Harvey Weinstein/Donald Trump

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
Just generally ignorant.
Can you direct me to what it is you think Trump is going to have to resign over? As far as I can tell he didn’t rape anyone, he didn’t get his junk out and masturbate in front of anyone. At worst he is guilty of hitting on some women in fairly aggressive manner but certainly nothing in the league of William Jefferson Clinton. As far as I can tell these allegations and women came forward BEFORE the election and people still decided to vote for Trump.
The American people have already had their referendum on this subject and made their decision.

Am I missing something? Has some new info mysteriously come to light?
 

Sidnettle

Death to Racists
Can you direct me to what it is you think Trump is going to have to resign over? As far as I can tell he didn’t rape anyone, he didn’t get his junk out and masturbate in front of anyone. At worst he is guilty of hitting on some women in fairly aggressive manner but certainly nothing in the league of William Jefferson Clinton. As far as I can tell these allegations and women came forward BEFORE the election and people still decided to vote for Trump.
The American people have already had their referendum on this subject and made their decision.

Am I missing something? Has some new info mysteriously come to light?
He has openly confessed to multiple sexual assaults.

Either you think sexual assault is not a crime or you just wish it wasn't.
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
He has openly confessed to multiple sexual assaults.

Either you think sexual assault is not a crime or you just wish it wasn't.
Are you talking about that Billy Bush ‘grab ‘em by the pussy’ quote? Oh please don’t tell me your referencing that, please tell me you’ve got something more. Because I’m sorry to break it to you but two dudes talking dumb shit about their supposed sexual prowess on a hot mic does not make a confession of multiple sexual assault. If you think it does I can only say that you are suffering a greater degree of a Trump Derangement Syndrome than I first thought.

Newsflash, and be warned it ain’t pretty, but guys lie to other guys about their sexual prowess all the time. Guys lie about their ability with women in order to embolden their status with other men all the time. As I said, it’s not pretty but if your are hanging your hat on Trump being removed from office over those hot mic comments you are shit out of luck.

It’s certainly not pretty to listen to and Trump comes out of it looking like a giant schmuck and deservedly so, but there is no way you’re going to end up pinning down that bullshit as an admission of assault.
 

Sidnettle

Death to Racists
Are you talking about that Billy Bush ‘grab ‘em by the pussy’ quote? Oh please don’t tell me your referencing that, please tell me you’ve got something more. Because I’m sorry to break it to you but two dudes talking dumb shit about their supposed sexual prowess on a hot mic does not make a confession of multiple sexual assault. If you think it does I can only say that you are suffering a greater degree of a Trump Derangement Syndrome than I first thought.

Newsflash, and be warned it ain’t pretty, but guys lie to other guys about their sexual prowess all the time. Guys lie about their ability with women in order to embolden their status with other men all the time. As I said, it’s not pretty but if your are hanging your hat on Trump being removed from office over those hot mic comments you are shit out of luck.

It’s certainly not pretty to listen to and Trump comes out of it looking like a giant schmuck and deservedly so, but there is no way you’re going to end up pinning down that bullshit as an admission of assault.
How is that sexual prowess? The bullshit is coming from you.
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
How is that sexual prowess? The bullshit is coming from you.
I’m giving you a general example of how dudes will on occasion grossly exaggerate their encounters with women in order to show off to other dudes. Hey, as I said it’s not pretty but it does happen all the time and is commonly referred to as locker room talk.

And if that’s your baseline for ‘admitting’ sexual assault you better start building a heap more prisons because you will end up having to prosecute millions of men.
 
Last edited:

Sidnettle

Death to Racists
I’m giving you a general example of how dudes will occasion grossly exaggerate their encounters to women in order to show off to other dudes. Hey, as I said it’s not pretty but it does happen all the time and is commonly referred to as locker room talk.

And if that’s your baseline for ‘admitting’ sexual assault you better start building a heap more prisons because you will end up having to prosecute millions of men.
It's not sexual prowess, so your argument is null and void. If you wish to find a new basis for your argument go ahead.
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
It's not sexual prowess, so your argument is null and void. If you wish to find a new basis for your argument go ahead.
Look you seem nice and earnest in your belief but we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Of course it’s fucken prowess, maybe not the most urbane and genteel type of prowess but prowess none the less. Of course you have to dispute the semantics of what I say because the minute you agree your whole ‘this was an admission’ of sexual assault argument falls flat on its face.

Feel free to have the last word I’m done and it’s clear neither one of us is changing the others stance on this, but I’ll leave you with this, no court in America is going to recognise this as an admission of assault for the simple reason that it wasn’t. What is was was one dude blowing off some steam trying to big himself up to another dude by saying some douche things about women. Not a great look but the last time I checked not an offence you can prosecute someone on.
 

12" on the slack

outrightly laughing
It’s a moral not a legal issue.

So far there is no proof he committed a crime. If he did, he will be held accountable. Eventually. His enablers (which has pretty much become the Republican party) and his appointees and staff cover for him but that’s getting more difficult everyday. So yes, Trump probably gets away with quite a lot, although in a very real sense he stopped getting away with it the moment he won the Republican nomination. For the moment his enablers are staving off Trump being held to account. But that day is going to come, just how it’s going to play out, we’ll have to wait and see.

What I find more worrying is the recent paradigm shift. All of a sudden people in the western world find themselves fighting for basic respect and decency again, people have to come out and say that its not OK to rape women and treat them as objects, that it’s not OK to mock disabled people. Because, surely, if the President mocks disabled people (and anyone who points that out will immediately be dismissed as a snowflake or SJW by the alt-right and Trump supporters and defenders) and if the President grabs women by the pussy then surely that’s A-OK, in fact it’s kool *huh huh he said grab' em by the pussy, I’m totally votin for that dude*.

He is normalising shit that shouldn’t be normalised.
 
Last edited:

Sidnettle

Death to Racists
Look you seem nice and earnest in your belief but we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Of course it’s fucken prowess, maybe not the most urbane and genteel type of prowess but prowess none the less. Of course you have to dispute the semantics of what I say because the minute you agree your whole ‘this was an admission’ of sexual assault argument falls flat on its face.

Feel free to have the last word I’m done and it’s clear neither one of us is changing the others stance on this, but I’ll leave you with this, no court in America is going to recognise this as an admission of assault for the simple reason that it wasn’t. What is was was one dude blowing off some steam trying to big himself up to another dude by saying some douche things about women. Not a great look but the last time I checked not an offence you can prosecute someone on.
Grabbing someone by the genitals is not sexual prowess, sorry if it lessens your list of achievements.
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
It's not sexual prowess, so your argument is null and void. If you wish to find a new basis for your argument go ahead.
An alternative view for you Sidnettle. I never encounter blokes lying about their sexual prowess or joking about sexual abuse. This because it is unacceptable, unfunny and wrong and people I encounter know this.
Our friend Bhops finds it convenient to call me a prude and say I live a cloistered lifestyle.
Which is just another way of him saying he knows the 'truth' and I don't.
Ofcourse the reality is that everyone's experience tells us something about what's out there.
 
Last edited:

Sidnettle

Death to Racists
An alternative view for you Sidnettle. I never encounter blokes lying about their sexual prowess or joking about sexual abuse. This because it is unacceptable, unfunny and wrong and people I encounter know this.
Our friend Bhops finds it convenient to call me a prude and say I live a cloistered lifestyle.
Which is just another way of him saying he knows the 'truth' and I don't.
Ofcourse the reality is that everyone's experience tells us something about what's out there.
I've heard people 'exaggerating' about consensual sex with a woman, but I've never heard people 'exaggerating' about sexually assaulting someone.

Maybe I move in the wrong circles?
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
An alternative view for you Sidnettle. I never encounter blokes lying about their sexual prowess or joking about sexual abuse. This because it is unacceptable, unfunny and wrong and people I encounter know this.
Our friend Bhops finds it convenient to call me a prude and say I live a cloistered lifestyle.
Which is just another way of him saying he knows the 'truth' and I don't.
Ofcourse the reality is that everyone's experience tells us something about what's out there.
It happens Peter, maybe not in your universe, but it happens. Over the years I’ve played in a lot of different sports teams, I’ve been on corporate retreats, stood in bars and pubs, stood next to both CEO and labourers. Lived in different countries lived in different hemispheres, lived through different decades and one thing that is consistent across the lot is that guys will be prone to stand around and exaggerate about how they have their ways with the laydeez.

And yeah I do think you’ve lived in a cloistered world to have never witnessed and am frankly surprised that you think this sort of stuff doesn’t go on. You sound like celebs that were shocked, just shocked when they heard about the extent of Harvey Weinstein’s indiscretions.

Obviously the phrase ‘locker room talk’ is a completely new one to you and you are totally unaware as to what it means, but many guys do know what it means because it isn’t as uncommon as you think.
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
It happens Peter, maybe not in your universe, but it happens. Over the years I’ve played in a lot of different sports teams, I’ve been on corporate retreats, stood in bars and pubs, stood next to both CEO and labourers. Lived in different countries lived in different hemispheres, lived through different decades and one thing that is consistent across the lot is that guys will be prone to stand around and exaggerate about how they have their ways with the laydeez.

And yeah I do think you’ve lived in a cloistered world to have never witnessed and am frankly surprised that you think this sort of stuff doesn’t go on. You sound like celebs that were shocked, just shocked when they heard about the extent of Harvey Weinstein’s indiscretions.

Obviously the phrase ‘locker room talk’ is a completely new one to you and you are totally unaware as to what it means, but many guys do know what it means because it isn’t as uncommon as you think.
Well, who am I to question the wisdom of a veritable Mark Twain.
Here I can confess to actually being a daughter of christ.
Yes, I am a nun. Thus the 'cloistered' business.

I apologize for mentioning you in another post which, I presume is the reason for you coming after me with your nonsense.
It won't happen again.
For you:
"Ooh I've been to Georgia and California
and, anywhere I could run
I took the hand of a preacher man
and we made love in the sun
but I ran out of places
and friendly faces
because I had to be free
I've been to paradise
but I've never been to me..."
Have you been to you, Bhops? Have you?
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
Well, who am I to question the wisdom of a veritable Mark Twain.
Here I can confess to actually being a daughter of christ.
Yes, I am a nun. Thus the 'cloistered' business.

I apologize for mentioning you in another post which, I presume is the reason for you coming after me with your nonsense.
It won't happen again.
For you:
"Ooh I've been to Georgia and California
and, anywhere I could run
I took the hand of a preacher man
and we made love in the sun
but I ran out of places
and friendly faces
because I had to be free
I've been to paradise
but I've never been to me..."
Have you been to you, Bhops? Have you?
So I have to accept your experiences as valid but you do not accept mine? Curious.
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
So I have to accept your experiences as valid but you do not accept mine? Curious.
I didn't say that.
OK. You win. I will argue some more.
I am not saying it doesn't happen.
That would be foolish.
I interpret your position as being, 'Well, it's human nature. It's bound to happen. It's a form of release for sexual tension.' (You actually said that didn't you?).
I am saying that the human nature stuff is nonsense. The right often use it as a justification of nonsense.
No one knows what human nature is or even if it is a thing.
What I believe is that the language we use and what we say matters and we can behave in a kinder and more respectful way.
I recall in the past, the sort of talk you refer to did happen all over the place.
But throughout successive decades things have, in my experience (which of course you dismiss) things have changed and for the better.
In fact I find it encouraging that with the many people I meet daily (and this is not a pissing contest, I'm sure your experience outranks Marco Polo) that we are always respectful of everyone.
So, you can claim you know the truth and I live a cloistered life but that is just irrational because you know nothing about me.
I make no claims of ultimate truth and I make no judgments on your accounts or assumptions about your life.
You have both,m made judgments on me and assumptions about my life.

Have I misrepresented you?
I hope so. I don't like the idea of having enemies here.
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
I didn't say that.
OK. You win. I will argue some more.
I am not saying it doesn't happen.
That would be foolish.
I interpret your position as being, 'Well, it's human nature. It's bound to happen. It's a form of release for sexual tension.' (You actually said that didn't you?).
I am saying that the human nature stuff is nonsense. The right often use it as a justification of nonsense.
No one knows what human nature is or even if it is a thing.
What I believe is that the language we use and what we say matters and we can behave in a kinder and more respectful way.
I recall in the past, the sort of talk you refer to did happen all over the place.
But throughout successive decades things have, in my experience (which of course you dismiss) things have changed and for the better.
In fact I find it encouraging that with the many people I meet daily (and this is not a pissing contest, I'm sure your experience outranks Marco Polo) that we are always respectful of everyone.
So, you can claim you know the truth and I live a cloistered life but that is just irrational because you know nothing about me.
I make no claims of ultimate truth and I make no judgments on your accounts or assumptions about your life.
You have both,m made judgments on me and assumptions about my life.

Have I misrepresented you?
I hope so. I don't like the idea of having enemies here.

Here's what I agree on:

Yes as a society we have indeed made great strides in these areas, but indeed it does still go on. And my point (I'm obviously no Marco Polo) is that in my experience it still goes on across all stratas of society. You made the point that you never hear that type of talk amongst men these days which leads me to believe that you must lead a fairly cloistered life because, while the language isn't as prevalent today as it was 20 years ago, it is still definitely there. Sit around bar, sports club or even on a corporate retreat you will still here this type of stuff. I'm honestly genuinely surprised to discover that in your world you never ever come across this type of behaviour.

Here is where we differ:

It's interesting that you did in fact hear that type of language in the past and if you look at Trump he is indeed a guy from a different generation, he is in many ways a relic of the past, so to hear that hot mic tape wasn't surprising to me in the least. The Left (since you reference the Right) are of course desperate to remove Trump in any way possible so naturally they have jumped on the tape as an admission of multiple sexual assaults. Ummm no it's not, it's the type of shit, as I have been at pains to point out a multiplicity of times that you can hear in any men's locker room around the world. Maybe not as much as in the old days, but certainly still there. And you won't find a single court in America that will rule any other way on the matter.

After the interview do you think Billy Bush went home to his wife and said, "holy shit I think I should call the cops, Donald Trump just admitted multiple sexual assaults to me," or do you think he went home and said, "gee that orange dude sure talks a lot of shit and thinks he is far more attractive to women than he actually is."

As for human nature I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it out of hand. Men are loaded with testosterone and it is in our DNA to be hunter/gathers and to procreate with as many women as we can. Of course we have evolved and now have societal constructs such as monogamy and marriage and respect for one's feelings etc, however don't discount all that stored DNA completely. It still lies within us and it manifests itself in a variety of ways through body language, groups status and of course verbal interaction.

Like I said with Sid feel free to have the last word if you like, we aren't about to change each other's minds but I feel that we have both fairly respectfully and conclusively laid out our positions on the matter.
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
Here's what I agree on:

Yes as a society we have indeed made great strides in these areas, but indeed it does still go on. And my point (I'm obviously no Marco Polo) is that in my experience it still goes on across all stratas of society. You made the point that you never hear that type of talk amongst men these days which leads me to believe that you must lead a fairly cloistered life because, while the language isn't as prevalent today as it was 20 years ago, it is still definitely there. Sit around bar, sports club or even on a corporate retreat you will still here this type of stuff. I'm honestly genuinely surprised to discover that in your world you never ever come across this type of behaviour.

Here is where we differ:

It's interesting that you did in fact hear that type of language in the past and if you look at Trump he is indeed a guy from a different generation, he is in many ways a relic of the past, so to hear that hot mic tape wasn't surprising to me in the least. The Left (since you reference the Right) are of course desperate to remove Trump in any way possible so naturally they have jumped on the tape as an admission of multiple sexual assaults. Ummm no it's not, it's the type of shit, as I have been at pains to point out a multiplicity of times that you can hear in any men's locker room around the world. Maybe not as much as in the old days, but certainly still there. And you won't find a single court in America that will rule any other way on the matter.

After the interview do you think Billy Bush went home to his wife and said, "holy shit I think I should call the cops, Donald Trump just admitted multiple sexual assaults to me," or do you think he went home and said, "gee that orange dude sure talks a lot of shit and thinks he is far more attractive to women than he actually is."

As for human nature I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it out of hand. Men are loaded with testosterone and it is in our DNA to be hunter/gathers and to procreate with as many women as we can. Of course we have evolved and now have societal constructs such as monogamy and marriage and respect for one's feelings etc, however don't discount all that stored DNA completely. It still lies within us and it manifests itself in a variety of ways through body language, groups status and of course verbal interaction.

Like I said with Sid feel free to have the last word if you like, we aren't about to change each other's minds but I feel that we have both fairly respectfully and conclusively laid out our positions on the matter.
No, you're right. If I came back at you, you'd do the same and next thing we'd know we'll be buying the farm.
Hey WTF! You're clearly not a bastard and that's good enough for me.
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
No, you're right. If I came back at you, you'd do the same and next thing we'd know we'll be buying the farm.
Hey WTF! You're clearly not a bastard and that's good enough for me.
Let's start with a petting zoo :lbf:

I'm centre right (we're not all bad) you're centre left (they're not all bad) we hold our views strongly and will debate them vigorously but there also comes a time to put down the rhetoric, shake hands and say 'good duel.'
 
Top Bottom