Independent: "Has Morrissey ruined The Smiths?" by Sean Smith (May 13, 2022)

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Has Morrissey ruined The Smiths? - The Independent

The ‘Oswald Mosley’ of pop is martyring himself on a cross of his own making, but what does that mean for the legacy of the band that started Morrissey off, asks Sean Smith.


Long, critical discussion piece with usual tropes.
Gated article, but where there's a will...
Read in full:

Regards,
FWD.
 
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Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
Because I was born here and my family had lived her for generations and I love that we have a multicultural society and always have. Your name itself speaks of that.

The English are actually part German......you know that right? Besides, having a foreign surname doesn't mean diddly squat.
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
I’m not really interested in gaining trust. What I talk about are facts that are out there for everyone to check themselves if they so wish.

I am not on here often so no point it having an account. It would be damaging for my mental health to be on this page too often.

Do you have trust for the likes of Hoffman then, someone who repeatedly posts inflammatory racist comments?

To all leftists, everyone who doesn't agree with them is a Nattzzziiii. You're just another example of the loony left.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I bet you did. Major lols. :ROFLMAO:
again another lacking in intelligence snippet.

What does that mean exactly. Say what you mean. Snippets mean nothing to anyone.

Crane was over 30 years ago and I have worked in this business for much longer than that and as part of my work I have met and interviewed many political figures and members of political organisations.

Why is that "major lols"?

Do you mean because he was gay that you are resorting to childish attempts at wit in relation to trying to be homophobic?

Such attempts are pointless and meaningless to me.
 

Aubrey McFate

Lonely in Barcelona
She didn't just happen to share the stage with a holocaust denier, it was her conference and she has personal direct links to Ingrid Carlqvist, said Holocaust denier and personally invited him to attend to speak. She would be well aware of his Holocaust denial theories because they are well known.

Ingrid Carlqvist is a she. According to "HOPE not hate," which seems to be something of a cottage industry accusing its ideological enemies of Nazism at every turn, the evidence for Ingrid Carlqvist's Holocaust denial amounts to a single Facebook post and a single tweet. And the content of these two remarks indicate Holocaust skepticism, not Holocaust denial. (To her credit, she is a smoker). Is Anne-Marie Waters expected to rigorously scroll through the entire social media history of everyone she ever invites to a function? You are really reaching. There is nothing in this to suggest that Waters herself holds to or even tacitly endorses Holocaust denial. All of these guilt-by-association instances so far have been a desperate connecting of unrelated dots.

I am opposed to Holocaust denial, but at the same time I'm cautious of it being imputed to people, because the motive is often impure. Norman Finkelstein routinely gets accused of being a Holocaust denier when he is anything but, having had parents who survived the Warsaw ghetto, Majdanek, and Auschwitz.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
The English are actually part German......you know that right? Besides, having a foreign surname doesn't mean diddly squat.

irrelevant. I purely used it to demonstrate that the UK is multicultural since your ancestry is from Germany.

I don't care whether the English are part German, Scandinavian, Indian or whatever. I don't have hangups about ethnicity and have no interest in giving credence to such views.

The fact you jump so quickly to defend your german heritage again just demonstrates your peculiar hangups.

It was a compliment when I said your name demonstrated a multi cultural heritage in the UK. You see it as an insult.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
No......why are you on a Morrissey message board?

To read meaningless drivel from you.

Why are you on a Morrissey message board, because for the most part you only comment on discussions that bring in race, the protection of English culture and immigration?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
To all leftists, everyone who doesn't agree with them is a Nattzzziiii. You're just another example of the loony left.

I'm not on the left. My childhood and family history is one on the left from a mining heritage but I moved more centre a long time ago.

I never have used the word Nazi on here at all and have never called you one. so again more nonsensical snippets of drivel

You think everyone who is against your racist views is on the left. Another example of your lack of logic and brain power.
 

Carlislebaz

Cock of the north
I was going to mention to Hofmann that we all have descended from Africa.
So, like the rest of the population have some African DNA....

God I wish I could see his Smug face now.
Very briefly of course.
 
D

Deleted member 29417

Guest
🙄

Aubrey is obviously Reel.

The Independent reheating old articles isn't a strong enough excuse to start all this disgusting nonsense again.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Ingrid Carlqvist is a she. According to "HOPE not hate," which seems to be something of a cottage industry accusing its ideological enemies of Nazism at every turn, the evidence for Ingrid Carlqvist's Holocaust denial amounts to a single Facebook post and a single tweet. And the content of these two remarks indicate Holocaust skepticism, not Holocaust denial. (To her credit, she is a smoker). Is Anne-Marie Waters expected to rigorously scroll through the entire social media history of everyone she ever invites to a function? You are really reaching. There is nothing in this to suggest that Waters herself holds to or even tacitly endorses Holocaust denial. All of these guilt-by-association instances so far have been a desperate connecting of unrelated dots.

I am opposed to Holocaust denial, but at the same time I'm cautious of it being imputed to people, because the motive is often impure. Norman Finkelstein routinely gets accused of being a Holocaust denier when he is anything but, having had parents who survived the Warsaw ghetto, Majdanek, and Auschwitz.
That maybe what you have looked for on Hope Not Hate's page but Carlqvist has openly spoken about the Holocaust many times. She is a member of a white supremacist group and none of that is secret or hidden. Again Waters would absolutely know this.

To me it makes no difference whether there are gradients of Holocaust denial or skepticism or revisionism, it amounts to the same thing, people trying to rewrite the facts about the Holocaust from a far right and usually anti semitic standpoint. Those who speak claiming there were not the reported number of Jews murdered are in the same gross camp as those who completely deny it.

Waters doesn't need to go through social media to know about the views of all the ugly people she has links with. Their views are well known. Anyone who speaks at Generation Identity meetings knows exactly what they are about and anyone who has stated she wants birth control for Muslims is no different to people saying they wanted to control the births of Jews in my view.

Amongst Carlqvist's many Holocaust related statements:
“You are aware that many of the [Holocaust] survivors have faked their stories?”

She has also been outspoken for a long time saying that there is a Jewish conspiracy that is causing white genocide.

If you do some research you won't have to look very far to find many videos from her online from interviews etc were she speaks about the holocaust and Jews. Denial, revisionism, skepticism, same thing as far as I see.

This aside the hatred expressed quite openly by Waters in speeches is also enough on its own to show what type of person she is and what her moral standpoints are.
 

Ketamine Sun

You're not right in the head, And nor am I, And …
There is no goal on here. I just got involved in this discussion because people brought up the nonsense about all of Morrissey's woes being because of newspapers which then led to other people raising the For Britain issues so I merely chose to take part in that discussion and put some of the facts across and welcomed intelligent discussion for anyone because mostly on here people just throw personal insults when they get asked about something in relation this topic.

I have in this thread had some interesting discussion in the past couple of days putting aside the usual reactionary misfits.

I can't be bothered creating an account and I don't need to know in a chat forum who it is I am talking to. It is purely about discussing the points being raised and not knowing someone's background etc is often a plus point because it helps to focus purely on the discussion points rather than being distracted by past posts that named person may have posted.

fair enough. I don’t know how others feel, but just passing through here and posting anonymously holds no weight.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
fair enough. I don’t know how others feel, but just passing through here and posting anonymously holds no weight.

not really sure what weight you think I am trying to gain. It is purely a discussion and people are entitled to ignore, personally attack or go do their own research if they so choose and everything I have spoken about is freely out there to investigate if there is the appetite.

I reiterate that having a name of Fred or a name of Anonymous has no bearing on "weight" because both are essentially anonymous as is Ketamine Sun.
 

Ketamine Sun

You're not right in the head, And nor am I, And …

I reiterate that having a name of Fred or a name of Anonymous has no bearing on "weight" because both are essentially anonymous as is Ketamine Sun.

Again it’s not about what name. Well, I’ve already said all I need to say about it in my last two posts at this time.

Carry on, if this kind of thing satisfies you.
 

Aubrey McFate

Lonely in Barcelona
🙄

Aubrey is obviously Reel.

The Independent reheating old articles isn't a strong enough excuse to start all this disgusting nonsense again.

Don't calumniate. I am not that user. I have recently started participating on this forum after having been away from it for a while, but I am not a new member. I have been on here for several years and overlapped with Reel Fountain. I think we even had some interactions, so if your theory is true, then that was me talking to myself. Also, I would never shorten the title of one of my favorite Smiths songs so crudely.

I believe that person was a female living the UK. I am a male living in the American South. That person was obsessed with race, whereas as I doubt you will find much in my posting history that has to do with race. To the extent that I even care about race, I think white culture is at a very low ebb in its history and I am not particularly interested in preserving what we've got. Right-wing blather about "saving the West" is lost on me. I would not mind it if Mexico were to somehow miraculously accomplish a Reconquista of the American Southwest and even seized the Southeast as well, just for spite. I would welcome my Latino overlords. Maybe they would be vegan. I would like to be ruled by anyone, right or left, however extreme or deranged, if veganism is prominent in their platform. If memory serves, Reel Fountain was not vegan. I think my pet topics here over the years have probably been: animals, religion, Morrissey's abiding genius, his advocacy for animals, and the unfortunate decline of his music in the Chiccarelli/Manzur era.

I do like Anne Marie Waters (I just now noticed that I have been erroneously hyphenating her name. Forgive me, Mme. Waters). I would never have heard of her, most likely, had it not been for Morrissey's mentions. I have listened to her on some podcasts and watched some of her debates. I think she's whip-smart and charismatic. I can see why Morrissey likes (or liked) her. But then, some people seem to find her to be a repulsive and hateful ghoul, so there's no accounting for taste.
 
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Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
That maybe what you have looked for on Hope Not Hate's page but Carlqvist has openly spoken about the Holocaust many times. She is a member of a white supremacist group and none of that is secret or hidden. Again Waters would absolutely know this.

To me it makes no difference whether there are gradients of Holocaust denial or skepticism or revisionism, it amounts to the same thing, people trying to rewrite the facts about the Holocaust from a far right and usually anti semitic standpoint. Those who speak claiming there were not the reported number of Jews murdered are in the same gross camp as those who completely deny it.

Waters doesn't need to go through social media to know about the views of all the ugly people she has links with. Their views are well known. Anyone who speaks at Generation Identity meetings knows exactly what they are about and anyone who has stated she wants birth control for Muslims is no different to people saying they wanted to control the births of Jews in my view.

Amongst Carlqvist's many Holocaust related statements:
“You are aware that many of the [Holocaust] survivors have faked their stories?”

She has also been outspoken for a long time saying that there is a Jewish conspiracy that is causing white genocide.

If you do some research you won't have to look very far to find many videos from her online from interviews etc were she speaks about the holocaust and Jews. Denial, revisionism, skepticism, same thing as far as I see.

This aside the hatred expressed quite openly by Waters in speeches is also enough on its own to show what type of person she is and what her moral standpoints are.

Your research sucks. Generation Identity as the far-right? Really? Lolz
 

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