I started something I couldn't finish: the Smiths reunion that wasn't - The Guardian

A somewhat padded-out interview with Messrs Joyce and Gannon about the recent Classically Smiths debacle.

I started something I couldn't finish: the Smiths reunion that wasn't - The Guardian
Three former members of the indie band were due to reunite for a series of gigs that fell apart as soon as they were announced. Mike Joyce and Craig Gannon explain why they tried to make it happen

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Related item:

• "Classically Smiths" shows no longer going forward - Mike Joyce, Craig Gannon statements on FB - Jan. 23, 2018

 

[Dingoatemybabby]

If the count Dracula is your thing then give them a call.

Actually, Count Dracula IS my thing! Do you have his number?

 

[King Leer]

We started something we couldn't finish that should never have been started because of how it finished the first time.

 

[Dingoatemybabby]

The amount of mindless Mozbot sycophants around here is depressing. Morrissey hates Joyce, so they just have to hate him too. Yet if Morrissey suddenly said in an interview "oh, Mike and I have patched up our differences and are good friends now" they'd all be queuing up to be the first to give Joyce a reach-around. Get some opinions of your own, sheeple.

Excuse me, but I am a mindless Marrbot - get it right! Johnny also considers him "persona non grata".

 

[Roger O]

Cirque d Soleil should have a go. They could have a bunch of closet gay guys with quiffs on trampolines.

 

[Anonymous]

"For those who are destroyed by the collapse of Classical Smiths they should comfort themselves in the knowledge that the last ember of The Smiths is on tour ever so soon." - Morrissey (as Dawn on Twitter) 26 Jan 2018

 

[Peppermint]

The puppet master behind this sudden demise is clearly Marr. Who no doubt threatened to cut off Rourke's royalty stream. Likely the downside of his settling was he signed away his right to represent himself as "The Smiths" or part thereof, in any way. You don't get to live in New York City rent-free.

I do think that's plausible. We all know Johnny to be a regular tweeter but he has maintained stony silence on this.

 

[Peppermint]

I do find the scapegoating of Mike tiresome. People seem to find it convenient to forget that, had he not been broke and forced to accept an early settlement, Andy would have been in court with Mike as joint plaintiff. And having seen Mike win his case, he apparently even took legal advice to see if he could pursue his own case retrospectively. Mike seems like a decent bloke, and remarkably well-adjusted for all the shit he's had thrown his way from sycophantic Morrissey fans. I think he and Andy just wanted what was fair, and I don't blame them.

 

[Anonymous]

We all know Johnny to be a regular tweeter but he has maintained stony silence on this.

It would be a bit rich of Johnny to bemoan any other ex-Smith playing their songs live, when he's done the same thing himself.

If anything Morrissey and Marr should both be upset that this project crashed and burned, as they would have both stood to rake in performance royalties for every song, every night of the tour, without lifting a finger. Morrissey's 5-star hotel existence isn't exactly cheap, you know. He might at least have been able to afford a couple more designer shirts off the back of this.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

I do find the scapegoating of Mike tiresome. People seem to find it convenient to forget that, had he not been broke and forced to accept an early settlement, Andy would have been in court with Mike as joint plaintiff. And having seen Mike win his case, he apparently even took legal advice to see if he could pursue his own case retrospectively. Mike seems like a decent bloke, and remarkably well-adjusted for all the shit he's had thrown his way from sycophantic Morrissey fans. I think he and Andy just wanted what was fair, and I don't blame them.

I agree. The case was so cut and dried in law Morrissey was even denied an appeal. Joyce has access to the law in the same way anyone else does. The outcome was far from certain when they all walked in together.

As for Marr and Joyce clearly there is an enmity towards Joyce. In Set The Boy Free you get a genuine sense of anger not that Joyce won in court but that Marr turned up for a recording session to discover Morrissey had co-opted Joyce and Rourke to his side against Marr.

If anything you do get an indication of the pain Marr felt over that more than over the court case. I got the impression he felt his band had been taken from him by the behind the scenes machinations of Morrissey.

 

[Peppermint]

I agree. The case was so cut and dried in law Morrissey was even denied an appeal. Joyce has access to the law in the same way anyone else does. The outcome was far from certain when they all walked in together.

As for Marr and Joyce clearly there is an enmity towards Joyce. In Set The Boy Free you get a genuine sense of anger not that Joyce won in court but that Marr turned up for a recording session to discover Morrissey had co-opted Joyce and Rourke to his side against Marr.

If anything you do get an indication of the pain Marr felt over that more than over the court case. I got the impression he felt his band had been taken from him by the behind the scenes machinations of Morrissey.

Yes, that was an odd business when you scrutinise it. UncleSkinny posted a theory recently that there was humasexual shenanigans going on between Mike and Morrissey, which, although it explains some things, I find quite hard to swallow (oops).

 

[Flibberty]

As usual it isn't black and white and there are only shades of grey.

Obviously Mike was told that he had a legal case and so it proved as he won. But the idea that he was only looking for what was "fair" seems rather one-sided and ignores quite a lot of the reality of the situation.

And the idea that Johnny is more angry over a recording session 30 years ago than he is for losing a fortune in court? Don't make me laugh...

 

[Orson Swells]

the Smiths’ punishing schedule – five studio albums in five years, plus intense global touring

I can't wait to hear that fifth Smiths studio album.

 

[Anonymous]

One good aspect of this latest sorry debacle is that the depressingly large number of Joyce-bots on this site may finally realise what a desperate, dodgy bloke he truly is. He didn't compose a single note of music in the entire history of the Smiths, and yet here he was, preparing to drum along and soak up all the adulation at these concerts as the orchestra played all of those beautiful compositions, as if they were in any way his doing. Utter twat.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

Saw The Smiths in 1986. Having Craig Gannon in the band on second guitar elevated the band mightily. Freeing Marr, giving him space to operate made them an absolute juggernaut live. And of course, aesthetically they looked amazing in '86...could have conquered America. Morrissey/Marr/Rourke/Joyce/Gannon is the BEST version of The Smiths, hands down.

Gannon seems like a good guy and he still looks great.

 

[Anonymous]

joyce just never has been able to get anything going on his won. hes not a very good drummer, i mean hes had no career outside of the smiths. he was on the dole and was broke and figured hed take the smiths to court where anything flies. he never looked at his statements. LOL.
its called being a schmoozer, for sure, find an angle to live off moz and marr for the rest of his life.
find an angle, like this thing with the fake promoters and the violins.

 

[Peppermint]

It would be a bit rich of Johnny to bemoan any other ex-Smith playing their songs live, when he's done the same thing himself.

If anything Morrissey and Marr should both be upset that this project crashed and burned, as they would have both stood to rake in performance royalties for every song, every night of the tour, without lifting a finger. Morrissey's 5-star hotel existence isn't exactly cheap, you know. He might at least have been able to afford a couple more designer shirts off the back of this.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. But Joyce and Gannon said Andy was fully on board, yet his statement wildly contradicts this. So something doesn't add up. Perhaps Joyce and Gannon made assumptions. Or perhaps it's just that the incompetent organisers failed to get his signature and ploughed on regardless. But something about Andy's absolute, officious statement, distancing himself completely from the project, sounds off to me. It's an odd way to speak about two long-term friends.

 

[Anonymous]

it was never going to happen anyways. moz was going to shut it down. you can cover any song you want as long as you pay, but to make a show of this magnitude, where the whole show is smiths songs and devoted to smiths music requires a license from the songwriters publisher.
one good reason not to have given these schmoozers a piece of songs they never wrote. neither can write themselves out of a paper bag, why should moz and marr work hard making songs and give it away?? as far as i know neither mike or andy has had a touch with anyone.

 

[Anonymous]

I’m quite looking forward to Joyce and Gannon’s Hatful Of Hollow On Ice.

hahaha. Mike call us.

 

[Anonymous]

He was a great drummer who went to court to protect his rights and the law fell in his favour. I don’t see how that necessarily makes him a terrible person.

Not exactly the truth.))

 

[Anonymous]

it was never going to happen anyways. moz was going to shut it down. you can cover any song you want as long as you pay, but to make a show of this magnitude, where the whole show is smiths songs and devoted to smiths music requires a license from the songwriters publisher.

No - you don't. There are about a gazzlions unofficial, unlicensed cover bands and tribute acts out there, some of them doing big shows and earning a lot of money - and none of them need a license. The only possible legal roadblack Morrissey could throw up, is that the promotors could be duping people into thinking it was actually 'The Smiths' performing (ie all four of them), instead of a tribute band. But the promotional material I saw seemed pretty explicit in saying who was in it, so I think it would be a lost cause. He might still chuck a few million at his lawyers to try and throw up some roadblocks and cause a nuisance, but I don't see any realistic probability of him winning a case, at least in the UK.