give me advice please

A

All Over This Town

Guest
'The lyrics to "Kiss Me All Over the Place" are an example of horrible "poetry" and the lyrics to "Maladjusted" are an example of exceptional, even great, poetry. Or are they the same?'

It's actually called 'Kiss Me A lot'. And before one can call it 'an example of horrible poetry', one should first ask the author if it was (in this case) his intention of writing a poem or writing song lyrics. Or is it up to the reader/listener and not the author to make this judgement? But I do agree with you on 'Maladjusted'. :thumb:
I put poetry in quotes and called it lyrics. It's pretty clear that it was written to accompany music. But Morrissey did do those commercials where he read the lyrics from "World Peace" as if it were poetry. The point is that both are examples of the same form of expression, and one is great and one isn't, in my opinion, and again, if there is no bad art how can there be good art? As the philosopher Marilyn Manson said "If you love everyone what value does that place on love?"
If you're going to listen to music and there is no bad music then you only need one record. that's kind of liberating really. You might want a speed control so you can match it to your mood. If you want to wind down you can play it really slow. I read an interview with this band once. They started out playing 12-bar three chord blues which are all pretty similar except for the words and little melody parts. They got a job but they only knew four or five of these songs so to play at a bar all night they had to play them slow, medium, and fast.
I just think that if all lyrics are good and all songs are the same it seems like it would be sort of hard to be passionate about any of it. I guess it would explain the music charts though. As someone once sang "it could go on forever in which case I'm doomed."
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
I was confused if the right to write bad poetry was what you thought we should go to war for. I thought that Urbanus already volunteered to fight?
But more relevant to the thread maybe, I do think there is bad poetry. I'm not sure how someone could listen to Morrissey and disagree. Not that his is bad, most of the time. But he has opinions about bad poetry, bad music, and so on.
The point is though, everyone can write whatever they want, who cares? But if there is no bad poetry how can there be good poetry? What is the difference? Are there no bad paintings or bad music? Isn't this like that idea in children's sports where everyone gets a trophy for showing up and they don't keep score?
What will happen to the poets when we tell them their work is good and then they get out into the real world? They will not be prepared for it.

The lyrics to "Kiss Me All Over the Place" are an example of horrible "poetry" and the lyrics to "Maladjusted" are an example of exceptional, even great, poetry. Or are they the same?
If you translate the right to write bad poetry to the right to be free to do so as the goal to go to war for you are right. But it is only one aspect of to be free. I wouldn't single it out of the rest of to be free.

Of course there is good and bad poetry,.... in my opinion.
Just like I guess there is in yours.
Your taste and mine keeps developing.
I am just keeping open the possibility my taste might change.
And, there is no authority to decide for you what is good or bad poetry.
Would you accept that authority? I doubt it.

You are asking me who cares when there is no good or bad poetry.
I do. I feel free to do so. I don't care that nobody seems to care.
You make out what is good or bad poetry and what is the difference.

What do you mean with "the real world"?
We live in an absurd, irreal, surreal world, where anything good or bad can happen.
There is no difference between the poets who think they are good at their poetry cause they are deluded by all the praise and lots of other non-poets who are deluded too.

I like it you appreciate the lyrics to Maladjusted and I totally agree.
For me Kiss Me A Lot is a great single but it is such a different song.
Although the lyrics might not be that great in comparison, the important thing for me is Moz expressed that overwhelming, tantalizing, beautiful feeling of longing, of love, of romance, of going completely out of your mind, that feeling of never minding anything else then to love, to give love and to receive love, in all aspects and not leaving out the erotic components. Not leaving out? Very directly stating the state of happiness it gives to him!

And all this in a very catchy, brooding, triumphically explosion of feeling.
I think it is a universal feeling, very well expressed, musically and lyrically and there are enough people, fans, immediately recognizing that feeling and feeling that connection.
But that is just my opinion.

So Maladjusted and Kiss Me A Lot are not the same. They are different.
Cheers!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hi, i wrote this really short song/poem would like to have some peoples opinions please


Disconnection

concealing my thoughts,
behind my modern day mask
breaking down barriers of faces to
face
the deconstruction of barriers is
the reconstruction of society
the screens you so pathetically conceal
your weak incapable mind
fads that constantly change no matter day season or year

not exactly put in lots of thought but would like some people's opinions thanks:)

not sure if this is relevant but I'm only 15
You are a poet who didn't know it
 
A

All Over This town

Guest
If you translate the right to write bad poetry to the right to be free to do so as the goal to go to war for you are right. But it is only one aspect of to be free. I wouldn't single it out of the rest of to be free.

Of course there is good and bad poetry,.... in my opinion.
Just like I guess there is in yours.
Your taste and mine keeps developing.
I am just keeping open the possibility my taste might change.
And, there is no authority to decide for you what is good or bad poetry.
Would you accept that authority? I doubt it.

You are asking me who cares when there is no good or bad poetry.
I do. I feel free to do so. I don't care that nobody seems to care.
You make out what is good or bad poetry and what is the difference.

What do you mean with "the real world"?
We live in an absurd, irreal, surreal world, where anything good or bad can happen.
There is no difference between the poets who think they are good at their poetry cause they are deluded by all the praise and lots of other non-poets who are deluded too.

I like it you appreciate the lyrics to Maladjusted and I totally agree.
For me Kiss Me A Lot is a great single but it is such a different song.
Although the lyrics might not be that great in comparison, the important thing for me is Moz expressed that overwhelming, tantalizing, beautiful feeling of longing, of love, of romance, of going completely out of your mind, that feeling of never minding anything else then to love, to give love and to receive love, in all aspects and not leaving out the erotic components. Not leaving out? Very directly stating the state of happiness it gives to him!

And all this in a very catchy, brooding, triumphically explosion of feeling.
I think it is a universal feeling, very well expressed, musically and lyrically and there are enough people, fans, immediately recognizing that feeling and feeling that connection.
But that is just my opinion.

So Maladjusted and Kiss Me A Lot are not the same. They are different.
Cheers!
Dog shit is just a different flavor of pudding. lol
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
I won't judge poetry. What is garbage to me is golden to others, and vise versa. And it always means something to the writer.
But there is a site that can be decent at times, and is full of opportunity to write, critique, and be critiqued.
Go to allpoetry.com. But do stay away from the forums. They're full of crazy people. ;)
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
I put poetry in quotes and called it lyrics. It's pretty clear that it was written to accompany music. But Morrissey did do those commercials where he read the lyrics from "World Peace" as if it were poetry. The point is that both are examples of the same form of expression, and one is great and one isn't, in my opinion, and again, if there is no bad art how can there be good art? As the philosopher Marilyn Manson said "If you love everyone what value does that place on love?"
If you're going to listen to music and there is no bad music then you only need one record. that's kind of liberating really. You might want a speed control so you can match it to your mood. If you want to wind down you can play it really slow. I read an interview with this band once. They started out playing 12-bar three chord blues which are all pretty similar except for the words and little melody parts. They got a job but they only knew four or five of these songs so to play at a bar all night they had to play them slow, medium, and fast.
I just think that if all lyrics are good and all songs are the same it seems like it would be sort of hard to be passionate about any of it. I guess it would explain the music charts though. As someone once sang "it could go on forever in which case I'm doomed."
'But Morrissey did do those commercials where he read the lyrics from "World Peace" as if it were poetry.'

He said in an interview he was forced/persuaded to do those, it wasn't his idea. So if he is looking back on those ads as unfavorable to him, it could be he didn't see them as poetry, or to be experienced without the musical accompaniment. So we can't really say that the authors intention was for those lyrics to be thought of as poems/poetry. Though this is speculation from both of us, and we won't know the truth until he comes out and says exactly what he considers those or other lyrics of his to actually be.
 
A

All Over This Town

Guest
'But Morrissey did do those commercials where he read the lyrics from "World Peace" as if it were poetry.'

He said in an interview he was forced/persuaded to do those, it wasn't his idea. So if he is looking back on those ads as unfavorable to him, it could be he didn't see them as poetry, or to be experienced without the musical accompaniment. So we can't really say that the authors intention was for those lyrics to be thought of as poems/poetry. Though this is speculation from both of us, and we won't know the truth until he comes out and says exactly what he considers those or other lyrics of his to actually be.
I called the examples lyrics and put poems or poetry in quotes.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
I called the examples lyrics and put poems or poetry in quotes.
Lyrics, poems, poetry, prose, essays, novels, words on music are all different type of forms to me to express the (lyrical) content. And many times the diversions between them are not there. Sometimes they are or they are crossed and not that clearly to distinguish. There are lyrics which are almost like an essay.
There are novels which are more like poetry. And so they are all different in form.

I sense you have a more strict idea of what good poetry should be like and you apply your rules to make out if it is good or bad. The argument there must be bad poetry cause otherwise there would not be good poetry either is a good argument, but it is only for you to decide. There is no authority other then you.
It's not like a scientific fact that can't be denied.
Or statistic facts that can be measured. (That can be manipulated to get the results the client wants).

I like to think art is another area with no rules. One of the last areas if you are able to ignore the so-called experts. Which means freedom, to me.

I remember people criticising abstract, conceptual art, saying things like, my little son, or daughter can do the same and because of that it was no art. Meaning it was too easy. But when I asked why their little son or daughter didn't do it they had other activities that were so much more challenging. :rolleyes:

To me, as well as you, there is good art and bad art.
I have a problem to understand people who say things like, that's not art when they don't like it.
Cause, if it's not art, what is it?
Where that line is drawn is only a matter of ever changing taste and opinion in Western society.
Is that good or bad? Dunno.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The spoken words promo were a good idea. Everyone knew they were lyrics and meant to be sung and not necessarily read aloud
 

12" on the slack

team baklava
Lyrics, poems, poetry, prose, essays, novels, words on music are all different type of forms to me to express the (lyrical) content. And many times the diversions between them are not there. Sometimes they are or they are crossed and not that clearly to distinguish. There are lyrics which are almost like an essay.
There are novels which are more like poetry. And so they are all different in form.

I sense you have a more strict idea of what good poetry should be like and you apply your rules to make out if it is good or bad. The argument there must be bad poetry cause otherwise there would not be good poetry either is a good argument, but it is only for you to decide. There is no authority other then you.
It's not like a scientific fact that can't be denied.
Or statistic facts that can be measured. (That can be manipulated to get the results the client wants).

I like to think art is another area with no rules. One of the last areas if you are able to ignore the so-called experts. Which means freedom, to me.

I remember people criticising abstract, conceptual art, saying things like, my little son, or daughter can do the same and because of that it was no art. Meaning it was too easy. But when I asked why their little son or daughter didn't do it they had other activities that were so much more challenging. :rolleyes:

To me, as well as you, there is good art and bad art.
I have a problem to understand people who say things like, that's not art when they don't like it.
Cause, if it's not art, what is it?
Where that line is drawn is only a matter of ever changing taste and opinion in Western society.
Is that good or bad? Dunno.
Art is the application of creative skill and technique to express imagination, ideas, and emotions, and/or reflect something in/about the world and human nature. Skill and technique can be measured. Bad art is when the intention is there but the skill and care are missing.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
I won't judge poetry. What is garbage to me is golden to others, and vise versa. And it always means something to the writer.
But there is a site that can be decent at times, and is full of opportunity to write, critique, and be critiqued.
Go to allpoetry.com. But do stay away from the forums. They're full of crazy people. ;)
That's the reason you are here. This forum is an oasis of mental clarity. ;)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Art is the application of creative skill and technique to express imagination, ideas, and emotions, and/or reflect something in/about the world and human nature. Skill and technique can be measured. Bad art is when the intention is there but the skill and care are missing.
Say that to your parents.
 
A

All Over This Town

Guest
Lyrics, poems, poetry, prose, essays, novels, words on music are all different type of forms to me to express the (lyrical) content. And many times the diversions between them are not there. Sometimes they are or they are crossed and not that clearly to distinguish. There are lyrics which are almost like an essay.
There are novels which are more like poetry. And so they are all different in form.

I sense you have a more strict idea of what good poetry should be like and you apply your rules to make out if it is good or bad. The argument there must be bad poetry cause otherwise there would not be good poetry either is a good argument, but it is only for you to decide. There is no authority other then you.
It's not like a scientific fact that can't be denied.
Or statistic facts that can be measured. (That can be manipulated to get the results the client wants).

I like to think art is another area with no rules. One of the last areas if you are able to ignore the so-called experts. Which means freedom, to me.

I remember people criticising abstract, conceptual art, saying things like, my little son, or daughter can do the same and because of that it was no art. Meaning it was too easy. But when I asked why their little son or daughter didn't do it they had other activities that were so much more challenging. :rolleyes:

To me, as well as you, there is good art and bad art.
I have a problem to understand people who say things like, that's not art when they don't like it.
Cause, if it's not art, what is it?
Where that line is drawn is only a matter of ever changing taste and opinion in Western society.
Is that good or bad? Dunno.
Read the posts between Ketamine Sun and myself in this thread.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
James, I'm not sure that this forum is the best place for calling an ad hoc poetry workshop. Are you happy with this writing?
I know what you mean Kenmare, but let's make it one. :)
Why not?
 

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