'If you eat meat, you're a murderer' - A very silly statement

Yes Siam

Expatriate
This attitude grates on me and I find it rather childish.

I absolutely and passionately endorse the brutal torture and disposal of people who stamp on the heads of calves in bash cows with iron bars in slaughterhouses the same as I absolutely and passionately endorse the brutal torture and disposal of people who torture and murder cats, dogs and innocent humans but I'd sooner have these horrible people beaten and brutally gang raped than having my coffee black.

I think murder is actually the antidote to such evil, yet nobody does anything to make this happen. I don't see any lynch mobs or saboteurs or vigilantes getting together to rid the world of such human filth, though there is the occasional attack on an animal testing laboratory or fur protest, but it isn't enough.

As much as I love all vegetables and the occasional visit to a vegan restaurant (very hard to find in Asia) I also eat meat but I wouldn't call myself a murderer the same as I wouldn't call a smoker suicidal or somebody wearing Nike's an advocate of the slave trade.

I think entire food industry is vile and I hate knowing that our food is controlled, modified, tampered with chemically and synthesized but what can we do unless the majority thinks collectively and becomes immune to advertising and social conditioning? I wholly admire people who are 100% vegan, for whatever reason they do it. I hope some day that vegan restaurants are omnipresent and we can all live like Woody Harrelson.

Cutting meat from my diet would not be impossible, but very very difficult in this part of the world. Also (and this is an old classic) if I quit eating meat it would not save one creature from death. The usual vegetarian reply would be 'Oh if we all had that attitude then nothing would get done', well nowhere near enough seems to be done anyway.

I recently heard that the dog industry is growing. I'm not going to boycott China or South Korea, though they don't appeal much anyway. I doubt there were many, if any, vegetarians on that Air Asia plane - how much do you think that will effect the meat industry? It's all out there in the supermarkets, I don't think anything is going in the bin because a couple of hundred omnivores are no longer with us. No chicken is being rescued and set free in a forest because of a fractional lull in demand that would barely even register even if all those passengers were from the same Indonesian sub-district.

There needs to be a huge sea change. McDonalds and KFC et al need to be shut down globally and those at the top jailed for life. Those in contact with the animals and treating them with indifference need to suffer on a level I don't think I should publish.

Kill or imprison bad people - it's very simple, but it doesn't happen. Commerce needs them and is them.

I don't believe we are NOT supposed to eat meat. We have an omnivore teeth and predatory front facing eyes. However, I do firmly believe that we should have compassion in all that we do and, for want of a better example, have a similar attitude to that of the Na'vi in Avatar. The more vegetarians and vegans the better and perhaps someday i'll move to Europe and be in a better position to join those of you who are.

I remember as a kid being upset at watching my beloved cat toying with a mouse with complete difference and even boredom, frequently distracted and returning to paw the mouse only when it twitched occasionaly during the final death throes. That isn't nice either, but it happens all the time. I was in tears as a child witnessing ants carrying a live caterpillar to their nest on a family holiday to Spain in the 80's, and as a result of my distress I was not allowed to attend a bullfight with my father that evening - something I am now grateful for though I am somewhat disgusted that my father was going with his friend and if he were still alive i'd morally grill him.

Finally, during a wet walk home in the UK one afternoon I felt a wet crunch underfoot as I unwittingly trod on a snail and was very upset by it. There was still life in it so I had to end it's suffering with a stamp.

I despise suffering (unless earned) but to boycott meat is not the answer, it's a personal statement and a step in the right direction at least but it is more a protest against a particular type of suffering yet there are so many other types of suffering that AREN'T seen on YouTube or Facebook posts. Sadly we can't boycott it all and nothing will change until we rise up and rid the world of nasty greedy cunty bastards, but sadly in my lifetime I think that will only be a dream shared by not enough people and that loveable twat Russell Brand.

I'm doing my bit for the planet by not having kids or driving a car, both of which is potentially sparing a lot of animal lives. Give me more vegetarian and vegan restaurants, stop making it a f***ing novelty and make it more affordable and i'm in.

I eat meat, but I'm not a murderer. I am merely a consumer with few options to be anything but.

Just my personal outlook..

Peace.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: 'If you eat meat, you're a murderer' - A very silly statement.

I understand English may not be your first language, however, you use the word 'endorse' in your first paragraph. Either you've misused the word, or you agree with animal abuse. Which is the case?
 

Yes Siam

Expatriate
Re: 'If you eat meat, you're a murderer' - A very silly statement.

I understand English may not be your first language, however, you use the word 'endorse' in your first paragraph. Either you've misused the word, or you agree with animal abuse. Which is the case?

Thanks for pointing that out Anonymous. 'Brutality' edited to 'Brutal' (X2) in the first paragraph.

I'm touched that you understand that English may not be my first language.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: 'If you eat meat, you're a murderer' - A very silly statement.

Thanks for pointing that out Anonymous. 'Brutality' edited to 'Brutal' (X2) in the first paragraph.

I'm touched that you understand that English may not be my first language.

I really didn't mean to offend. I'm sorry if I have. In retrospect I can see I've been an arse.

It is a relief to finally have a considered argument on vegetarianism and the meat industry - not everything is black and white. I for one have some problems with the consumption of meat, not because I would never eat meat, but due to the brutality and general vileness of the meat industry. It is natural for humans to eat meat, just not at the scale we do, or through the production methods that are currently in use.
 

Yes Siam

Expatriate
Re: 'If you eat meat, you're a murderer' - A very silly statement.

I really didn't mean to offend. I'm sorry if I have. In retrospect I can see I've been an arse.

It is a relief to finally have a considered argument on vegetarianism and the meat industry - not everything is black and white. I for one have some problems with the consumption of meat, not because I would never eat meat, but due to the brutality and general vileness of the meat industry. It is natural for humans to eat meat, just not at the scale we do, or through the production methods that are currently in use.

Maybe I should apologise, I thought you were being sarcastic! Either way, no worries - at least you've commented on what I consider to be a very valid comment.

Perhaps that's why there's no other replies.

I almost posted this anonymously myself as it's quite controversial and I expected to be flamed but there's just tumbleweed.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
Re: 'If you eat meat, you're a murderer' - A very silly statement.

You lost me within seconds with your warped revenge fantasies condoning torture, gang rape and murder.

Like Morrissey when he employs similar shock tactics, it undermines your ethical position completely and makes you look slightly mad.
 
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realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Give me more vegetarian and vegan restaurants, stop making it a f***ing novelty and make it more affordable and i'm in.

I eat meat, but I'm not a murderer. I am merely a consumer with few options to be anything but.

Where there's a will there's a way. There are plenty of vegetarian options in Bangkok: restaurants, food courts, markets, dining at home.

Meatless in Bangkok

Health Food, Vegetarian & Vegan Restaurants in Bangkok (147)


Or you can continue to eat meat and own it.
 

Yes Siam

Expatriate
realitybites said:
There are plenty of vegetarian options in Bangkok: restaurants, food courts, markets, dining at home.

I'd go full vegan if I did it, and i'd do it for all of the reasons. This thread isn't about the vegetarian options in this city.

Amy said:
You lost me within seconds with your warped revenge fantasies condoning torture, gang rape and murder.

Like Morrissey when he employs similar shock tactics, it undermines your ethical position completely and makes you look slightly mad.

I didn't go into shock tactics and merely made a point and expressed passion. If that's madness to you, then that's madness to you.

If I'd gone into passionate detail about how I'd like certain types of people (our common enemy I assume) punished for the suffering they dish out with gay abandon, then you'd have a fair point. However, those of us with any iota of imagination should be permitted to at least use it to express negative feelings. I for one don't think evil people need counselling, and I don't think brutal comments undermine somebody's ethical position 'completely', but it could make them seem an idiot to some. I can live with that and in some cases I agree with you on Morrissey's shock tactics which is why I started the post in the first place, but this thread isn't about me or the imperfect tufts of hypocrisy which we can all find in each other if looking for it.
 

realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
I'd go full vegan if I did it, and i'd do it for all of the reasons. This thread isn't about the vegetarian options in this city.

I didn't go into shock tactics and merely made a point and expressed passion. If that's madness to you, then that's madness to you.

It certainly was about you whining that you continue to eat meat because there are few options to eat vegan and vegetarian in your city.

"Give me more vegetarian and vegan restaurants, stop making it a f***ing novelty and make it more affordable and i'm in.

I eat meat, but I'm not a murderer. I am merely a consumer with few options to be anything but."


I proved you are misinformed. You do have alternatives available to you.
 

Kewpie

Member
Moderator
Subscriber
It certainly was about you whining that you continue to eat meat because there are few options to eat vegan and vegetarian in your city.

"Give me more vegetarian and vegan restaurants, stop making it a f***ing novelty and make it more affordable and i'm in.

I eat meat, but I'm not a murderer. I am merely a consumer with few options to be anything but."


I proved you are misinformed. You do have alternatives available to you.

Huh, you must be really bored.

I don't care whether he has an excuse to continue to eat meat or not.
This topic has been discussed numerous occasions in here.

We can ignore an attention seeking thread like this.

I really hope to have thread ignore tool as soon as possible.
 

Yes Siam

Expatriate
It's all in the title.

I think it's silly, dramatic and childish to call somebody who eats meat a murderer.

It's like being condemned to hell by Christians for not going to church and it does not mean that we condone any kind of suffering to animals.

I'm not trolling or being nasty to anyone. My views are as valid as yours. If you don't want to discuss it in a pleasant and friendly manner then you don't need an ignore tool to ignore it, do you?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I think it's silly, dramatic and childish to call somebody who eats meat a murderer.

Do you think animals die a natural death of old age? You are paying for someone to kill/murder them, so you can eat them. There is no squirming away from that simple fact. So, that maybe doesn't make you a direct murder, just the guy who pays someone else to murder for you. Which amounts to pretty much the same thing really.

If I pay someone else to run over and kill my next door neighbour, am I suddenly magically released from all responsibility? Hell no - in this country at least, you would be sent to jail for murder.

"I eat meat, but I'm not a murderer."? Oh, please.

If you don't like something, stop paying for people to do it for you.

If you pay for animals to be killed so you can eat them, when there is no need (sorry I do no buy that you live on some magical island where there is only you, pigs, cows and sheep - and no rice, vegetables etc.), then you support 'animal murder 100% with you actions, and are fully responsible. Saying you don't support something whilst continuing to support it is just hot air, and meaningless. Either change your actions, or stop whining and admit you don't give a shit about animals. You can't have it both ways.
 

Yes Siam

Expatriate
You can't have it both ways.

You can't, but I can and so can most western people.

Animals don't need to suffer in order for us to exist as omnivores.

You know that by being a vegetarian, trillions of animals will still be tortured by horrible people and suffer in horrible conditions. Why don't I ever see vegetarian fundamentalists like yourself ever campaigning for such people to be locked up in equally horrible conditions or a law passed to make the meat industry as humane as could be possible?

How many animals have been saved since the 60's? Very few indeed, because abstaining from meat isn't a solution, it's a statement.

If people had taken just what they needed in the first place and respected animals before taking their lives then there would be a lot less vegetarians, considerably fewer.

If you quit meat because you don't like cruelty to animals then unwittingly you share my view.

If you wish to continue flaming me then of course, you'll find a way to see things as you want whilst avoiding the point completely to suit your own antisocial and immovable agenda.
 

Theo

Active Member
I wouldn't stress about what you eat. What kind of a silly person would call someone a "murderer" over their food choices? Morrissey posted to True To You some years back that he admires terrorists who send nail bombs in the mail to the family residences of scientists working on cures for diseases through biomedical research. A fanatical artist who would write such a disgusting thing to his fans is the person whose morality should be called into question. Morrissey is identical to someone praising those who bomb abortion clinics. What Morrissey wrote there was, in fact, purely evil. Someone eating a piece of chicken or salmon is not evil, and only a dumbshit wacko would suggest otherwise. But, then, we live in a world where people massacre an office full of cartoonists for dissing some warmongering pedophile who lived 1,400 years ago.
 

Theo

Active Member
"Morrissey is identical to someone praising those who bomb abortion clinics."

And no one can legitimately refute that, btw.

"I support the efforts of the Animal Rights Militia in England and I understand why fur-farmers and so-called laboratory scientists are repaid with violence.... They are usually very intelligent people who are forced to act .... " -- Morrissey on True To You.
 
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Yes Siam

Expatriate
"I eat meat, but I'm not a murderer."? Oh, please.

If you don't like something, stop paying for people to do it for you.

I'm not paying anyone to abuse animals. I don't want animals to be abused.

I guess if I made a statement as ridiculous and as adolescent as yours above then i'd also have to be anonymous.

To call the vast majority of humans murderers is completely stupid and irrational and would only come from extremist vegetarians who care more about self appointed moral superiority than they do animal welfare.

Your way hasn't worked. Calves still get stamped on for fun and pigs get their snouts cut off and salt rubbed in the wound for fun, and these employees need to be jailed for life or beaten so severely that they spend the rest of their life dribbling with a twitch. Animal cruelty has very little deterrent. I am saying it needs one, THEN and only then will animals be treated humanely.

You will find that most people, vegetarians or not, are against acts of cruelty perpetrated on animals, be they livestock or domestic - but whilst pious and self righteous vegans and vegetarians refuse to UNITE with omnivores and accept this common ground and work together to do something about it then animals will continue to suffer.

Perhaps you should read this link below and learn that ANY food that is the product of modern-day farming, even a soy burger, and is exacting a toll on life itself, including that of animals.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...hy-vegetarianism-will-not-save-the-world.aspx

I doubt you will though, and if you do you'll not be reading it impartially but combing it for flaws so that you can further sink this forum into the depths of hostility and passive aggressive unfriendliness beyond the current misery which has earned it the Google tagline quoted from Morrissey himself - which seems to be worn with pride around here.

Charlie Cheswick said:
This is so 1985.

Jesus Christ! D'you nuts wanna play cards or do ya wanna f***in' jerk off?
 
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realitybites

making lemonade
Subscriber
Re: 'If you eat meat, you're a murderer' - A very silly statement.

The main problem with your essay is that you don't properly defend your thesis: meat is not murder. Also, you talk about abusing humans for being cruel yet that would make you cruel. I have a real problem with torture. It is either wrong or it isn't. You condone torture of humans who are cruel. That makes you as complicit in the cycle of violence as the animal abusers. You live in a world where there are innocent and guilty parties. The animals are innocent because they are cognitively incapable of being moral agents with the intent to be cruel. And yet I have seen footage of orcas playing with their food (live seals) for lengthy periods of time--tossing it up in the air, batting it around, before finally putting it out if its misery. All done seemingly for fun--entertainment, pleasure. Should we murder those orcas?
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Re: 'If you eat meat, you're a murderer' - A very silly statement.

Meat eaters are lazy, in the least.
 
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