nicky wire's legs
Christ is king!
me either. i hear his name EVERYWHERE now though! weird!
I had never in my life heard the name Billy Bragg, before I read about his ramblings against Moz on this forum btw. Guess he's sorta famous in the UK?
FOS discussion
- Thread starter gashonthenail
- Start date
Crisstti
Well-Known Member
The guy has an awful singing voice btw. And I tried listening to Sexuality, made it to about 1/3 of the song. Cringeworthy lyrics too.
There's this video on YT of a short interview with Moz before going onstage, and he and the band are so happy.
Lol good point. Not sure they meant that when talking about "imagery" though.
There's this video on YT of a short interview with Moz before going onstage, and he and the band are so happy.
goinghome
you must not tamper with arrangements
Even if his comments have been widely noted, I feel any harm Billy Bragg's done is not as deliberate, and he's a lesser player in the drama. But I'm not sure.
Good question, mozmar, about the purpose of these discoveries, being made in public on what, as far as I know, is the only active fan site running under Morrissey's name, drawing all kinds of people interested for multiple reasons; students: professionals, artists, entertainers, journalists and so on, including most likely the four persecutors at times, being as belligerently glib as they can can be on their music pages. They may have done some damage, or an injustice, whether defamation could be proven is another matter, grounds for which in the US, at least, require information shared to be demonstrably and objectively false, and then to be seen or heard by a public third party, and then quantifiably injurious, and then unprivileged by law.
Maybe it's enough to have doubts so skillfully cast on the media's negative portrayal of Morrissey and motivations behind that. He's said he's not keen on more litigation. The bloodhounds are now alerted to the fact they can no longer rely on silver-tongued defense. At least according to some, they've been framed - or framed themselves. Can they change and be nice? Time will tell.
Morrissey's controversial political dabblings in 2017 implied less nuanced thought which hurt his followers, but that rift is mending, and the bad habit of sharing publicity from shoddy sources has stopped. He is blessed with a worldwide audience, whose members continue to enjoy his diverse work, and can see past the smelly aggressions on display. So the future's rosy.
But what do you think is next?
Crisstti
Well-Known Member
That's a very good point!
Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
They mean the flag & the skinhead picture.
nicky wire's legs
Christ is king!
but how can that be, when the gold lame shirt is the most homo thing about it??!! was there no mention of the shirt?!
nicky wire's legs
Christ is king!
the way i see it, if he didnt receive a kicking for the shirt, they were being pro-homo, not anti
Crisstti
Well-Known Member
Giving interviews to gay magazines, in gay bars. And yet some suggest he was ever "in the closet".
Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
Because they were focusing on the skinhead angle!
nicky wire's legs
Christ is king!
But what does that have to do with homosexuality?! I'm so confused, nerak. You foreigners are so whacky and i haven't really been following this thread too closely. Can you explain it all to me from the beginning with a special emphasis on the correlation between skinheads and homosexuality as well as why, if homophobia is the issue, the gold lame shirt gets a pass?
scifilull
Member
not joining this debate on either side but thank you for reminding me of that interview. it's actually quite heartbreaking - his uncontained happiness, his and the band's excitement before the gig contrasted against the gig itself ending in disaster and them having to vacate the stage
nicky wire's legs
Christ is king!
what was the audience's big problemo? morrissey is great!
Crisstti
Well-Known Member
Yeah. I had written that it was sad when I mentioned it, but then deleted that part as it's imo both sad and happy. Their excitement and happiness are real and are great to see, and while things went to shit there, it's not like it meant the end of his career nor anything, things have turned out quite fine for him overall imo.
Troubled-Joe
Hung by my pretty white neck
The Madstock Gig (first night sold out straight away so they added the second) had so much hype around it. The magnificent 7 return etc… 6 years after they split up it was totally unexpected and the crowd was made up of 40k people just waiting for Madness to hit the stage, most were not concerned for the multiple support acts, even Ian Dury.
So maybe it was partly anticipation, excitement, alcohol etc…
Gates opened at mid day, and Madness were due on about 8.30 if I remember rightly, so that’s a long wait if you’re not interested in any of the other acts.
I was just a kid but 90% of the audience were over 30’s from all walks of life.
This was only my second ever live Gig and as far as madness Gigs go (and there’s been many) it’s the best I’ve seen them.
Moz was on top form as far as I was concerned, but not playing to his crowd, it’s always awkward - same as festivals.
Lifetime ago now
ZOOM FROM GLOOM
LASCIATE OGNI SPERANZA!
it simply comes down to that shirt being the trigger to Morrissey’s ‘downfall’.
Jokes aside, there may be some truth to that.
For where a red pullover may blend well with one’s vomit, a gold lamé shirt just doesn’t blend with Union Jack and skinheads on a backdrop for some.
Last edited:
Alain's (often forgotten view):
Steve: What album did you join Morrissey on?
Alain: Joined in ’91 and the first album, I wrote the majority of stuff on “Your Arsenal”.
Steve: Oh, yeah. I bought that one. I like “National Front Disco”, that’s my favorite song.
Alain: Oh yeah? Well it’s apt title got us in a lot of trouble.
Steve: Yeah, what was that all about? It was when you played a gig in England, right? What was it that got you in trouble?
Alain: To be honest, it was (for) the right reasons that we got in trouble because all the National Front lot had turned up to the Madness gig and they were the ones pelting us. You know? So I was pleased about that, in a way because you know, it’s an anti-racist song. It’s about a kid who…the song I think, is about a kid who winds up hanging out with the wrong people and gets involved with a right-wing element.
Steve: People don’t listen to the lyrics, though. They just hear a word and they’re like “Oh!”
Alain: Things got out of hand. I was up on stage and all of a sudden, I saw this silver thing flying and I just when, you know, moved my head to the side and this fifty pence coin missed me by you know, inches. It would have took me right out.
Steve: Really.
Alain: Yeah, it was crazy. They did not like us. It was not good.
Steve: But that was only a one-time thing?
Alain: Yeah, I mean, we’d done about eight songs and you know, bottles of orange juice and all kinds of stuff and coins were getting lobbed on stage. I heard about sixteen pounds landed on stage, in coins. Great, eh?
Steve: Payola.
Alain: Yeah.
Steve: Pay to play.
Alain: Yeah.
Steve: But, why did it get such a…it seemed like, in the media, even they got it wrong. The press got it wrong that, it kind of made it like he was pro-National Front, or whatever.
Alain: Well, the Media basically set him up. The Media made up a load of lies. The decided that you know, they’d had enough of Morrissey and they basically have recently admitted that they were in the wrong and that they were deliberately targeting him. So, you know, they were just out to get him, basically. Made up a load of lies.
Steve: Cos he was always, especially by the NME, he was their darling, wasn’t he? For years.
Alain: Oh, yeah. I mean, The Smiths and Morrissey could do no wrong. But when we joined, a lot of people didn’t like us cos all of a sudden, you’ve got these tough-looking rockers, you know, playing behind like, this guy that they loved. I mean, our band was completely different to The Smiths. The Smiths, they didn’t move about much onstage and they had a completely different to what we have, we’re a lot more raw and more hard-edged. So people at first didn’t like us, you know? It was too much of a big change for them.
Steve: Well, it’s the same as that Dylan thing, wunnit? When he went from acoustic to electric. The diehards got the ump cos they didn’t understand what was happening. It’s like that in a lot of ways, though. But you know, you’ve just got to go with what you believe in don’t you? You know what I mean?
Alain: It was weird, because also, like, before we joined, or before I joined Moz, he put out an album called, “Kill Uncle” and it got slated in the press, big-time. And it’s actually not a bad record you know? I think it’s unfairly slated. But “Your Arsenal” helped revive him…
Steve: You like that title cos you support Arsenal.
Alain: Of course!
www.morrissey-solo.com
FWD.
Steve: What album did you join Morrissey on?
Alain: Joined in ’91 and the first album, I wrote the majority of stuff on “Your Arsenal”.
Steve: Oh, yeah. I bought that one. I like “National Front Disco”, that’s my favorite song.
Alain: Oh yeah? Well it’s apt title got us in a lot of trouble.
Steve: Yeah, what was that all about? It was when you played a gig in England, right? What was it that got you in trouble?
Alain: To be honest, it was (for) the right reasons that we got in trouble because all the National Front lot had turned up to the Madness gig and they were the ones pelting us. You know? So I was pleased about that, in a way because you know, it’s an anti-racist song. It’s about a kid who…the song I think, is about a kid who winds up hanging out with the wrong people and gets involved with a right-wing element.
Steve: People don’t listen to the lyrics, though. They just hear a word and they’re like “Oh!”
Alain: Things got out of hand. I was up on stage and all of a sudden, I saw this silver thing flying and I just when, you know, moved my head to the side and this fifty pence coin missed me by you know, inches. It would have took me right out.
Steve: Really.
Alain: Yeah, it was crazy. They did not like us. It was not good.
Steve: But that was only a one-time thing?
Alain: Yeah, I mean, we’d done about eight songs and you know, bottles of orange juice and all kinds of stuff and coins were getting lobbed on stage. I heard about sixteen pounds landed on stage, in coins. Great, eh?
Steve: Payola.
Alain: Yeah.
Steve: Pay to play.
Alain: Yeah.
Steve: But, why did it get such a…it seemed like, in the media, even they got it wrong. The press got it wrong that, it kind of made it like he was pro-National Front, or whatever.
Alain: Well, the Media basically set him up. The Media made up a load of lies. The decided that you know, they’d had enough of Morrissey and they basically have recently admitted that they were in the wrong and that they were deliberately targeting him. So, you know, they were just out to get him, basically. Made up a load of lies.
Steve: Cos he was always, especially by the NME, he was their darling, wasn’t he? For years.
Alain: Oh, yeah. I mean, The Smiths and Morrissey could do no wrong. But when we joined, a lot of people didn’t like us cos all of a sudden, you’ve got these tough-looking rockers, you know, playing behind like, this guy that they loved. I mean, our band was completely different to The Smiths. The Smiths, they didn’t move about much onstage and they had a completely different to what we have, we’re a lot more raw and more hard-edged. So people at first didn’t like us, you know? It was too much of a big change for them.
Steve: Well, it’s the same as that Dylan thing, wunnit? When he went from acoustic to electric. The diehards got the ump cos they didn’t understand what was happening. It’s like that in a lot of ways, though. But you know, you’ve just got to go with what you believe in don’t you? You know what I mean?
Alain: It was weird, because also, like, before we joined, or before I joined Moz, he put out an album called, “Kill Uncle” and it got slated in the press, big-time. And it’s actually not a bad record you know? I think it’s unfairly slated. But “Your Arsenal” helped revive him…
Steve: You like that title cos you support Arsenal.
Alain: Of course!
Moz and Steve Jones photo posted on @jonesysjukebox / Instagram
Moz and Steve Jones from the Sex Pistols (in case you didn't know). From Jonesy's mildly amusing instagram feed. Some amusing comments as well. Not quite sure where Mr Jones' right hand is.
www.morrissey-solo.com
Crisstti
Well-Known Member
Very interesting, thanks for posting.Alain's (often forgotten view):
Steve: What album did you join Morrissey on?
Alain: Joined in ’91 and the first album, I wrote the majority of stuff on “Your Arsenal”.
Steve: Oh, yeah. I bought that one. I like “National Front Disco”, that’s my favorite song.
Alain: Oh yeah? Well it’s apt title got us in a lot of trouble.
Steve: Yeah, what was that all about? It was when you played a gig in England, right? What was it that got you in trouble?
Alain: To be honest, it was (for) the right reasons that we got in trouble because all the National Front lot had turned up to the Madness gig and they were the ones pelting us. You know? So I was pleased about that, in a way because you know, it’s an anti-racist song. It’s about a kid who…the song I think, is about a kid who winds up hanging out with the wrong people and gets involved with a right-wing element.
Steve: People don’t listen to the lyrics, though. They just hear a word and they’re like “Oh!”
Alain: Things got out of hand. I was up on stage and all of a sudden, I saw this silver thing flying and I just when, you know, moved my head to the side and this fifty pence coin missed me by you know, inches. It would have took me right out.
Steve: Really.
Alain: Yeah, it was crazy. They did not like us. It was not good.
Steve: But that was only a one-time thing?
Alain: Yeah, I mean, we’d done about eight songs and you know, bottles of orange juice and all kinds of stuff and coins were getting lobbed on stage. I heard about sixteen pounds landed on stage, in coins. Great, eh?
Steve: Payola.
Alain: Yeah.
Steve: Pay to play.
Alain: Yeah.
Steve: But, why did it get such a…it seemed like, in the media, even they got it wrong. The press got it wrong that, it kind of made it like he was pro-National Front, or whatever.
Alain: Well, the Media basically set him up. The Media made up a load of lies. The decided that you know, they’d had enough of Morrissey and they basically have recently admitted that they were in the wrong and that they were deliberately targeting him. So, you know, they were just out to get him, basically. Made up a load of lies.
Steve: Cos he was always, especially by the NME, he was their darling, wasn’t he? For years.
Alain: Oh, yeah. I mean, The Smiths and Morrissey could do no wrong. But when we joined, a lot of people didn’t like us cos all of a sudden, you’ve got these tough-looking rockers, you know, playing behind like, this guy that they loved. I mean, our band was completely different to The Smiths. The Smiths, they didn’t move about much onstage and they had a completely different to what we have, we’re a lot more raw and more hard-edged. So people at first didn’t like us, you know? It was too much of a big change for them.
Steve: Well, it’s the same as that Dylan thing, wunnit? When he went from acoustic to electric. The diehards got the ump cos they didn’t understand what was happening. It’s like that in a lot of ways, though. But you know, you’ve just got to go with what you believe in don’t you? You know what I mean?
Alain: It was weird, because also, like, before we joined, or before I joined Moz, he put out an album called, “Kill Uncle” and it got slated in the press, big-time. And it’s actually not a bad record you know? I think it’s unfairly slated. But “Your Arsenal” helped revive him…
Steve: You like that title cos you support Arsenal.
Alain: Of course!
FWD.Moz and Steve Jones photo posted on @jonesysjukebox / Instagram
Moz and Steve Jones from the Sex Pistols (in case you didn't know). From Jonesy's mildly amusing instagram feed. Some amusing comments as well. Not quite sure where Mr Jones' right hand is.
The complete lack of ethics from the NME (and I don't know how much other publications joined in) is staggering.
E
Ellie Mental
Guest
Interesting article today about Tim Jonze. Wish him well, whatever the history
www.theguardian.com
I wanted to scream at other parents: ‘You don’t know how lucky you are’ – how cancer in my 30s brought me face-to-face with death
My world came crashing down when I was told I might have months to live. Terrified, I played word games in bed and unloaded on strangers. Then I realised it was time to start living
Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
The short version is:
In 1983 Garry Bushell at Sounds accused Morrissey of being pro-paedophilia for Reel Around the Fountain.
In 1985 there was a lot of angst in the gay press about whether being a skinhead was sexual or could be perceived as racist. This was the scene Morrissey was part of (rockabilly features a lot in the gay press as a lighter version of punk/Oi) - so Frank Owen in the Melody Maker tried to get him to talk about his sexuality by asking him if Panic/Indie music was racist.
(I'm still chasing this lead - but there's a strong indication that the press split the Smiths up because they thought he was becoming more overtly gay.)
By the late 80s/early 90s IPC started fretting that Morrissey wasn't celibate & that teenage boys were displaying a worrying level of affection for him. This was at a time when the gay age of consent was 21 because they thought gay men recruited boys into their lifestyle.
The fact that solo he was getting more & more into rockabilly & skinheads was a worrying sign & then - just before Madstock - channel 4 ran a documentary about gay skinheads in which an ex neo-Nazi called Nicky Crane came out as gay.
Morrissey walked off stage at Madstock claiming a National Front skinhead had attacked him. The crowd had yelled homophobic abuse.
The NME's in-coming editor Steve Sutherland decided to threaten him into an interview by wording their Madstock article in a way in which M had to say he was gay or they would say he was a racist.
He ignored them.
It escalated.
Troubled-Joe
Hung by my pretty white neck
Just one point on your above post, Nicky Crane was never an EX neo Nazi, he was still a racist nasty piece of Shit on his Death Bed, same as Ian Stuart was.
Neither are a great loss to society (Sorry if that sound Harsh)...
Neither are a great loss to society (Sorry if that sound Harsh)...
