder for young people these days in general. Getting to own their home could be very difficult.
 

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
That was my feeling about the popular music colleges and contemporary music colleges about them being like a factory production line and there was a blandness about it. I went to one briefly to learn singing in an evening class. It was a private college. Most of them are private colleges which means the fees can be quite expensive. Some sixth form colleges now offer music technology courses and so on paid by the state. I know people who have gone to popular and contemporary music colleges full time. The idea is I guess to create a sort of "school of rock" I suppose- although they teach all forms of popular contemporary music not just rock.

The Brit School is a secondary school what they call high school in America. It is paid for by the state. It is different to the traditional stage schools.

In the 1960s and even a bit in the 1970s a lot of British musicians seemed to be art college/art school dropouts like John Lennon. Syd Barrett who you also mentioned went to art college as well. John Lennon was different he was a bit off the wall unique but at the same time he had emotional problems. I wonder if he had been young today he might of been diagnosed with ADHD? Syd Barrett apparently had Asperger's syndrome but that wasn't a diagnosis back in those days. Psychiatry has changed a lot since the 1950s and 1960s. Most of the state funded Grammar schools have gone.

Another problem is in state schools they have stopped a lot of pupils from learning musical instruments. I don't think music as a subject is valued in schools these days. The arts and creative subjects in general are not valued.

In the past much less young people went to university. Is it now about 50% of all young people in Britain go to university? Since the old polytechnics were given university status and got more funding there are many more universities in Britain than there used to be. University is now big business and they are attracting lots of international students as well. Gone are the days when students could get university "grants". These days they leave university with student loans lots of debt. The benefit system has changed. Things are so much harder for young people these days in general. Getting to own their home could be very difficult.
Yes, life’s more colourful characters have to be diagnosed with something. Failure to accept a diagnosis often means resources and opportunities are systematically withdrawn. So, the interesting and different face an awful dilemma because (to paraphrase Tolstoy) the assimilated student can be assimilated only one way.
 

Light Housework

Meowissey, Hunchbacked Smut Peddler
I fear the youth of today have been neglected for too long. The trouble is that no one is willing to grow up and act their age and look after you anymore. We're all behaving like we can be 21 for the rest of our lives, but we're forgetting that there's a serious business of bringing up the children you spawned to have values and the support they require. My grandma was knitting me cardigans and cooking me a square meal when I went to see her. You're lucky, these days if your grandma isn't out with her pals at Wetherspoons having a cooked breakfast when she should be sat at home cherishing you and knitting you that cardigan. I can also see why the youngsters are behaving the way they are now and holding everyone else to ransome. They've had enough of having noone to look up to. Why should they conduct themselves in any other way? No ones growing up and being wise. No one is there for them. Everyone of every generation above them is behaving the same way they do. Like children.
To my mind, there's a ticking time bomb. We'll all be made to pay for the lack of understanding we've shown to the youngsters of today and the fact that no f***er of whatever age, seems to feel the need to settle down and behave like grown adults and look after them. You have children then you grow up and look after them. Especially as a grandmother or grandfather you cherish your grandchildren. I negate myself of all responsibility because I've not reproduced. I've a right to act like a c***. No one's looking up to me.
If I had a grandchild I would paint for him/her. Knitting is something I could never do.
 

Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
Boris Johnson on the idea of ID schemes in 2014:

“a recipe for tyranny and oppression… If I’m obliged to have one by the emanations of the state, I will grind it up and eat it on my Cornflakes.”
 
Top Bottom