FOS discussion

[Anonymous]

The discussion has been wide-ranging. The thread has the general expansive title of freedom of speech, even if you've kept bringing it back to your one point. But has anyone told you you're arrogant or self-righteous for spending your money as you like? Of course that's up to you. And beyond those few clumsy sentences from Morrissey, you don't honestly believe he thinks abuse is acceptable no matter what opportunity is presented, except for being realistic that there are abusers on the loose?

The Gift of Fear, a best-selling book by Gavin de Becker, originally marketed at celebrities threatened with violence, is all about learning to recognise danger signs, and how to avoid harm. This is also realistic. It's summarised here -

Sorry you are angry. You have a right to be. 'There is so much destruction all over the world'. Wishing you happiness

You did use the words arrogant and self-righteous in your post suggesting people who stopped being fans because they didn't agree with his opinions was political polarisation of which arrogance an self-righteousness were part.

Yes I do actually think Morrissey believes what he said with regards to that comment and also the comment that only people who didn't get a good career out of abuse from the Me Too campaign were speaking out. There is no reason for me to believe otherwise.

The book you mention has nothing to do with this point.

The discussion has been wide ranging but I started it under the London gig review when I questioned at which point had Morrissey been silenced and that led into the reason why I and 1000s of others stopped supporting him, and the whole purpose of that was to show that the reason he lost 1000s of his loyal fanbase was purely because of these kind of comments and the other issues re his support of For Britain etc.

It has nothing to do with cancel culture and nothing to do with any orchestrated plan to damage his career or any planned boycott.

It is purely people who spent decades being his loyal fans not wanting to spend their money on him anymore following the things he has said.

This point now has gone round and round and round and people still keep coming back going off track from that single point from where this thread began.

It is not about whether his comment was right, or whether the abuse claimant was wrong or not. It was about the clear victim blaming statement in relation to both Rabb and the Me Too abuse victims and whether you interpret his clear words differently it doesn't matter.

There are plenty of people who followed him for years and years who left because of those words. They just stopped loving him. Simple.

 

[Malarkey]

So you think it is ok to state a person claiming they were sexually abused as a child is not telling the truth because a 14 year old wouldn't go into a hotel room with an adult?

You my need to think about that a little. Plenty of children get abused in hotel rooms. Why would that be justification for not thinking it to be true?

In reality it was true, except it wasn't a hotel, it was an apartment bedroom but surely that makes no difference whatsoever.

It wasn't gossip at all. Spacey admitted he took a 14 year old boy to his bedroom and he apologised for his behaviour.

Do you really think it is credible to think a child abuse claimant is not telling the truth because Morrissey thinks a 14 year old would know better than to go into a bedroom with an adult and should have been aware that things could happen if he did?

Should we tell all abuse helplines and charities that they shouldn't believe any child that phones in if they say they were 14 and went into an adults bedroom?

At what age would it be believable for a child to have entered a bedroom with an adult do you think?

It's like there is a barrier to the english language and common sense suddenly.

It was gossip.

Morrissey isn't involved in this at all.

 

[A scanty bit of thing]

You did use the words arrogant and self-righteous in your post suggesting people who stopped being fans because they didn't agree with his opinions was political polarisation of which arrogance an self-righteousness were part.

Yes I do actually think Morrissey believes what he said with regards to that comment and also the comment that only people who didn't get a good career out of abuse from the Me Too campaign were speaking out. There is no reason for me to believe otherwise.

The book you mention has nothing to do with this point.

The discussion has been wide ranging but I started it under the London gig review when I questioned at which point had Morrissey been silenced and that led into the reason why I and 1000s of others stopped supporting him, and the whole purpose of that was to show that the reason he lost 1000s of his loyal fanbase was purely because of these kind of comments and the other issues re his support of For Britain etc.

It has nothing to do with cancel culture and nothing to do with any orchestrated plan to damage his career or any planned boycott.

It is purely people who spent decades being his loyal fans not wanting to spend their money on him anymore following the things he has said.

This point now has gone round and round and round and people still keep coming back going off track from that single point from where this thread began.

It is not about whether his comment was right, or whether the abuse claimant was wrong or not. It was about the clear victim blaming statement in relation to both Rabb and the Me Too abuse victims and whether you interpret his clear words differently it doesn't matter.

There are plenty of people who followed him for years and years who left because of those words. They just stopped loving him. Simple.

I think on some level people feel sorry for you, because no one has bothered to actually state the obvious to you. You are by far the most invested person in this thread, and by far the most invested person on your specific point of fixation, and people here -actually for various reasons- disagree with your spin.

I think the hilarious part is that you keep typing over and over and over again about how many thousands of fans Morrissey has lost and how they (exactly like you!) no longer love him (sob!) Ok, so let me not only state the obvious, but also ask the obvious. Who are you trying to convince? And why do you think anyone on earth would even care?

I don’t think Morrissey, or anyone on this site, could care any less (than we already do) if you disagree with him/don’t want to buy his records or go to his concerts/or if you choose to dislike him (even fervently)

It’s beyond comical how many words you’ve typed to insist exactly these points though. Literally nobody cares that you used to be a Morrissey fan and that you feel unvalidated that no one could care less that now you are not. You live in the free world

 

[Anonymous]

It was gossip.

Morrissey isn't involved in this at all.

What on earth are you talking about? Involved?

It wasn't gossip. It went to court and Morrissey's statement was recorded.

You are missing the whole point.

It isn't important in terms of the reality of the case or the outcome of the case. Morrissey made a statement that said he didn't believe the abuse claimant because it would be unlikely that a 14 year old boy would go into a bedroom with an adult.

Anything else around it isn't important.

By making the statement Morrissey absolutely involved himself and indicated his views on abuse claimants and similarly with regard to Me Too victims stated victims speaking up only did so because the abuse they suffered didn't lead to a successful career.

If you can't see the problem with either of those scenarios then there is no hope and quite frankly you would believe anything he says and excuse anything he says. But as I have said I don't really care if you understand this or not. That, again, isn't the point of this discussion. The point being that people have been affected by his statements and because of those statements decided to stop supporting him and it is the main basis as to why he has lost a large percentage of his fanbase, not as he would like people to believe, because of some orchestrated secret squirrel plan by 4 men to shutdown his career.

I hope you don't play this gullible in real life because you may well come unstuck one day but good luck for your future.

 

[Anonymous]

I think on some level people feel sorry for you, because no one has bothered to actually state the obvious to you. You are by far the most invested person in this thread, and by far the most invested person on your specific point of fixation, and people here -actually for various reasons- disagree with your spin.

I think the hilarious part is that you keep typing over and over and over again about how many thousands of fans Morrissey has lost and how they (exactly like you!) no longer love him (sob!) Ok, so let me not only state the obvious, but also ask the obvious. Who are you trying to convince? And why do you think anyone on earth would even care?

I don’t think Morrissey, or anyone on this site, could care any less (than we already do) if you disagree with him/don’t want to buy his records or go to his concerts/or if you choose to dislike him (even fervently)

It’s beyond comical how many words you’ve typed to insist exactly these points though. Literally nobody cares that you used to be a Morrissey fan and that you feel unvalidated that no one could care less that now you are not. You live in the free world

Well there have been others posting on this thread in agreement so when you speak for everyone on here you are factually incorrect.

I don't really give two sh*ts whether you think I am comical or not. It is a public forum and since it is about freedom of speech I don't really care whether you think I shouldn't be posting these things at all.

It was a discussion that started in relation to Morrissey being silenced and I , and others, on here don't buy that at all and so with it being a public forum, and a thread I started I assume you are perfectly fine to allow anyone to express their views.

The only thing you have contributed to this discussion is vitriolic personal attacks against me for saying what I have said and that my dear is just what it is, meaningless pap.

You statement that apparently I feel "unvalidated" is also just that, pap. I don't feel "unvalidated" at all and it bemuses me to read your angry rants. I don't care what you think and nothing you will say in your attempt to humiliate and belittle will have any effect on me whatsoever.

It is simply a discussion which has spread legs from silencing, to lies, to consumer choice, to trans gender issues, to religious treatment of women, to the way the courts and people treat people speaking up about abuse and that for me is important and it seems many others have been interested in this discussion because it is now on its 8th page of people talking about it. So not everyone is as disinterested as you seem to suggest as their high and mighty spokesperson. You could of course follow what you state is true in terms of nobody caring about any of this and just ignore it but that would be too say wouldn't it.

 

[Redacted]

Spacey is the victim

And here we get to the truth of the matter, your honest opinion, which has nothing to do with Morrissey's freedom of speech. Sympathizing with a sex offender isn't really any different than being a sex offender. Spacey is facing more sexual assault charges in the UK, I'm sure he will appreciate your sympathy and support, he's been criminally charged.
And this little gem, totally innocent, a victim -
A judge in Los Angeles this summer approved an arbitrator's decision to order Spacey to pay $30.9 million to the makers of "House of Cards" for violating his contract by sexually harassing crew members.

Again, your comments have nothing to do with your allegation that Morrissey has been stripped of his freedom of speech

 

[bhops]

And here we get to the truth of the matter, your honest opinion, which has nothing to do with Morrissey's freedom of speech. Sympathizing with a sex offender isn't really any different than being a sex offender. Spacey is facing more sexual assault charges in the UK, I'm sure he will appreciate your sympathy and support, he's been criminally charged.
And this little gem, totally innocent, a victim -
A judge in Los Angeles this summer approved an arbitrator's decision to order Spacey to pay $30.9 million to the makers of "House of Cards" for violating his contract by sexually harassing crew members.

Again, your comments have nothing to do with your allegation that Morrissey has been stripped of his freedom of speech

Spacey having to pay House Of Cards 30 mill is disgraceful. Everyone in Hollyweird knew of Spacey's behaviours for years. EVERYONE.

 

[bhops]

Is this an example of some of the 'consequences' you had in mind? A woman being assaulted by men? Her crime? Stating that biological sex is a fact and can't be changed by some miracle of internal belief. You got to love The Guardian, calling her an 'anti-trans activist'. She's not anti-trans - she is simply pro-women. Pure misogyny in action.

Anti-trans activist Posie Parker leaves New Zealand after chaotic protests

Gender-critical activist was booed and heckled in Auckland and cancelled event in Wellington

www.theguardian.com

That was disgusting and I hold my head in shame for what happened in my country, while our ghoulish goony MSM cheered it on. I think I'll move to Sweden, hopefully Sea Salt will put my up for awhile in a plot twist no-one saw coming. And to pay my way I'll give him boxing lessons in the back garden

 

[Redacted]

Spacey having to pay House Of Cards 30 mill is disgraceful. Everyone in Hollyweird knew of Spacey's behaviours for years. EVERYONE.

Apparently there were damages and he was ordered to pay. So tell me how this relates to freedom of speech.

 

[Cornflakes]

Spacey having to pay House Of Cards 30 mill is disgraceful. Everyone in Hollyweird knew of Spacey's behaviours for years. EVERYONE.

And yet, where were the parents?

 

[bhops]

Apparently there were damages and he was ordered to pay. So tell me how this relates to freedom of speech.

Because they hired him knowing what they were getting. It doesn't apply to the actual discussion about Freedom of Speech, it's just something that pisses me off.

 

[bhops]

And yet, where were the parents?

Kevin's parents? Ded.

 

[Redacted]

Because they hired him knowing what they were getting. It doesn't apply to the actual discussion about Freedom of Speech, it's just something that pisses me off.

I understand

 

[Eldritch]

Spacey having to pay House Of Cards 30 mill is disgraceful. Everyone in Hollyweird knew of Spacey's behaviours for years. EVERYONE.

Obviously not Morrissey though.

 

[Malarkey]

What on earth are you talking about? Involved?

It wasn't gossip. It went to court and Morrissey's statement was recorded.

You are missing the whole point.

It isn't important in terms of the reality of the case or the outcome of the case. Morrissey made a statement that said he didn't believe the abuse claimant because it would be unlikely that a 14 year old boy would go into a bedroom with an adult.

Anything else around it isn't important.

By making the statement Morrissey absolutely involved himself and indicated his views on abuse claimants and similarly with regard to Me Too victims stated victims speaking up only did so because the abuse they suffered didn't lead to a successful career.

If you can't see the problem with either of those scenarios then there is no hope and quite frankly you would believe anything he says and excuse anything he says. But as I have said I don't really care if you understand this or not. That, again, isn't the point of this discussion. The point being that people have been affected by his statements and because of those statements decided to stop supporting him and it is the main basis as to why he has lost a large percentage of his fanbase, not as he would like people to believe, because of some orchestrated secret squirrel plan by 4 men to shutdown his career.

I hope you don't play this gullible in real life because you may well come unstuck one day but good luck for your future.

He didn't say, bedroom. He said hotel room.

He is not involved in any of these situations in any way - so it is gossip.

If you stopped being a fan because of it & yet are still commenting on it nearly 6 years later - you need psychological help.

 

[Malarkey]

And yet, where were the parents?

If the actor is underage there has to be a chaperone, often a parent, who will keep a record of everything the kid does. So, on set.

And you would have to ask why complaints about sexual harassment hadn't been recorded or investigated by the production.

 

[sea salt]

That was disgusting and I hold my head in shame for what happened in my country, while our ghoulish goony MSM cheered it on. I think I'll move to Sweden, hopefully Sea Salt will put my up for awhile in a plot twist no-one saw coming. And to pay my way I'll give him boxing lessons in the back garden

Do you know how to cook and clean? On second thought, f*** it. You can have the house and the garden in Sweden, I’m permanently relocating to Greece (although, surprisingly Sweden really has its shit together when it comes to certain issues like the trans agenda and Covid, obviously).

 

[Anonymous]

Because they hired him knowing what they were getting. It doesn't apply to the actual discussion about Freedom of Speech, it's just something that pisses me off.

It pisses me off too but not for the same reason.

It is a appalling legal system in the US that a person who has had multiple claimants speak up against him for the abuse he has committed and is ordered to pay civil damages is not charged with criminal offences and convicted and sent to prison to protect other people.

But people will have their day in court yet.

 

[Anonymous]

He didn't say, bedroom. He said hotel room.

He is not involved in any of these situations in any way - so it is gossip.

If you stopped being a fan because of it & yet are still commenting on it nearly 6 years later - you need psychological help.

lol. If you are stating that you think it makes any difference as to whether he said he didn't believe the abuse happened in a bedroom or hotel room - you need help. It isn't important what room he was talking about.

Why do you say he isn't involved and in the same breath say it was 6 years ago? You contradict yourself in the same sentence. Of course Morrissey was involved. He made a statement. No one disputes that, except you seemingly.

I do think it is important to comment on these things especially on a discussion about Morrissey's imaginary idea that there was an orchestrated plot to silence him.

 

[Anonymous]

If the actor is underage there has to be a chaperone, often a parent, who will keep a record of everything the kid does. So, on set.

And you would have to ask why complaints about sexual harassment hadn't been recorded or investigated by the production.

What are you talking about? It wasn't on set. It had nothing to do with any production.

There was no chaperone needed at a social event.

I went to many social events in my teens without any parents or chaperones as do millions of teenagers.

When you were 14, although I'm not sure if you have reached that age yet, did you only go to places with your parents?