Hindley and The Smiths: art vs artifice

Found this article in the Guardian today and the reference to Suffer Little Children reminded how, at one point, Morrissey was capable of really connecting emotionally with others and could show kindness, warmth and compassion.

T-shirts with Myra Hindley on them? Modern art has forgotten how to care
by Jonathan Jones - The Guardian

Excerpt:

When The Smiths released Suffer Little Children, their song about the Moors Murders, they too were criticised for exploiting tragedy. And yet Morrissey’s lyrics do what images of Hindley cannot do, however clever the artistic manipulations of her photograph may or may not be. Morrissey imagines the ghosts of the murdered children speaking to their killers. His Hindley is a woman in hell, haunted by the innocents she helped to slaughter. Reading Morrissey’s words again after all these years reminds me that art can be compassionate: “We may be dead and we may be gone/ But we will be, we will be, we will be, right by your side/ Until the day you die.”

521.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ah i love that song too! nope, that's the first time i've ever heard it, so thank you for that. morrissey may be the only person whose music i love right away. for everyone else it takes me a long while to warm up to them.

your uniform sounds like my current uniform! i am a fan of the black shirt and jeans, either blue jeans or black jeans. but it's not a uniform im committed to. i feel like even though i like t-shirts and jeans just fine, a well-thought out uniform should require more commitment, should be a bit less common. ultimately jeans dont really convey that much (and while for some reason it seems perfectly acceptable to me to wear the same skirt and t-shirt every day, to wear the same jeans and t-shirt just seems too far-fetched, too bordering on the habits of depressed people, because surely one can at least change their shirt? but then of course, if they did, it would ruin the whole concept of it being a uniform). the skirt in the first picture is simple, but it conveys what is important to me: which is simplicity, yes, and also a carefree insouciance, a girlishness without femininity. when i first saw the skirt, and which is what made me buy it, it reminded me of a skirt a modern-day cinderella might wear when going about her household chores. but to me it also has the look, as most rhie clothing does in my opinion, of something an eccentric young heiress would wear on her country estate on days when she is left to devise her own amusements.
it is a bit interesting to me too, now that you mention it, that i find my ultimate self would be a skirt wearing one, because i rarely ever do wear skirts. and yet, when i was little thats all i would wear. i had a skirt that my parents would call my "hippie skirt" (because it was loose flowing with a floral pattern), and i insisted on wearing it everyday; even on those days when i had to wear pants for whatever reason i would pull the skirt on over top, because i was never fully dressed without that skirt. so it's interesting to note that as a child i favoured the idea of uniform and felt that one skirt would suffice for all days and all occasions, so maybe this idea of finding my ultimate self is to be founding in going back to my roots as a child.
i would also like to emphasize how important to the concept of uniform a great coat is (margot tennenbaum had her fur coat, though i would never wear real fur). a great coat is essential regardless of what one is wearing under it. and i could even see committing to a t-shirt and jeans uniform so long as i had a great coat. coats are very important to me in general, not just for a uniform, because they represent a certain constancy. the reason why this is important to me is i think because i have trouble formulating in my head a concept of my physical space when im not looking in a mirror. like when i take an eye off myself anything might happen: i might spill out all over the place, shape shift, turn into a cyclops, who knows. coats-- more solid, more constant, more real than i am--seem like a way to keep my perimeters in check, to reinforce the boundaries of my person, keeping me in and the rest of the world out. they are like a life raft keeping me afloat in the physical world, keeping the grey swirling mass of unreality that is me from drowning in the grey swirling mass of unreality that is the universe. (by now, you're probably under the impression that i can take anything that is meant to be fun and turn it into a horrifying extension of my own neurosis :p )

your thoughts on angles and shapes are so interesting! i think i get it. on a similar, i think, note, im really interested in concepts of space as a way of wordlessly impressing the intellect onto the pictorial world. for example i really like certain pieces of modern art that have do with space-- large incomprehensible squares of metal painted red or whatever--of which no meaning can be found in the thing itself, but, rather, meaning is to be found in the space around it, the way the object influences that space.

living life as art... well i think you can do that either passively or actively. passively by becoming more perceptive or more aware. something as simple as changing your perspective, seeing in a new way--like what you are talking about-- can imbue life with a sense of it being art. i feel like watching movies help me to see life as art. sometimes it happens that after watching a movie i feel like i have that cameras frame in my head, like im viewing things from above, like i have become the character in that frame. or sometimes i feel infused by the mood of the movie. it lends me a certain sense of objective awareness as well, like i become more aware of my own mannerisms, my own facial expressions, the sound of my footfalls on streets, the buzz of streetlamps, things like that, and all of these things takes on a new significance (regardless of what uninteresting thing i may be doing). it is often little things which to me makes life artistic, but we have to be aware of them. which is why i love a writer like milan kundera, who wrote about 'the meaningful moment', and who would place great emphasis on a mannerism or facial expression of one of his characters, devoting paragraphs to the description of it and the effect it has on someone else--how, for example, a man seeing his lover blink ruined her for him, made him stop loving her--while at the same time making only a brief offhand mention of what the character does for a living or the fact that the couple in question is to later die in a car accident, these things being seemingly less important than the blinking of a persons eye. so as a passive observer you can view life as art (and of course it helps if you see yourself as a character in it and dress for the part). unless you're an artist or a person who has a lot of torrid love affairs or can afford to live very grandly, eschewing all the pederstrian things of life, it's a bit harder to actively live life as art. but for me i think it has to do with the experience of emotions. i feel this rather faustian desire to feel all emotions, even the most abject ones, often thinking that i would like to be a vagabond because this would be a sure way to experience new emotions (as well as new spaces; as well as be able to play around with identities; as well as having more chance of finding meaningful moments). a while ago i locked myself out of my house, and it was the one time the hungarians werent at home, and having a rather delicate equanimity, i got extremely annoyed and frustrated because i had things to do and had to be at work soon, and didnt have access to a phone and could do nothing but wait for the hungarians to come home. at first i tried to macgyver my way in using bits of metal that i found in the garage (muttering swears to myself as i went back and forth), but found that alas, i am not macgyver, and there was nothing to be done. so i sat on the stairs and waited, and wrote a letter to a friend on a piece of paper that i had found in my pocket, as you do when you have locked yourself out and it's raining and the stupid hungarians are out gallivanting around, buying sausage and paprika or whatever they do. and during that time i was overcome by a sense of peace, and realized that i had enjoyed that little burst of emotion, however maddening it had seemed, and i was grateful that i had locked my keys out. it was such a simple everyday occurence, nothing to write home about, but i felt like life had been framed in that moment, that i was viewing myself as if from above, a character in a movie. on a much grander scale, one of my favourite examples of living life as art is the marchesa luisa casati, have you heard of her? in fact her motto was "i want to be a living work of art", and in that she succeeded. she was said to have walked her cheetahs along the canals of venice clad in nothing but a fur coat. at a dinner party she once wore live snakes around her neck. she also used to put the poisonous bella donna in her eyes to make them bigger. near the end of her life, old and penniless, she was often seen rummaging through garbage bins looking for feathers to put in her hair. i think this last tragic note makes her life that much more artistic; for someone wanting to be a living work of art, it really could not have been otherwise.

well that was long and boring. sorry about that. i promise it could not be helped!

Why no, not boring at all. In fact quite the opposite. Where else could I be introduced to the wonderful Marchesa Luisa Casati. "I want to be a living work of art", are true words of inspiration and wisdom. I think I have some serious thinking to do about my uniform . Yes, I do think that a coat is important to a uniform. It actually provides a link back to childhood. I can remember as a child that almost every year, it would be a big deal to get a new winter coat. The combination of growth spurts and hard play, means I would need a new coat every year. The coat would identify me. You could tell who someone was at a distance, because you recognized their coat. I can remember how cool it was to have inside pockets on a coat. I could hide candy in my inside pockets. One winter coat that comes to mind, was burgundy with a grey and white pattern by the shoulders, it also had sleeves that could zip off and the coat turned into a vest. I could zip off the sleeves and pretend I was in some kind of gang.

I love watching movies, but sadly I almost never go to theaters anymore. Still there's something about escaping into a dark theater for a few hours and emerging revitalized. Life seems more interesting, more vibrant. I can feel a kind of confidence or enhancement. I still get the same feeling watching movies at home, but in the theater there is that little something extra. One of the best things to do after a good movie is to take a walk and just look around and feel that heightened sense of awareness. The last movie I can remember seeing twice in the theater, was Tree Of Life. I think the movie is a landmark in cinema and watched it in awe, but after both viewings, I can remember taking hour long walks, feeling so inspired and refreshed, like I'd been given some kind of answer.
 
Unfortunately, since I don't have cable, I don't get to watch chanel 5, but people do tell me that in has some terrific shows.

Good god, thats fox here. I pity your people now. I dont have cabel either. Welcome to the year two thousand ten I guess
 
Why no, not boring at all. In fact quite the opposite. Where else could I be introduced to the wonderful Marchesa Luisa Casati. "I want to be a living work of art", are true words of inspiration and wisdom. I think I have some serious thinking to do about my uniform . Yes, I do think that a coat is important to a uniform. It actually provides a link back to childhood. I can remember as a child that almost every year, it would be a big deal to get a new winter coat. The combination of growth spurts and hard play, means I would need a new coat every year. The coat would identify me. You could tell who someone was at a distance, because you recognized their coat. I can remember how cool it was to have inside pockets on a coat. I could hide candy in my inside pockets. One winter coat that comes to mind, was burgundy with a grey and white pattern by the shoulders, it also had sleeves that could zip off and the coat turned into a vest. I could zip off the sleeves and pretend I was in some kind of gang.

I love watching movies, but sadly I almost never go to theaters anymore. Still there's something about escaping into a dark theater for a few hours and emerging revitalized. Life seems more interesting, more vibrant. I can feel a kind of confidence or enhancement. I still get the same feeling watching movies at home, but in the theater there is that little something extra. One of the best things to do after a good movie is to take a walk and just look around and feel that heightened sense of awareness. The last movie I can remember seeing twice in the theater, was Tree Of Life. I think the movie is a landmark in cinema and watched it in awe, but after both viewings, I can remember taking hour long walks, feeling so inspired and refreshed, like I'd been given some kind of answer.
as an older child i was rather indifferent to clothing. clothes that you could get from malls or whereever had absolutely no interest for me, and, unlike my sister, i never cared about what the people at school thought about what i wore. i remember even wearing the same coat for years. it was when i read this book called "the power of style" that featured such grand dames as mona, countess von bismarck, gloria guiness, elsie de wolfe, diana vreeland, that i developed an interest in clothing, seeing it in a new way. because even now i could give a f*** about trends. i think also part of the intensity of my obsession is that i dont want to be accused of not caring. my mom, who was very interested in appearances, would always act like there was something wrong with me for not caring, and i was made aware that not caring about appearances carried with it all sorts of grim implications. but even now i vacillate wildly between caring intensely (about the artistic side of it), and not giving a f***.

i never really go to theatres either. i always mean to. i always mean to do a lot of things--sit in cafes and pretend to write, go to the opera, feed ducks, spend time amongst flowers and trees--which i never actually do. i have no quality of life :p

yes, "that heightened sense of awareness". i always wish it could stay with you, not fade, as it seems to do for me, a day or two afterward. i've never heard of tree of life, is it new or a classic or what?

- - - Updated - - -

There is an absurdity to the whole thing. Gisele wearing a beret and shouting Che! is embarrassing, but she probably doesn't even realize it and possibly thinks she's paying tribute to the Cuban people.

i must admit i think gisele's dumb as f***, but also, because of that, cute as hell :p
 
does chanel owe them food and freedom? chanel is doing what it does. spreading around frivolity. why is that such a bad position to take ?

i quote phyllis rose from her essay "tools of torture: an essay on beauty and pain". she is making reference to torture and the attitudes and political climes that perpetuate it, but i think the torture concept could be substituted with any situation that has become too gravely steeped in the political and her theory would still hold true:

many people who wouldn't hurt a fly have annexed to fashion the imagery of torture--the thongs and spikes and metal studs--hence reducing it to the frivolous and the transitory. Because torture has been in the mainstream and not on the margins of history, nothing could be healthier. For torture to be merely kinky would be a big advance. Exhibitions like the one i saw in Paris
[on torture], which presented itself as educational, may be guilty of pandering to the tastes they deplore. Solemnity may be the wrong tone. If taking one's goals too seriously is the danger, the best discouragement of torture may be a radical hedonism that denies that any goal is worth the means, that refuses to allow the nobly abstract to seduce us from the sweetness of the concrete. Give people a good croissant and a good cup of coffee in the morning. Give them an occasional facial and a plate of escargots. Marie Antoinette picked a bad moment to say "Let them eat cake," but I've often thought she was on the right track.

and

Paris is civillizations reminder to itself that nothing leads you less wrong than your awareness of your own pleasure and a genial desire to spread it around

I dont see how a little chanel could hurt cuba

What can I say? If you tell me you don't see I believe you. There are a lot of people who suffer this kind of selective blindness. Surely I can't see a lot of things that you can see. I guess mine is another kind of selective blindness. And we all different people with different blindness live in the same world. We walk maybe by the same road and we can't see each other, because we are in different alternative realities. Our senses are born or trained to pay attention to different things (The repetitive use of the word different is not a coincidence). These differences shouldn't be eliminated, because they make life richer and more complex. But we should make a little effort trying to see the world from different points of view. Or walking in other people's shoes. Why? Ideally, because of kindness and compassion. Or, as Marie Antoinette and her friends should have noticed, because of personal safety.
 
There is an absurdity to the whole thing. Gisele wearing a beret and shouting Che! is embarrassing, but she probably doesn't even realize it and possibly thinks she's paying tribute to the Cuban people.

Yes, it's absurd.
 
What can I say? If you tell me you don't see I believe you. There are a lot of people who suffer this kind of selective blindness. Surely I can't see a lot of things that you can see. I guess mine is another kind of selective blindness. And we all different people with different blindness live in the same world. We walk maybe by the same road and we can't see each other, because we are in different alternative realities. Our senses are born or trained to pay attention to different things (The repetitive use of the word different is not a coincidence). These differences shouldn't be eliminated, because they make life richer and more complex. But we should make a little effort trying to see the world from different points of view. Or walking in other people's shoes. Why? Ideally, because of kindness and compassion. Or, as Marie Antoinette and her friends should have noticed, because of personal safety.
Nothing is important, so people, realising that, should get on with their lives, go mad, take their clothes off, jump in the canal, jump into one of those supermarket trolleys, race around the supermarket and steal Mars bars and kiss kittens.

and run around in a beret in cuba calling everyone che in an adorable brazillian accent

apologies to morrissey who may be horrified at my appropriating his wonderful quote in such a way--because i doubt if he would agree with me here--but i find it to be of a fitting spirit

and really i think that it is about spirit. chanel has a wonderful spirit--of "lets play, lets have a good time, how beautiful life can be". it may seem a bit jarring to the everyday cuban whose life is not about that, and may never be about that, but i see nothing wrong with the infusion into their lives with a bit of that spirit. what harm is it going to do? you said in another thread that happiness was a nice dream. well isnt it?
i also see nothing wrong with a little contrast, juxtaposition, and yes, absurdity (in fact, im a big fan of absurdity). and i see nothing wrong with the existence of artistic communities unto themselves whose purpose is not to sympathize or to be realistic but to uphold their own vision of life, regardless of the circumstance of people around them. it always baffles me that ordinary people think that they are expected to take some position on the fashion industry. really, they're not. it's an artistic community that has very little to do with people who are not involved in it (and just as, in my opinion--which is right--it is not arts job to relate, it's also not chanels place to sympathize or to see from the point of view of the gutter). just let it be, let it do it's own thing. the only way i can see the fashion industry being worthy of anyones attention is if they enjoy it and find some sort of meaning in it and are able to take something of value from it. if it bothers someone, they need just ignore it, which should be easy enough since it's not embroiled with most peoples lives whatsoever (except in their minds). there something to be said for empathy and compassion, yes, but, frankly, i think there's also something to be said for not being a wet blanket. the world is a serious enough place.

that said, im not meaning to offend you, because i think you're admirably smart and wise and have a great perspective on things.
 
Nothing is important, so people, realising that, should get on with their lives, go mad, take their clothes off, jump in the canal, jump into one of those supermarket trolleys, race around the supermarket and steal Mars bars and kiss kittens.

and run around in a beret in cuba calling everyone che in an adorable brazillian accent

apologies to morrissey who may be horrified at my appropriating his wonderful quote in such a way--because i doubt if he would agree with me here--but i find it to be of a fitting spirit

and really i think that it is about spirit. chanel has a wonderful spirit--of "lets play, lets have a good time, how beautiful life can be". it may seem a bit jarring to the everyday cuban whose life is not about that, and may never be about that, but i see nothing wrong with the infusion into their lives with a bit of that spirit. what harm is it going to do? you said in another thread that happiness was a nice dream. well isnt it?
i also see nothing wrong with a little contrast, juxtaposition, and yes, absurdity (in fact, im a big fan of absurdity). and i see nothing wrong with the existence of artistic communities unto themselves whose purpose is not to sympathize or to be realistic but to uphold their own vision of life, regardless of the circumstance of people around them. it always baffles me that ordinary people think that they are expected to take some position on the fashion industry. really, they're not. it's an artistic community that has very little to do with people who are not involved in it (and just as, in my opinion--which is right--it is not arts job to relate, it's also not chanels place to sympathize or to see from the point of view of the gutter). just let it be, let it do it's own thing. the only way i can see the fashion industry being worthy of anyones attention is if they enjoy it and find some sort of meaning in it and are able to take something of value from it. if it bothers someone, they need just ignore it, which should be easy enough since it's not embroiled with most peoples lives whatsoever (except in their minds). there something to be said for empathy and compassion, yes, but, frankly, i think there's also something to be said for not being a wet blanket. the world is a serious enough place.

that said, im not meaning to offend you, because i think you're admirably smart and wise and have a great perspective on things.

Not offended at all, I think the same about you :) Maybe I didn't know how to communicate my feelings towards that event. I like fashion. A lot. When I was (very) young I did some modeling for fun in charity events and that was nice. But that doesn't mean I have to support, for example, the use of animal furs by fashion designers. Or a fashion show made in a territory where people is being held captive by pseudo revolutionary criminals. I know that sometimes moral boundaries are not clear, but they seem pretty clear here.
 
Not offended at all, I think the same about you :) Maybe I didn't know how to communicate my feelings towards that event. I like fashion. A lot. When I was (very) young I did some modeling for fun in charity events and that was nice. But that doesn't mean I have to support, for example, the use of animal furs by fashion designers. Or a fashion show made in a territory where people is being held captive by pseudo revolutionary criminals. I know that sometimes moral boundaries are not clear, but they seem pretty clear here.
well admittedly i dont know much about the cuban situation. im not political at all. i always wish i were and could be taken seriously for my astute views in political conversations, but that's just not me. so i take up defence of things that appeal to my sense of whimsy instead. :p
 
as an older child i was rather indifferent to clothing. clothes that you could get from malls or whereever had absolutely no interest for me, and, unlike my sister, i never cared about what the people at school thought about what i wore. i remember even wearing the same coat for years. it was when i read this book called "the power of style" that featured such grand dames as mona, countess von bismarck, gloria guiness, elsie de wolfe, diana vreeland, that i developed an interest in clothing, seeing it in a new way. because even now i could give a f*** about trends. i think also part of the intensity of my obsession is that i dont want to be accused of not caring. my mom, who was very interested in appearances, would always act like there was something wrong with me for not caring, and i was made aware that not caring about appearances carried with it all sorts of grim implications. but even now i vacillate wildly between caring intensely (about the artistic side of it), and not giving a f***.

i never really go to theatres either. i always mean to. i always mean to do a lot of things--sit in cafes and pretend to write, go to the opera, feed ducks, spend time amongst flowers and trees--which i never actually do. i have no quality of life :p

yes, "that heightened sense of awareness". i always wish it could stay with you, not fade, as it seems to do for me, a day or two afterward. i've never heard of tree of life, is it new or a classic or what?

- - - Updated - - -



i must admit i think gisele's dumb as f***, but also, because of that, cute as hell :p


It sounds like discovering The Power Of Style was kind of profound for you. How did you happen upon it? Expectations of appearance were never something I ever accepted. I've always been more into feeling comfortable. Not that I really do anything radical to confound expectations, but even the slightest things can freak people out. Especially Moms. It's far worse for gals I know. I've never been into trends either. In hindsight they almost always look ridiculous. There is one weird trend I've noticed lately, if it is a trend. I've noticed hipster kids walking around with miniature skateboards. They just hold them in their hands and walk around. Little plastic skateboards, maybe a third of the size of a regular skateboard. It's like an accessory or something. I never see them riding the boards and they don't look like people who skate. It's not rampant, but every once in awhile I see it. Well, what do I know, it's just an observation.

One of my biggest qualities of life is just taking a walk. I try to every day, even when it's cold. I can listen to music and just look around. Plus, they say walking is the best form of medicine. Well someone said that. One of the ancient Greeks I think.

Well the Tree Of Life to me was a landmark in cinema, because it has an original style to it. It came out maybe seven or eight years ago. A little back story on it, is that the director Terrance Malik, directed two movies it the 1970's and then disappeared for twenty years. He's very reclusive and doesn't give interviews, but someone tracked his sister down during the hiatus and asked her what Terrance was up to, and she said something like "he's actually very busy, he likes to take long walks and look at birds." I always liked that. What I guess he was also doing, was writing scripts and one of them was Tree Of Life. It ended up being the second film he directed when he started making films again and what he tried to do, I think, is attempt to answer the question of existence. It's not really trying to tell a story using a narrative, but trying to tell a story by evoking emotion. Dialogue comes in bursts and whispers. Moments rather than scenes. The camera sweeps around and zooms in close and zooms out wide. There's themes of nature vs. grace, masculine vs. feminine, understanding vs. the unknown, evolution vs. creationism and how they affect life and death. The grandest part, is that about twenty minutes into the film, there's a sequence that tries to explain how the world was created. It's really a remarkable thing to watch and also for Terrance to have attempted. I read reviews of the film, and critics didn't know what to make of it, some even ridiculed a part where dinosaurs appear for a few scenes. They talked only about dinosaurs and failed to mention that the scene shows possibly the birth of consciousness. I've met few people who share my enthusiasm, but those who do, really love it. I can remember telling my sister that she had to go see it. Instead she went and saw some Woody Allen film about Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald in Paris. I told her that if she listened to me and went to see Tree Of Life, it would have been like reading The Sun Also Rises, when it was first published. Then again, what do I know, but you asked and I told, ...you poor bastard you.
 
Last edited:
It sounds like discovering The Power Of Style was kind of profound for you. How did you happen upon it? Expectations of appearance were never something I ever accepted. I've always been more into feeling comfortable. Not that I really do anything radical to confound expectations, but even the slightest things can freak people out. Especially Moms. It's far worse for gals I know. I've never been into trends either. In hindsight they almost always look ridiculous. There is one weird trend I've noticed lately, if it is a trend. I've noticed hipster kids walking around with miniature skateboards. They just hold them in their hands and walk around. Little plastic skateboards, maybe a third of the size of a regular skateboard. It's like an accessory or something. I never see them riding the boards and they don't look like people who skate. It's not rampant, but every once in awhile I see it. Well, what do I know, it's just an observation.

One of my biggest qualities of life is just taking a walk. I try to every day, even when it's cold. I can listen to music and just look around. Plus, they say walking is the best form of medicine. Well someone said that. One of the ancient Greeks I think.

Well the Tree Of Life to me was a landmark in cinema, because it has an original style to it. It came out maybe seven or eight years ago. A little back story on it, is that the director Terrance Malik, directed two movies it the 1970's and then disappeared for twenty years. He's very reclusive and doesn't give interviews, but someone tracked his sister down during the hiatus and asked her what Terrance was up to, and she said something like "he's actually very busy, he likes to take long walks and look at birds." I always liked that. What I guess he was also doing, was writing scripts and one of them was Tree Of Life. It ended up being the second film he directed when he started making films again and what he tried to do, I think, is attempt to answer the question of existence. It's not really trying to tell a story using a narrative, but trying to tell a story by evoking emotion. Dialogue comes in bursts and whispers. Moments rather than scenes. The camera sweeps around and zooms in close and zooms out wide. There's themes of nature vs. grace, masculine vs. feminine, understanding vs. the unknown, evolution vs. creationism and how they affect life and death. The grandest part, is that about twenty minutes into the film, there's a sequence that tries to explain how the world was created. It's really a remarkable thing to watch and also for Terrance to have attempted. I read reviews of the film, and critics didn't know what to make of it, some even ridiculed a part where dinosaurs appear for a few scenes. They talked only about dinosaurs and failed to mention that the scene shows possibly the birth of consciousness. I've met few people who share my enthusiasm, but those who do, really love it. I can remember telling my sister that she had to go see it. Instead she went and saw some Woody Allen film about Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald in Paris. I told her that if she listened to me and went to see Tree Of Life, it would have been like reading The Sun Also Rises, when it was first published. Then again, what do I know, but you asked and I told, ...you poor bastard you.
haha not at all, sounds like a great movie. at least the way you described it. i shall have to watch it and let you know what i think. although im not that articulate when it comes to what i like about movies. oh do you mean the woody allen movie midnight in paris? god, what a terrible movie. i dont think i've ever been so disgusted by a movie just on the basis of it being terrible. she probably should've listened to you.

how did i happen upon the power of style? well it was i think because jackie kennedy was one of the numerous women featured in it and i was really into jackie kennedy (i was a weird kid--goes without saying. once when i was like 11 i bought a book that listed items from her estate that had gone to auction, and it was my summer reading, i took it everywhere, lol). the thing i liked about the women featured in it was that they created their own worlds, played by their own rules. style for them was not about clothing or furnishings, it was the element in which they lived. i have not noticed the little plastic skateboard trend! then again, there arent that many hipsters around here. a few, but not many. is it a big thing where you live? i often think of carrying around autobiography with me everywhere i go just as an accessory. it's got such a great cover. and i would be endlessly proud to be seen in association with anything by morrissey. <3

yes, i walk every day as well. i have to whether i want to or not since i dont drive (i mean, i can drive, i know how--well that's debatable, actually-- i just hate driving, especially in the city), and i refuse to take the bus. so i walk every where, but i also enjoy it too, the feeling of all your parts being harmony, working together, the smooth continuity of it all. the glide of the foot as it rotates from heel to toe and then pushes off is a very satisfying thing. i prefer walking in the cold than the heat though, even the extreme cold. i always hope to catch a chill that never goes away, but i never do. it never gets very cold here :( (i always thought my preferred method of dying would be to freeze to death but only whilst wearing a dickensian style coat!)
 
well before i went to a morrissey forum i probably would've expected to find an abundance of kindred spirits at one, or at least people with whom one could have convivial conversations and with a few exceptions i have been disappointed. which is okay, because im not hung up on the idea of kindred spirits. i do think water is great though, and i hope i havent been boring him (or is it her?) to tears by availing myself of his amiability in order to shamelessly go on and on and on as i do--as i always do when occasion allows.

ugh, i've been reading vanity fair and i feel like im talking like a 19th century person again. i hate when that happens. it's like a glitch in my brain.
 
haha not at all, sounds like a great movie. at least the way you described it. i shall have to watch it and let you know what i think. although im not that articulate when it comes to what i like about movies. oh do you mean the woody allen movie midnight in paris? god, what a terrible movie. i dont think i've ever been so disgusted by a movie just on the basis of it being terrible. she probably should've listened to you.

how did i happen upon the power of style? well it was i think because jackie kennedy was one of the numerous women featured in it and i was really into jackie kennedy (i was a weird kid--goes without saying. once when i was like 11 i bought a book that listed items from her estate that had gone to auction, and it was my summer reading, i took it everywhere, lol). the thing i liked about the women featured in it was that they created their own worlds, played by their own rules. style for them was not about clothing or furnishings, it was the element in which they lived. i have not noticed the little plastic skateboard trend! then again, there arent that many hipsters around here. a few, but not many. is it a big thing where you live? i often think of carrying around autobiography with me everywhere i go just as an accessory. it's got such a great cover. and i would be endlessly proud to be seen in association with anything by morrissey. <3

yes, i walk every day as well. i have to whether i want to or not since i dont drive (i mean, i can drive, i know how--well that's debatable, actually-- i just hate driving, especially in the city), and i refuse to take the bus. so i walk every where, but i also enjoy it too, the feeling of all your parts being harmony, working together, the smooth continuity of it all. the glide of the foot as it rotates from heel to toe and then pushes off is a very satisfying thing. i prefer walking in the cold than the heat though, even the extreme cold. i always hope to catch a chill that never goes away, but i never do. it never gets very cold here :( (i always thought my preferred method of dying would be to freeze to death but only whilst wearing a dickensian style coat!)

I really don't feel like I'm that articulate about movies either, it just happens I had alot to say about Tree Of Life. One thing I forgot to mention is that the visual sequence where he shows the world being formed, is only matched in my opinion by the sequence at the end of 2001 Space Odyssey, when the guy travels through space and time. I don't know too much about Jackie Kennedy, but I always liked that line in JFK, where the guy goes, "She had impeccable style." I find the idea of creating their own world and living by their own rules to be very inspiring. A prime example of living life as art. The weirdness of you carrying that auction book around is also very inspiring, but I can't say exactly why. I just like the image of it. I was hoping you would know if the miniature skateboard thing is a trend. I don't see it every day or even every week, but I've seen it enough times that it begs an explanation. Carrying around autobiography sounds like a fun idea, but then again, if some of the people on this site are any indication, you might have people walking up to you and randomly criticizing Morrissey. There was a period of about four years, when I didn't have a car and it was very enjoyable to have to walk everywhere. Something about the limitations of not having a car is very freeing. However, I had to by a car again, but find myself driving way less then I used to. You can have the cold. Living in an igloo sounds very romantic, but trust me it isn't. It's great talking to you also, but it's kind of strange being randomly discussed on this site. Still, if that's the price to pay, I don't mind.
 
I really don't feel like I'm that articulate about movies either, it just happens I had alot to say about Tree Of Life. One thing I forgot to mention is that the visual sequence where he shows the world being formed, is only matched in my opinion by the sequence at the end of 2001 Space Odyssey, when the guy travels through space and time. I don't know too much about Jackie Kennedy, but I always liked that line in JFK, where the guy goes, "She had impeccable style." I find the idea of creating their own world and living by their own rules to be very inspiring. A prime example of living life as art. The weirdness of you carrying that auction book around is also very inspiring, but I can't say exactly why. I just like the image of it. I was hoping you would know if the miniature skateboard thing is a trend. I don't see it every day or even every week, but I've seen it enough times that it begs an explanation. Carrying around autobiography sounds like a fun idea, but then again, if some of the people on this site are any indication, you might have people walking up to you and randomly criticizing Morrissey. There was a period of about four years, when I didn't have a car and it was very enjoyable to have to walk everywhere. Something about the limitations of not having a car is very freeing. However, I had to by a car again, but find myself driving way less then I used to. You can have the cold. Living in an igloo sounds very romantic, but trust me it isn't. It's great talking to you also, but it's kind of strange being randomly discussed on this site. Still, if that's the price to pay, I don't mind.

yes, i suppose it's weird. sorry about that. i find that if i think about it too much i find posting at a message board in general to be a bit weird. (intellectually, i dont think it actually is weird though, it just feels that way)
so anyway i watched tree of life! what a gorgeous movie! im sure i dont share quite your enthusiasm for it, but there were things about it that i really liked. i loved, for example, the way it was filmed, from mid-height or whatever you would say. i found that that, combined with the slow pace and attention to detail gave it a strong sense of verisimilitude, so that even though it was a bit slow moving, i still managed to stay engaged; and awed in the more surreal, disjointed scenes. the film reminded me of antonioni in that way, how from an action point of view there is not much going on, but on other levels there is so much going on. i always wonder why books cant be written like this. there seems to be so much more freedom with what you can do with movies. why cant books be written just as a series of images that are meant to evoke, or explore, or describe, or vaguely hint at, but with no real underlying message or storyline, just a sense of "this is the way it is, make of it what you will". to feel the way it was to have been someone at some point in time, to imagine the way they felt in relation to this blade of grass, this light streaming through the trees, their singular voice penetrating through layers of time and experience, is surely a more valuable reason to read a book than the empty satisfaction that comes from it being neatly tied up with some underlying moral lesson. i have not seen 2001 space odyssey unfortunately so i cant compare.
oh jackie kennedy... i liked the way she talked, mostly. she sounded always like a cross between marilyn monroe and a person with down's syndrome (which made her sound, as you would think, kind of dumb, but she was extremely smart; it was said that she read chekhov when she was five) . i always wondered why she talked like that and if it was an act but an entire lifetime is a long time to keep up an act. she seemed, in any case, to have a 'refusal to be real', an idea which i am fond of. also, i like how when jfk was asked to describe her he simply said "fey". she seems like one of those people who was probably always a bit of an enigma even to those who knew them well.
ooh have you lived in an igloo?! i wouldnt want to live in an igloo, admittedly, because it would be a bit cramped, but maybe an ice palace like the white witch from narnia? that would be ideal. i mean, i suffer a lot in the cold, seeming to get colder then most, but it's a suffering i dont mind, because i like the idea of cold, the austere crystalline serenity of it and the images it conjures up of raw struggle and 19th century orphans and chapped hands and the little match girl, who i always wanted to be.
haha i wouldnt mind if anyone tried to criticize morrissey. i'd probably just be happy for the chance to talk about him. i'm confident enough that there is nothing wrong with liking him, since, after all, i like him (and boy do i like him!). i really cant see that ever happening around here though. i mean, i'd be pretty surprised if many people were walking around with so much deep-seated dislike of morrissey that they would feel the need to start criticizing him to strangers. i think thats a special phenomenon unique to people on this site. ;)

fey:


- - - Updated - - -

ugh, another 10,000 word reply from me. *rolls eyes at myself*
 
Last edited by a moderator:
yes, i suppose it's weird. sorry about that. i find that if i think about it too much i find posting at a message board in general to be a bit weird. (intellectually, i dont think it actually is weird though, it just feels that way)
so anyway i watched tree of life! what a gorgeous movie! im sure i dont share quite your enthusiasm for it, but there were things about it that i really liked. i loved, for example, the way it was filmed, from mid-height or whatever you would say. i found that that, combined with the slow pace and attention to detail gave it a strong sense of verisimilitude, so that even though it was a bit slow moving, i still managed to stay engaged; and awed in the more surreal, disjointed scenes. the film reminded me of antonioni in that way, how from an action point of view there is not much going on, but on other levels there is so much going on. i always wonder why books cant be written like this. there seems to be so much more freedom with what you can do with movies. why cant books be written just as a series of images that are meant to evoke, or explore, or describe, or vaguely hint at, but with no real underlying message or storyline, just a sense of "this is the way it is, make of it what you will". to feel the way it was to have been someone at some point in time, to imagine the way they felt in relation to this blade of grass, this light streaming through the trees, their singular voice penetrating through layers of time and experience, is surely a more valuable reason to read a book than the empty satisfaction that comes from it being neatly tied up with some underlying moral lesson. i have not seen 2001 space odyssey unfortunately so i cant compare.
oh jackie kennedy... i liked the way she talked, mostly. she sounded always like a cross between marilyn monroe and a person with down's syndrome (which made her sound, as you would think, kind of dumb, but she was extremely smart; it was said that she read chekhov when she was five) . i always wondered why she talked like that and if it was an act but an entire lifetime is a long time to keep up an act. she seemed, in any case, to have a 'refusal to be real', an idea which i am fond of. also, i like how when jfk was asked to describe her he simply said "fey". she seems like one of those people who was probably always a bit of an enigma even to those who knew them well.
ooh have you lived in an igloo?! i wouldnt want to live in an igloo, admittedly, because it would be a bit cramped, but maybe an ice palace like the white witch from narnia? that would be ideal. i mean, i suffer a lot in the cold, seeming to get colder then most, but it's a suffering i dont mind, because i like the idea of cold, the austere crystalline serenity of it and the images it conjures up of raw struggle and 19th century orphans and chapped hands and the little match girl, who i always wanted to be.
haha i wouldnt mind if anyone tried to criticize morrissey. i'd probably just be happy for the chance to talk about him. i'm confident enough that there is nothing wrong with liking him, since, after all, i like him (and boy do i like him!). i really cant see that ever happening around here though. i mean, i'd be pretty surprised if many people were walking around with so much deep-seated dislike of morrissey that they would feel the need to start criticizing him to strangers. i think thats a special phenomenon unique to people on this site. ;)

fey:


- - - Updated - - -

ugh, another 10,000 word reply from me. *rolls eyes at myself*


Haha, that's a great description of how Jackie talks. Of course I'm judging that on the video you posted, because I really can't ever remember hearing her talk before. I'm sure I must have, but I just can't recall it. Hearing her now though, I do enjoy the way she talks. Was she medicated or just very well centered? She seems to not give a f*** about anything at all, but in an absolutely charming way. She must have been a very calming influence on JFK. I'm kind of relieved that you liked Tree Of Life. I certainly carried on enough about it. I'm gonna make sure to re-watch Wise Blood, so we can discuss it in finer detail. I was trying to think of a book like you mentioned, but nothing came to mind and it kind of sucks, because now I want to read a book like that. It really sounded to me, like you caught a flash of inspiration. You know, it starts with just one sentence and next thing you know you have a paragraph and next thing you know...

I've never really lived in an igloo, it just feels like it sometimes. The place I live is old and cold air creeps in from every angle. When it gets to cold out, all I want to do is dive under a stack up blankets, which is very enjoyable, but also counterproductive. I do like breathing cold air when I'm walking. The crispness of it can feel purifying, but then next thing you know, a cold wind stings and I wonder if I'm being punished instead.

By the way, don't be so hard on yourself. Your last reply was only 7,371 words. A far cry from 10,000.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Trending Threads

Back
Top Bottom