Independent: "Has Morrissey ruined The Smiths?" by Sean Smith (May 13, 2022)

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Has Morrissey ruined The Smiths? - The Independent

The ‘Oswald Mosley’ of pop is martyring himself on a cross of his own making, but what does that mean for the legacy of the band that started Morrissey off, asks Sean Smith.


Long, critical discussion piece with usual tropes.
Gated article, but where there's a will...
Read in full:

Regards,
FWD.
 
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Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.
Obviously, being English I am used to the bitchy bitter snipping of day to day life and the revolting British media if you can hurt someone, then you may as well. If there is elbow room to say something nasty then elbow away
M is also English (although that is news to some on here) and is also used to it and in truth its a part of us all.
However, there are limits. When you move away from The United Kingdom, even for six months, you really see how unneeded it all is, how limiting (you also see how lucky you are to be born there, rather than say Shitsvile, Florida or in a South American backwater)
The sad thing is this was timed , M is doing cruel world, he had kept his mouth shut enough, for some to forget what comes out of it , he had some nice press about his concerts , he has a single and lp out soon (the lp has had rave reviews from everyone I know who has heard it)
So what do they do , plunge the knife, stick in the boot.Boring
Wow, you AND M are English, I had no idea, it's not like you say it in every single post
 

Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.
What an absolute child

Marr took to Twitter to take issue with the prime minister: “David Cameron, stop saying that you like The Smiths, no you don’t. I forbid you.”
 

ACTON

Don't Leave Us In The Dark
Obviously, being English I am used to the bitchy bitter snipping of day to day life and the revolting British media if you can hurt someone, then you may as well. If there is elbow room to say something nasty then elbow away
M is also English (although that is news to some on here) and is also used to it and in truth its a part of us all.
However, there are limits. When you move away from The United Kingdom, even for six months, you really see how unneeded it all is, how limiting (you also see how lucky you are to be born there, rather than say Shitsvile, Florida or in a South American backwater)
The sad thing is this was timed , M is doing cruel world, he had kept his mouth shut enough, for some to forget what comes out of it , he had some nice press about his concerts , he has a single and lp out soon (the lp has had rave reviews from everyone I know who has heard it)
So what do they do , plunge the knife, stick in the boot.Boring
Agree. The best thing is for Moz to ignore it and not give them oxygen.
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
The Smiths were parochial. They were about England and specifically used the culture of the past for lyrical and visual inspiration. JM may have been using funk and Moz may have listened to old soul and reggae but they were as English as you get. Why would Moz not want to see that preserved? The writer is clueless.
 
M

Moz Fan

Guest
Obviously, being English I am used to the bitchy bitter snipping of day to day life and the revolting British media if you can hurt someone, then you may as well. If there is elbow room to say something nasty then elbow away
M is also English (although that is news to some on here) and is also used to it and in truth its a part of us all.
However, there are limits. When you move away from The United Kingdom, even for six months, you really see how unneeded it all is, how limiting (you also see how lucky you are to be born there, rather than say Shitsvile, Florida or in a South American backwater
The sad thing is this was timed ,
M is doing cruel world, he had kept his mouth shut enough, for some to forget what comes out of it , he had some nice press about his concerts , he has a single and lp out soon (the lp has had rave reviews from everyone I know who has heard it)
So what do they do , plunge the knife, stick in the boot.Boring

First things first:

1. M being English by birth is no news to anyone in here.

2. No. M will never get used to the UK media war waged against him.

3. I am South American and love my country and our culture. When you attack places that are the homeland to other people, unnecessarily and tastelessly, you are in fact doing the exact same thing as the type of media that you are criticising do: put a tag on someone, some place, some thing out of prejudice and not of real knowledge.

But, I can agreed with you when you say the article was timed. An evil move by evil people designed solely to hurt Morrissey.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
What an absolute child

Marr took to Twitter to take issue with the prime minister: “David Cameron, stop saying that you like The Smiths, no you don’t. I forbid you.”
Moz didn't think so:

 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Why, he was right, Cameron was twat!

Totally correct! Johnny's statement is to this day cited as how bands should deal with politicians trying to co-opt their music. In his book, Johnny mentions that the tweet was instigated by his teenage daughter - good for her!
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
Obviously, being English I am used to the bitchy bitter snipping of day to day life and the revolting British media if you can hurt someone, then you may as well. If there is elbow room to say something nasty then elbow away
M is also English (although that is news to some on here) and is also used to it and in truth its a part of us all.
However, there are limits. When you move away from The United Kingdom, even for six months, you really see how unneeded it all is, how limiting (you also see how lucky you are to be born there, rather than say Shitsvile, Florida or in a South American backwater)
The sad thing is this was timed , M is doing cruel world, he had kept his mouth shut enough, for some to forget what comes out of it , he had some nice press about his concerts , he has a single and lp out soon (the lp has had rave reviews from everyone I know who has heard it)
So what do they do , plunge the knife, stick in the boot.Boring
Sometimes I agree with the general gist of your points but you really go too far with this 'Johnny Foreigner' thing, it's not needed.
As for the article - far worse has been printed about him, this was a copy-and-paste rehash of previous Press and a potted history of the Smiths.
 

Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.

Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.

Vex

St Teresa of Avila will see you now
The Smiths were parochial. They were about England and specifically used the culture of the past for lyrical and visual inspiration. JM may have been using funk and Moz may have listened to old soul and reggae but they were as English as you get. Why would Moz not want to see that preserved? The writer is clueless.

He didn't want it preserved. He'd been saying it was dead since the 80s. He's never once said immigration should be stopped - that was Tim Jonze's spin. And he grew up between Dublin & Manchester.
 

Dirk Blaggard

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I agree with the general gist of your points but you really go too far with this 'Johnny Foreigner' thing, it's not needed.
As for the article - far worse has been printed about him, this was a copy-and-paste rehash of previous Press and a potted history of the Smiths.
I think, you are making (wind up comments) from other posts cloud that which I am saying here.
I thought you were one of the brighter ones here. So, I surprised you would take that stance. That said I don't come on here enough or read many people comments enough to really know anyone or have an informed opinion.

There are some wonderful people on here, who give and who love M and it's a lovely thing.
They are loyal and unashamed of fandom. They know M has given them joy and they are thankful
They are aware how much M has helped them, and will never forget it
We go to gigs, we buy records, we read interviews. we see M in us and us in him. There is a human connection. A real bond and connection, which is very strong
WE will not be swayed by anyone in suede boots telling us we should dislike M .
But that is it. We are our own people still.

The trouble among the rubble is, there are a hardcore of people who aren't very clever on here.
We all know who and don't need to name them (the type of person who think I was being literal when I said it may be a surprise that Morrissey is English) there are also people here ,who think Morrissey is a religious figure, more than human , god like- this is obviously a form of retardation. Its when you have something missing and have to worship someone or something to make up for it
When you lack self to such a degree, you have to ONLY like that which an artist likes. Personally, I wasn't even like that as a child, let alone an adult
What also springs from this a form of delusion is a lack of self to such a degree, you hate another human, just because you fave artist writes and "open letter"

These people are like people I have met in day to day life, its important for them to feel they are like M, even though they are not.
And I have heard a number say over and over M is American really, or even he's Mexican and go on about "shitty white boy bands" and say some pretty shitty things about the UK etc
So, excuse me for reminding this ilk of person, how English/Irish he is...How much it bleeds into his art and also why us working class brits watching a kitchen stink drama is different to a kid from America watching it. We are connecting to a lived experience, often. They are often watching for Anglophile "to be cool " way (not always but often)
Just as me watching Boyz In The Hood, with a cup of Earl grey, in green leaf England is a removed experience.

For the record, I am not a little Englander and am widely traveled and do not even live in the UK (mainly)
I do not agree with M's views on his political party of choice, and I tend to think he is avoiding being one dog on a chain, only to another kind of dog on another kind of chain - his views are very common, by about 52%
I'm not that Reel Around person, that used to come on here... I'm not keen on Tommy Robson (though i think he was picked on a bit)
Thus, I resent the suggestion that I am sitting on the cliffs of dover, in a deck chair, shaking my fists at incoming boats
Having lived in other places, bar simply England, I can see just how deeply entrenched Britishness/Irishness and all it involves is, I can see how we are different, to people raised in other places. I can also see how utterly English the likes of Ray Davis, Paul Weller and Brett Anderson and our M, is. That is all.
I would also say Springteen is very American in the art and ways, I love Bruce but I don't pretend his Americanness isn't counter to my Englishness and that goes for various other artists and places.

Of course, there is a human connection which goes further and deeper than nurtured ways. However, you would be daft to overlook its importance.

Lastly, I am aware I have gone on a touch, I am not saying objectively being English is better than being American, or German or French. I am just saying ... I am happy I am English .
I love America, but I personally am happy I grew up in England. I know other brits who would have rather grew up in America and I know some Americans who would have rather grown up in the UK or France etc.
Its simply a matter of opinion .


The funny thing is i was pointing out some of the negative points of the British mindset. That seemed to be overlooked
 
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Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
I think, you are making (wind up comments) from other posts cloud that which I am saying here.
I thought you were one of the brighter ones here. So, I surprised you would take that stance. That said I don't come on here enough or read many people comments enough to really know anyone or have an informed opinion.

Thus, I resent the suggestion that I am sitting on the cliffs of dover, in a deck chair, shaking my fists at incoming boats
Oh, come on - when you say things like, "I'm lucky I wasn't born in a South American backwater / Shitsville, Florida"... surely you can see how offensive that is? Perhaps you're not doing it intentionally but you very, very much project this idea that English / Irish fans know Morrissey, own Morrissey and nobody else gets it. And then, of course, there is a natural backlash. I've never met a Moz fan who wasn't an Anglophile in some sense because it's such a big part of M's identity, but this reaction of "Bugger off, he's ours", does not do Brits any favours!
 

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