How did Alain become Moz's chief songwriter during The Lad years?

Discussion in 'General Discussion archive 2015 (read-only)' started by MozIsGod, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. MozIsGod

    MozIsGod Active Member

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    Hope some of you guys who really know your stuff about the Lads can contribute some good things! And if you don't have an answer, that's fine too.

    I was just curious as to the songwriting process in the early days when the Lads first appeared on the scene. Pashernate Love and We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful, both Alain compositions, were the first songs displayed from the new group during the Kill Uncle tour. Was Alain handpicked by Moz to be the songwriter for Your Arsenal and its b-sides, being that there were no Boz co-writes during that period until Jack The Ripper at the end of the Arsenal tour? Or did Boz present some demos to Moz around the time and it was just shelved for the Alain stuff? I guess this relates to later albums as well (excluding Vauxhall which Boz contributed nearly half of), but Southpaw Grammar is very lopsided in favor of Alain. Maladjusted and Quarry has some Boz co-writes sprinkled in but Alain still does much of the musical writing.

    I'm very happy Alain did the bulk of the writing (no disrespect to Boz or even Jesse). But I wonder if it was decided in advance that he would be the main songwriter, or perhaps it was just an album-by-album basis where the compositions were up in the air.
     
  2. Banonymous

    Banonymous Guest

    It's really simple. They submit songs. Morrissey chooses. End of story. It's really that simple. If Morrissey likes the song and he thinks it fits for his lyrics, he uses it.

    That's why these dumbies who complain about Jesse or this or that. Everything is approved by Morrissey. Morrissey likes Alain's songwriting. Your welcome and don't ask such stupid questions in the future. Thank you very much.
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I don't think anyone in the band at that time saw themselves as a songwriter at first. Mark E Nevin was the songwriter and they were just the band for the tour. But, during the tour, Alain cottoned on that his way of securing a longer tenure was to start writing songs that Morrissey would want to use. So that's what he did.
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    The simple explanation is that Alain was a lot more prolific in writing and submitting songs to Morrissey than Boz was, especially during the early days.
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Jesse doesn't have many co-writes anyway. I'd hate to see the stuff he's submitted which Morrissey has rejected.
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Yeah its definitely a case-by-case basis. Alain had the most free time back in those days. In fact, competition is recommended in the band. Spencer Cobrin did an interview and said the competition between Alain and Boz was quite fierce in the late 90s. Boz was always pissed that his stuff was never getting released as singles.
     
  7. marred

    marred Member

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    The band was hired to be in the Sing Your Life video and then Mark E. Nevin couldn't make it for the tour so Mozzer asked them to come tour with him.
     
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  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Conversely, it’s interesting to see how Morrissey effectively froze Alain out from single revenue once their relationship hit the skids post-‘Quarry’. Despite still being responsible for loads of co-writes on both ‘Ringleader’ and ‘Years of Refusal’, there’s a sudden whopping run of 7 singles (‘You Have Killed Me’ to ‘I’m Throwing My Arms Around Paris’) which are all either Jesse or Boz songs. It’s only right at the last gasp, when no-one really cares anymore, that Alain finally gets another single A-side in ‘Something is Squeezing My Skull’, which creeps into the charts at a lowly number 46. There’s no way to my mind that this wasn’t deliberate on Morrissey’s part. All of a sudden Jesse was the Golden Boy, and Alain was a bad smell in the attic that was slowly but surely crowbarred away from the action.
     
  9. MozIsGod

    MozIsGod Active Member

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    I think it was quite deliberate. Morrissey was defensive around the Ringleader tour when he expressed his frustration with Solo via TTY. Most fans were upset regarding the treatment Alain received (taking a backseat to Jesse and Boz playing-wise on Ringleader, not asked to join the live tour, told to be a drummer on the album's music videos, etc.) and Morrissey immediately lashed out at fans saying there was "no replacing." Turns out only two years later when recordings begin for Refusal in late 2007/early 2008, Alain is rejected at the door and shown his pink slip. I forgot "Skull" was released as a single; little did we know at the time it would be the final Morrissey/Whyte single ever released.
     
  10. Raphael Lambach

    Raphael Lambach Well-Known Member

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    Of course Alain wrote more songs and singles but I think Boz composition are more careful done - Now my heart is full, The More you..., Jack the ripper, Paris et ali.
     
  11. Jamie

    Jamie Bluff, Ardour & Assoc.

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    I don't see a "conspiracy" on the singles front. Probably the only song viable as a single Alain contributed to ROTT was "I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now." I don't know how the structures have changed, but, back in the Sixties, having a song on a B-side yielded just as much mechanical royalty. Of course the A-side would receive more radio plays...but not many, since this is Morrissey.

    However, relegating Alain to the drummer in two of the videos, especially given Morrissey's historic revolving door at the drums throughout his career, was a backhanded inclusion at best.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I think some people need a history lesson on this. Morrissey's big comeback year, 2004, we're going into the Meltdown Festival, and Alain finds he needs a break. Now, I'm not going to speculate on what exactly happenned to Alain, but fact is that it left Morrissey in a difficult spot at the worst time possible. Little Barrie was limp and looked out of place as stand-in. Say what you like about Jesse, but he hasn't flaked out on Moz once, and that counts for much.
     
  13. Young And Alive

    Young And Alive Senior Member

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    Quite simply, he wrote the best songs.

    He is the most talented musician Morrissey has worked with since Johnny Marr.

    He's been a great loss to team Morrissey for several years now. The live shows really miss his presence, as do the albums.

    I would love to see him re-join the band again eventually along with Gary Day, although I accept there is zero chance of this.
     
  14. MozIsGod

    MozIsGod Active Member

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    You're probably right about that. Perhaps "Ganglord" would have made an interesting choice too, as I know Moz was playing it quite heavily even before the song was officially released in summer of 06.
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Needs a break, or was told to leave the touring band by Morrissey? Let's face it, we've never had an official explanation from either Moz or Alain as to what happened, but according to the rumours I've heard floating around, Alain was told before the show in Dublin that he was out of the band, and that was his last show - same as when he was kicked out of the Years of Refusal recording session.

    Either way, yes - it's all rumours - but in light of that, I don't think we can automatically paint Alain as the one who voluntarily buggered off and left Moz in the lurch.
     
  16. MozIsGod

    MozIsGod Active Member

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    Here is an old interview with Alain in early 2009 after Refusal hit the store shelves. As usual, Alain demonstrates the highest class and praises Morrissey's 'musical maturity' with that record. Hard to believe their partnership had already reached its limit by then, but kudos to Alain for always staying positive and professional regarding his time with Morrissey. I also believe Moz praised Alain as well in his Maladjusted reissue liner notes in that same year. Maybe time will heal all wounds.

    http://buzzbands.la/2009/02/17/alain-whyte-one-of-morrisseys-music-men/
     
  17. !Viva Hate!

    !Viva Hate! The Queen of Solo

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    In other words, Boz only wrote a few good songs 20 years ago...

    And then he called him an idiot multiple times in Biography...so, probably not.
     
  18. MozIsGod

    MozIsGod Active Member

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    Which really tells you a lot about Morrissey's character. I can't ever imagine Alain being hostile to, or even insulting, Morrissey at all. Alain's always been a class act.
     
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