"How to treat Morrissey? Stop listening to him" by Stewart Lee - The Guardian

Stewart Lee weighs in on Moz

How to treat Morrissey? Stop listening to him - The Guardian
By Stewart Lee
It’s hard when our idols disappoint us. But as it happened, my break from the former Smiths frontman came easily…

43445_david_foldvari_guardian.jpg

Illustration by David Foldvari.
 
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U

URBANUS

Guest
I wonder if Morrissey is feeling a bit crumpled after this article?
Never!

He loves this sort of thing and sees it as a bit of banter which is of course in the great scheme of things. He is purring like a cat snugged up in a corner somewhere.
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
Stop me oh oh oh stop me
stop me from listening to Morrissey again
 
V

vegan.cro spirit# 417

Guest
I am so glad to see that you rated my post funny. I wasn't sure if you had a sense of humor, but I am pleased to see that you do. There has been an increasing sensitization to anything left or right of center these days. It would be interesting to see how a Richard Pryor would be received in today's scrubbed down, homogenized, and sterilized cultural landscape.

Most hatred comes from a basic lack of understanding of others, and comedy shines a light on taboo subjects that often leads to a deeper discussion of the human condition. Viva Comedy! Now you can go back to tearing each others feathers out. ;)

O Jesus F. Christ.doh:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Seems like he's actually let Morrissey go. Although, apparently it is easy to get the two of them confused.

It's funny isn't these people who now 'resemble moz' . When in fact they don't.
Stewart Lee is another robbie williams.. Tries to ape morrissey for years couldn't. Then gets fat and grey and now they get compared to old man moz,. Yet you get the impression they are happy about it.
None looked a thing like the attractive pre 50s moz and none now face wise look like him. But still they take what they can get
It's funny the only time Sammy looks like moz is here and there and that's the old moz as well.
Few look like the young good looking moz
 
A

anonymous

Guest
so, like



had my cup of vodka, thought a lot about all that separating artist from the art and such; and while the ability to do so very much depends on each individual’s tolerance to assholery or plain monstrosity, willingness to overlook shit and so on, i’d say some artists are just more separable from their art then others. like stravinski was kinda fashy, but who cares now? (being long dead helps too)



but when it’s a pop star we’re talking about, often their “self” is as much of their work of art, as their lyrics/music, and they go together in a package deal. some less, some more, for sure, but like morrissey’s oeuvre f***ing is himself, there’s very little that comes outside of the self, that is his f***ing obsessions, personal mythology, body of texts important to him, biographical details, and so on, and he is like an inalienable part of that hypertext. (i’m not btw judging him for what the source of his art is or anything) (also that’s why his stuff sucks so much of late – by early forties anyone would exhaust the self as the sole source of art, but at that point the self is only thing he knows anyway)



and that, i think, is why it might be difficult for some to do the whole separation thing, especially if one becomes morrissey’s fan during their teens/early twenties, when one tends to get attached to music and other shit so very emotionally, probably more so than later, and it ends up, to a degree, shaping who they are (i still listen to much of what i listened to at 14, 18, 23, and while that shit doesnt define me, it's really close), and god have mercy upon the poor f***er who’s into pop music, bc really – the relationship between the pop star and fans is made to feel so, so very personal. bc, like, he totally gets me, man.



so when our boy is being his awful self again, i can very well understand the feeling of betrayal that some have, since their very f***ing personhood was shaped by, well, this. (kids, play it safe and rather listen to that prominent in XII-XVII centuries composer, anonymous, he will never be able to hurt you)



and yeah, he’s no monster, nor is he a fash for reals. (he doesnt understand ideology as a thing that f***ing exists, and so cannot really adopt one)

and shit like being a selfish dick and a misanthrope is not really a moral failing or anything (although his misanthropy is not really like an equal opportunity hate, sooo…). the real magnitude of the m-bomb induced shit storm is like – oh my a dumb celeb has been a giant reactionary piece of shit in public, and a useful idiot to the far-right; why, that sort of thing never happens!



what i think might be giving to some people bigger offense (or rather sense of dread and despair) than the contents of what he says – what, you dont have that delightful relative repeating at you the dumbest hot takes from some f***ing uncuckedtruth dot com, as vile as it gets - it’s just like white noise at this point; but the shocking stupidity of it all. like one has to work hard to f***ing come up with the most f***ing facile, unimaginative and banal shit, as he does. ok, he probably was no socrates back in the day either, but certainly was capable of subtlety, nuance, humour, some cool insights into the human condition etc.



i guess the more optimistic of us should just stop expecting the human mind to be consistent, since we see it’s sooo f***ing not. (although our darling is getting consistently terrible at everything, like the idiot have finally swallowed the savant or sth).



i think a lot of these dumb articles (although stewart lee’s one i do like) are only partly motivated by the necessity to churn out some clickbaity content for middlebrow publications. partly, i do believe, is this legit horror and embarrassment of watching this f***ing spectacle of demise, while unable to turn away.
 

Oh my god. it's Robby!

spontaneously luminescent
so, like



had my cup of vodka, thought a lot about all that separating artist from the art and such; and while the ability to do so very much depends on each individual’s tolerance to assholery or plain monstrosity, willingness to overlook shit and so on, i’d say some artists are just more separable from their art then others. like stravinski was kinda fashy, but who cares now? (being long dead helps too)



but when it’s a pop star we’re talking about, often their “self” is as much of their work of art, as their lyrics/music, and they go together in a package deal. some less, some more, for sure, but like morrissey’s oeuvre f***ing is himself, there’s very little that comes outside of the self, that is his f***ing obsessions, personal mythology, body of texts important to him, biographical details, and so on, and he is like an inalienable part of that hypertext. (i’m not btw judging him for what the source of his art is or anything) (also that’s why his stuff sucks so much of late – by early forties anyone would exhaust the self as the sole source of art, but at that point the self is only thing he knows anyway)



and that, i think, is why it might be difficult for some to do the whole separation thing, especially if one becomes morrissey’s fan during their teens/early twenties, when one tends to get attached to music and other shit so very emotionally, probably more so than later, and it ends up, to a degree, shaping who they are (i still listen to much of what i listened to at 14, 18, 23, and while that shit doesnt define me, it's really close), and god have mercy upon the poor f***er who’s into pop music, bc really – the relationship between the pop star and fans is made to feel so, so very personal. bc, like, he totally gets me, man.



so when our boy is being his awful self again, i can very well understand the feeling of betrayal that some have, since their very f***ing personhood was shaped by, well, this. (kids, play it safe and rather listen to that prominent in XII-XVII centuries composer, anonymous, he will never be able to hurt you)



and yeah, he’s no monster, nor is he a fash for reals. (he doesnt understand ideology as a thing that f***ing exists, and so cannot really adopt one)

and shit like being a selfish dick and a misanthrope is not really a moral failing or anything (although his misanthropy is not really like an equal opportunity hate, sooo…). the real magnitude of the m-bomb induced shit storm is like – oh my a dumb celeb has been a giant reactionary piece of shit in public, and a useful idiot to the far-right; why, that sort of thing never happens!



what i think might be giving to some people bigger offense (or rather sense of dread and despair) than the contents of what he says – what, you dont have that delightful relative repeating at you the dumbest hot takes from some f***ing uncuckedtruth dot com, as vile as it gets - it’s just like white noise at this point; but the shocking stupidity of it all. like one has to work hard to f***ing come up with the most f***ing facile, unimaginative and banal shit, as he does. ok, he probably was no socrates back in the day either, but certainly was capable of subtlety, nuance, humour, some cool insights into the human condition etc.



i guess the more optimistic of us should just stop expecting the human mind to be consistent, since we see it’s sooo f***ing not. (although our darling is getting consistently terrible at everything, like the idiot have finally swallowed the savant or sth).



i think a lot of these dumb articles (although stewart lee’s one i do like) are only partly motivated by the necessity to churn out some clickbaity content for middlebrow publications. partly, i do believe, is this legit horror and embarrassment of watching this f***ing spectacle of demise, while unable to turn away.
Funny thing is, I did mostly turn away then somebody I knew in China sent me a link on Facebook about Moz endorsing these even for the far right, extremists and back down the rabbit hole I went...
 

Qvist

Active Member
Ouch. I love Stewart Lee, and kind of trust his instincts. I thought his ribbing of UKIP a few years back was a rare example of hugely funny political satire, relentlessly demonstrating the absurdity of what they stand for. And he's got good points. Worryingly so, because I really can't bear the thought of doing what he's done, and throw out a body of work that's meant so much to me for so long, or even the Morrissey persona (as we used to know it) that ties all of it together. So I guess I'm in the category he describes in the middle part, who sticks with the music without needing to be proud of the person who made it. Just like I read Hamsun and Pound and Celine and Sartre. But I don't think I'll be much in the market for anything new that he puts out (which has largely been crap anyway, for the past couple of albums).
 

Qvist

Active Member
I don't know who Stewart Lee is. Apparently he's a "centrist dad." Well, heaven save us from centrist dads. I've always found Morrissey to be on the side of the people who don't reproduce, either because they're too hideous and unloveable to find a mate to procreate with, or because they're too misanthropic and don't want to bring another soul into this world to suffer and to cause suffering. "No baby pulled screaming / Out into this seething whirl / By chance or whim / (Or even love)." Centrist dads; how blandly offensive a tribe. Let him get rid of his Morrissey records. Centrist dads, like David Cameron, should be forbidden from liking Morrissey.

You should watch him, rather than attempt to derive who he is from two words. He's on Netflix, if you're in the UK. Very funny.
 

Qvist

Active Member
“Violent Tommy Robinson” - tells you all you need to know about the lack of integrity in this article or many other (unintentionally) fascistic leftists.

Well, at least they avoid the astounding double whammy of choosing to appear in public under the name of "f***face", and not knowing how to spell it.
 

Aubrey McFate

Lonely in Barcelona
You should watch him, rather than attempt to derive who he is from two words. He's on Netflix, if you're in the UK. Very funny.

I watched a clip that was posted earlier on this thread. It wasn't very funny. I'm in the U.S., and one of the few exceptions to my Anglophilia is that I tend to prefer American comedy. Although, Billy Connolly and Ricky Gervais, I would say, are pretty funny. Ricky Gervais: not a dad. His most recent stand-up special has an amusing bit about adoption.
 

Qvist

Active Member
I watched a clip that was posted earlier on this thread. It wasn't very funny. I'm in the U.S., and one of the few exceptions to my Anglophilia is that I tend to prefer American comedy. Although, Billy Connolly and Ricky Gervais, I would say, are pretty funny. Ricky Gervais: not a dad. His most recent stand-up special has an amusing bit about adoption.

Yes, I also like Gervais. Have you tried Dylan Moran? Anyway, if you're inclined to give Lee another chance, this is a great clip. The surreal ending especially.

 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
I watched a clip that was posted earlier on this thread. It wasn't very funny. I'm in the U.S., and one of the few exceptions to my Anglophilia is that I tend to prefer American comedy. Although, Billy Connolly and Ricky Gervais, I would say, are pretty funny. Ricky Gervais: not a dad. His most recent stand-up special has an amusing bit about adoption.

I think Ricky Gervais' strength is in sitcoms plus giving us An Idiot Abroad which is superb, I don't think he's great as an out and out comedian. I think Stewart Lee benefits from watching a full show rather than a clip, none of his stuff would work without it. I think Americans, Canadians and Australians have generally done a stand up comedy show better than us but Stewart Lee has his place, nobody is like him.
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
I think Ricky Gervais' strength is in sitcoms plus giving us An Idiot Abroad which is superb, I don't think he's great as an out and out comedian. I think Stewart Lee benefits from watching a full show rather than a clip, none of his stuff would work without it. I think Americans, Canadians and Australians have generally done a stand up comedy show better than us but Stewart Lee has his place, nobody is like him.
His comedy is better than his music, that's for sure.
 

E Scott

Well-Known Member
I love Colin Hoult's character of Anna Mann. He is able to satirise left wing so brilliantly.


I've seen him live a few times.
 
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