Independent: "Has Morrissey ruined The Smiths?" by Sean Smith (May 13, 2022)

Has Morrissey ruined The Smiths? - The Independent

The ‘Oswald Mosley’ of pop is martyring himself on a cross of his own making, but what does that mean for the legacy of the band that started Morrissey off, asks Sean Smith.


Long, critical discussion piece with usual tropes.
Gated article, but where there's a will...
Read in full:

archive.ph

Regards,
FWD.

 

[Anonymous]

He called Thatcher a Phenomenon.

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He said Farage had killed UKIP by backing Henry Bolton.

Henry Bolton is AGAINST immigration esp Muslims. If Morrissey cared about immigration he would have supported Bolton.

nonsense. Saying someone is a phenomenon doesn't mean he is suggesting she was good. Do you deliberately cut out the other words he said in the same interview where he said she was intentionally evil. Yes she was successful but that doesn't equate to good. History is littered with political leaders who could be described as phenomenons but far from good.

He said Farage would make a good prime minister. Although I don't think anyone in their right minds also ever thought that of Farage.

You are assuming that his dislike of Henry Bolton means he would therefore not be anti immigration because Bolton was anti immigration. That is the most loose line of logic I've heard in a long time. There were many other reasons why Henry Bolton was bad for UKIP and many reasons why Morrissey would consider him to be bad for UKIP.

Bolton is an out and out racist and has spoken out against LGBT equality and blamed LGBT rights for "turning" children gay. Morrissey is obviously not going to like someone with those kind of views. Bolton was toxic in many ways and completely alienated the UKIP voter base from the party. Morrissey by saying this was actually just repeating what Farage had said in the press about Bolton.

Time wise Bolton was only the leader of UKIP for 4 months and had gone by 2018 before Morrissey started expressing his support for "For Britain" so it was nothing to do with what you are saying. UKIP was finished by that point.

To suggest if Morrissey was anti immigration then he would have liked Bolton is just lazy and illogical.

The article /journalist was talking about that comment and his support for For Britain, a hideous band of far right racists with links to holocaust deniers (Waters invited a well known Swedish Holocaust denier to speak at its party conference, along with the repulsive far right commentator, Katie Hopkins).

I know his fanbase would love to keep paraphrasing what he has said and done and tried to excuse these kind of endorsements but really the facts and words and badges speak for themselves.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

nonsense. Saying someone is a phenomenon doesn't mean he is suggesting she was good. Do you deliberately cut out the other words he said in the same interview where he said she was intentionally evil. Yes she was successful but that doesn't equate to good. History is littered with political leaders who could be described as phenomenons but far from good.

He said Farage would make a good prime minister. Although I don't think anyone in their right minds also ever thought that of Farage.

You are assuming that his dislike of Henry Bolton means he would therefore not be anti immigration because Bolton was anti immigration. That is the most loose line of logic I've heard in a long time. There were many other reasons why Henry Bolton was bad for UKIP and many reasons why Morrissey would consider him to be bad for UKIP.

Bolton is an out and out racist and has spoken out against LGBT equality and blamed LGBT rights for "turning" children gay. Morrissey is obviously not going to like someone with those kind of views. Bolton was toxic in many ways and completely alienated the UKIP voter base from the party. Morrissey by saying this was actually just repeating what Farage had said in the press about Bolton.

Time wise Bolton was only the leader of UKIP for 4 months and had gone by 2018 before Morrissey started expressing his support for "For Britain" so it was nothing to do with what you are saying. UKIP was finished by that point.

To suggest if Morrissey was anti immigration then he would have liked Bolton is just lazy and illogical.

The article /journalist was talking about that comment and his support for For Britain, a hideous band of far right racists with links to holocaust deniers (Waters invited a well known Swedish Holocaust denier to speak at its party conference, along with the repulsive far right commentator, Katie Hopkins).

I know his fanbase would love to keep paraphrasing what he has said and done and tried to excuse these kind of endorsements but really the facts and words and badges speak for themselves.

Lol.

The press can edit anything they like. He also slagged Farage & didn't vote for UKIP - which you edit out along with George Galloway - who is very much pro-Islam.

Farage has never been in power & Morrissey has barely mentioned him.

He also wouldn't have favoured Jeremy Corbyn over Theresa May if immigration was his thing.

And he wouldn't have hated Trump.

Plus:

 

[Anonymous]

Lol.

The press can edit anything they like. He also slagged Farage & didn't vote for UKIP - which you edit out along with George Galloway - who is very much pro-Islam.

Farage has never been in power & Morrissey has barely mentioned him.

He also wouldn't have favoured Jeremy Corbyn over Theresa May if immigration was his thing.

And he wouldn't have hated Trump.

Plus:

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Dear God

What has any of those pastes got to do with what we were talking about?

Do you have issues focusing on a discussion?

You have completely ignored everything I said and just started pasting completely unrelated stuff and I have no idea what the connection is. Would you like to explain?

I can categorically state that Morrissey would never have ever said "Thatcher would make a good prime minister". As he said in the very interview you posted, "she was intentionally evil".

You are not using the correct context for the word good. When someone says someone will be a good prime minister that means they will be good for the country and good for the people. They are basic qualities of a good prime minister. It is not the same as saying someone IS a good chef.

Moving on from that rather boring point and getting back to the original posts.

I'll ignore the posts about Dick Gregory and Theresa May and Corbyn because they are completely irrelevant to anything that is in the article or to what I said in the last post or the discussion we were having.

When you say "the press can edit anything they like". Can you explain what you are using that in relation to from anything I said?

Nothing I have spoken about is from the press. Everything I have mentioned relates to Morrissey's own words and actions and visible support for For Britain. I know a lot about that party and I was at their conference when Waters subjected people to the vile words of a holocaust denier followed by the vile words of Katie Hopkins. I didn't get it from the press. To then hear my musical idol expressing his endorsement for that band of hate mongers and wearing their badge on his lapel physically made me want to puke.

Why is it when I present these facts to people on here they instantly change the subject by diverting to unrelated pasting of unconnected articles etc? And why do people always instantly turn to the ridiculous attack on the press in the same way Morrissey always does.

You and he turn to blaming the press and the accuse the press of distorting facts but I have not talked about anything I have got from the press. It was the same when Morrissey insisted Der Spiegel had lied in the printed interview about what he had said but what he wasn't expecting is the newspaper to make public the recording of the interview which completely mirrored what was in print and worse.

You can't keep blaming the press for words and actions that appear on his own page, in interviews with his own nephew, postings of far right youtube videos, and in recordings of his own voice.

At the end of the day you will never be subjective about anything he says because you are brainwashed and a true fanatic. I wish you well with that but if you are going to have an intelligent discussion with me please stop going off track and keep it logical and connected and respond to the points I make otherwise it isn't a discussion but a disjointed illogical diatribe. I don't hold up much hope in ever finding any fan that is able to hold up in this kind of discussion intelligently and logically.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

Dear God

What has any of those pastes got to do with what we were talking about?

Do you have issues focusing on a discussion?

You have completely ignored everything I said and just started pasting completely unrelated stuff and I have no idea what the connection is. Would you like to explain?

I can categorically state that Morrissey would never have ever said "Thatcher would make a good prime minister". As he said in the very interview you posted, "she was intentionally evil".

You are not using the correct context for the word good. When someone says someone will be a good prime minister that means they will be good for the country and good for the people. They are basic qualities of a good prime minister. It is not the same as saying someone IS a good chef.

Moving on from that rather boring point and getting back to the original posts.

I'll ignore the posts about Dick Gregory and Theresa May and Corbyn because they are completely irrelevant to anything that is in the article or to what I said in the last post or the discussion we were having.

When you say "the press can edit anything they like". Can you explain what you are using that in relation to from anything I said?

Nothing I have spoken about is from the press. Everything I have mentioned relates to Morrissey's own words and actions and visible support for For Britain. I know a lot about that party and I was at their conference when Waters subjected people to the vile words of a holocaust denier followed by the vile words of Katie Hopkins. I didn't get it from the press. To then hear my musical idol expressing his endorsement for that band of hate mongers and wearing their badge on his lapel physically made me want to puke.

Why is it when I present these facts to people on here they instantly change the subject by diverting to unrelated pasting of unconnected articles etc? And why do people always instantly turn to the ridiculous attack on the press in the same way Morrissey always does.

You and he turn to blaming the press and the accuse the press of distorting facts but I have not talked about anything I have got from the press. It was the same when Morrissey insisted Der Spiegel had lied in the printed interview about what he had said but what he wasn't expecting is the newspaper to make public the recording of the interview which completely mirrored what was in print and worse.

You can't keep blaming the press for words and actions that appear on his own page, in interviews with his own nephew, postings of far right youtube videos, and in recordings of his own voice.

At the end of the day you will never be subjective about anything he says because you are brainwashed and a true fanatic. I wish you well with that but if you are going to have an intelligent discussion with me please stop going off track and keep it logical and connected and respond to the points I make otherwise it isn't a discussion but a disjointed illogical diatribe. I don't hold up much hope in ever finding any fan that is able to hold up in this kind of discussion intelligently and logically.

You're insane.

 

[Mike Rourke]

Dear God

What has any of those pastes got to do with what we were talking about?

Do you have issues focusing on a discussion?

You have completely ignored everything I said and just started pasting completely unrelated stuff and I have no idea what the connection is. Would you like to explain?

I can categorically state that Morrissey would never have ever said "Thatcher would make a good prime minister". As he said in the very interview you posted, "she was intentionally evil".

You are not using the correct context for the word good. When someone says someone will be a good prime minister that means they will be good for the country and good for the people. They are basic qualities of a good prime minister. It is not the same as saying someone IS a good chef.

Moving on from that rather boring point and getting back to the original posts.

I'll ignore the posts about Dick Gregory and Theresa May and Corbyn because they are completely irrelevant to anything that is in the article or to what I said in the last post or the discussion we were having.

When you say "the press can edit anything they like". Can you explain what you are using that in relation to from anything I said?

Nothing I have spoken about is from the press. Everything I have mentioned relates to Morrissey's own words and actions and visible support for For Britain. I know a lot about that party and I was at their conference when Waters subjected people to the vile words of a holocaust denier followed by the vile words of Katie Hopkins. I didn't get it from the press. To then hear my musical idol expressing his endorsement for that band of hate mongers and wearing their badge on his lapel physically made me want to puke.

Why is it when I present these facts to people on here they instantly change the subject by diverting to unrelated pasting of unconnected articles etc? And why do people always instantly turn to the ridiculous attack on the press in the same way Morrissey always does.

You and he turn to blaming the press and the accuse the press of distorting facts but I have not talked about anything I have got from the press. It was the same when Morrissey insisted Der Spiegel had lied in the printed interview about what he had said but what he wasn't expecting is the newspaper to make public the recording of the interview which completely mirrored what was in print and worse.

You can't keep blaming the press for words and actions that appear on his own page, in interviews with his own nephew, postings of far right youtube videos, and in recordings of his own voice.

At the end of the day you will never be subjective about anything he says because you are brainwashed and a true fanatic. I wish you well with that but if you are going to have an intelligent discussion with me please stop going off track and keep it logical and connected and respond to the points I make otherwise it isn't a discussion but a disjointed illogical diatribe. I don't hold up much hope in ever finding any fan that is able to hold up in this kind of discussion intelligently and logically.

Brilliantly expressed. Well done and thanks.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

Brilliantly expressed. Well done and thanks.

Mike - go to therapy.

There's no way back to credibility once you're claiming to have been at For Britain conferences hearing Holocaust deniers, but are devastated that your idol wore their badge.

 

[NealCassidy]

YOURE aLL rACIST!!!

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Mike - go to therapy.

There's no way back to credibility once you're claiming to have been at For Britain conferences hearing Holocaust deniers, but are devastated that your idol wore their badge.

Some just refuse to see the whole picture.

 

[Anonymous]

Mike - go to therapy.

There's no way back to credibility once you're claiming to have been at For Britain conferences hearing Holocaust deniers, but are devastated that your idol wore their badge.

Oh dear. You do realise that not all people who go to political conferences are supporters of said party don't you? I was there to report back to an independent body/charity interested in the rise of hate and far right movements.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

Oh dear. You do realise that not all people who go to political conferences are supporters of said party don't you? I was there to report back to an independent body/charity interested in the rise of hate and far right movements.

No, you weren't.

You wouldn't be wailing about your idol if you had any insight into these organisations.

 

[Anonymous]

You're insane.

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So "Hitler will be a very good chancellor" is also ok then? You don't understand the nuances of the English language.


If you look at the main meaning of the adjective good in the bible of dictionaries, The Oxford Dictionary it is: "of high quality or an acceptable standard".


The Thatcher point is one that you raised and has nothing to do with the content of that article so stop boring us all with screenshots of a dictionary. We all know what the word means.

Would you like to explain from anything I posted in my response to you what makes me insane?

You would get more credit for being able to hold up an intelligent discussion if you were able to respond to my points re For Britain without just responding saying I am insane.

Do you have that ability or intelligence?

 

[Fake C]

Dick Gregory was iconic but a lunatic, kind of like Morrissey and I can't imagine them sitting and having a conversation for very long before one of them would blow a gasket at something the other said.

 

[Anonymous]

Some just refuse to see the whole picture.

Another meaningless snippet.

It would be great if you would be able to explain the "whole picture" because a short snippet of up your own arse arrogance without actually explaining what you mean is meaningless pap.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

Dick Gregory was iconic but a lunatic, kind of like Morrissey and I can't imagine them sitting and having a conversation for very long before one of them would blow a gasket at something the other said.

Well, they met & no gaskets were blown.

 

[Anonymous]

No, you weren't.

You wouldn't be wailing about your idol if you had any insight into these organisations.

I can assure you I was.

Please explain what you mean by "You wouldn't be wailing about your idol if you had any insight into these organisations."

As a statement like that it is completely meaningless and makes no sense. Do you think you could manage to muster some intelligent response and explain what you mean?

The very reason I am having a problem with said idol is because I know exactly what that organisation is about and what its links are to horrific identity groups in Europe.

It would be useful if you could come up with a logical discussion response to the points about For Britain and Morrissey's endorsement of said party rather than coming up with meaningless statements that have nothing to do with the relevant points I have made.

How do you feel about his endorsement of a far right party that has links to holocaust deniers and identify groups in Europe which have policies that include the enforced deportation of non white europeans with particular emphasis on Muslims and groups whose polices are formed around their belief in the Great Replacement Theory?

 

[Anonymous]

Well, they met & no gaskets were blown.

but who cares? Why is that relevant to this thread?

 

[Anonymous]

YOURE aLL rACIST!!!

Not sure that is relevant either. Did someone mention anyone being racist?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

YOURE aLL iRRELEVANT !!!

 

[Fake C]

Not sure that is relevant either. Did someone mention anyone being racist?

Hey, you know what's relevant? You don't even have an account and you think you're a moderator telling people how to post.

 

[Redacted]

Yet back in the real world, Johnny‘s single, Sprit power and soul has just spent its 16th week in the Official physical sales chart, not bad going for someone who is over according to Rejected.

Official Physical Singles Chart | Official Charts

Compiled by the Official Charts Company, the UK's biggest physical singles of the week, counting sales of CDs, vinyl and other physical formats, across a seven day period.

www.officialcharts.com

No one here cares about what's charting in the UK, and yes he is doing so well he can't even tour on this album or play more than 3 or 4 songs of his own in his opening slot You are such a clown. Why wasn't he at Cruel World again? He's over. They didn't even invite him. Blondie did not bring him on as a special guest People were thrilled to see Morrissey, so to stick to the actual topic of the thread, no, Morrissey has not ruined the Smiths. Are you done counting Morrissey ticket sales yet?