FOS discussion

[Anonymous]

I think what gashonthenail was saying, is that Rapp may have made a false accusation, which in my mind, is possible. I've been a victim of sexual assault as a child many times as a runaway, so I know it happens, but I've also been the victim of a false accusation, by a teacher who said that I molested her. I was 12 years old and never touched her. I lost my foster home because of her lie.

gashonthenail wasn't taking about Rapp at all in relation to the scabble comment.

No one here is stating that people don't make false accusations. No one.

It has nothing to do with that.

 

[Anonymous]

How caring and compassionate you sound...

in the same way Morrissey was when he stated he didn't believe an abuse claimant?

 

[Anonymous]

But my experience is relevant to the conversation here.

It isn't really relevant.

This is supposed to be about whether Morrissey was silenced or whether it is simply about people not liking what he has said and stopping spending their money on him.

There are elements of what he said that are relevant because they relate to why people stopped paying for him but it isn't really a general free for all relating to sexual abuse although I am also not sure how transgender, feminism, and the catholic church's latin mass came into it either.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

I don't know what is wrong with you and I don't care. I had apologized for any unkindness toward you but you can't just take that and be done. You have repeated your 'experiences' ad nauseum. you did not say anything new to me or anything you have not said literally hundreds of times before through your posts, your vocaroos and your youtube videos, and numerous threads about it. Countless people have asked you to stop and yes, all of us want you to stop taking about it here because it is the same thing over and over again. I am not sure what you don't understand about this. Go back and read the posts from other people to you.

Now do you understand why I wished someone had buried her alive??

 

[Anonymous]

View attachment 90059

Kevin Spacey found not liable in sex abuse suit brought by Anthony Rapp

Rapp alleged that Spacey climbed on top of him at a New York City party in 1986, when Rapp was 14 and Spacey was 26.

www.nbcnews.com

It is irrelevant to what Morrissey stated.

Morrissey didn't state it was untrue because of any floor plan or anything to do with what kind of building it was.

He said it was untrue because he didn't believe a 14 year old boy would go into a room with an adult without understanding what could happen re sexual abuse.

I don't know how many times you have to be told now by different people but you just keep saying it was fine what he said because Spacey had a studio apartment.

I'm not sure why you can't understand the point here but the fact you don't is not something I understand and there is little point in continuing t try to get you to understand the plain English in Morrissey's statement.

 

[caramel sea salt]

When I was fourteen and would follow a 48 year old to his hotel room/bed room whatever I knew we weren't going to play Scrabble.

Exactly that. But you are not allowed to say that. Cue clutching of pearls and frothing at the mouth. That is victim blaming. Victims must always be believed. It's one of the woke articles of faith: Blessed are the victims - they have 'their truth' - they must always be believed.

Yeah, I don’t see the “victim” part here.

“I put myself into a precarious situation and I was almost molested.”

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I don’t see the “victim” part here.

“I put myself into a precarious situation and I was almost molested.”

It makes no difference if a child goes into a precarious situation being fully aware of what might happen.
A child is not responsible for the crime committed by the adult.

The blame for the crime is never legally or in any other way with the 14 year old child.
It is always with the adult. That is the law and that is the moral position.
Any sex with a 14 year old is considered coercive regardless of whether both parties say they consented to it.

In the US this is statutory rape.
In the state of New York a child of 14 is not legally able to give consent to have sex with any person no matter what age, so the adult in the room is committing coercive statutory rape with a minor.

 

[gashonthenail]

But my experience is relevant to the conversation here.

Your experience is indeed relevant and shouldn't be negated. When the weakness of what he is saying is made apparent for all to see - Redacted responds in 1 of 2 ways - disengage or descend to personal abuse. Don't take it personally.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

Like all normal people, I am 100% against the molestation and abuse of children and for that reason I think it’s incredibly dangerous to tar and feather people asking the right questions. Those questions also include uncomfortable questions sometimes. I think it doesn’t help children or victims in any way when people get on this bandwagon of insisting that it’s some kind terrible thing to be asking the kinds of questions that can open people’s eyes to the reality that we live in a dangerous world and that it’s fine to ask questions if it helps prevent some horrific thing of happening again and again and again. For a start, in the case of a child victim, number one priority is to make sure the same thing doesn’t repeat happen again to that very same child. Guess what, this means having to ask the same questions.

“Where are the parents” has been deliberately twisted too many times to count, by people who aren’t even thinking in some cases.

If the child was 9 and someone asked “where were the parents?”, it would be a legitimate question to try to understand exactky what happened. Also if the child was 4. But in some people’s minds, not if the child was 14? Wrong. As long as we are talking about abuse of minors, this question applies whether the child or 4 or 14. It doesn’t matter that some people don’t like it, or in some instances that some people are pointing out that they went to some places alone when they were 14. That is beside the point. The point is that the question is not the crime, and it’s also the very first question anyone is going to ask when trying to understand how and why a minor was harmed by an adult. Including the police.

It is 100% true that asking questions about what led to a particular set of circumstances or to danger will not prevent something similar from happening to other victims, for the simple reason that it’s not possible to identify all disturbed people or child predators in advance.

But to attempt to turn a discussion about endangerment and abuse towards children into a collective societal voice that dictates that adults can’t ask questions, or to suggest that asking questions is forbidden lest we hurt someone’s feelings, is just another extreme position on the other (also totally wrong) side of the continuum.

Sometimes parents are not at fault. Sometimes parents need to be taught how to not exploit their own children. Sometimes children are capricious and do things or go places without permission or without their parents knowing and inadvertently put themselves in danger that way. That’s actually why parents are parents, and why children are minors until deemed legally old enough to make some of their own autonomous decisions.

To suggest that we live in a rainbows and unicorns society where children don’t have to be taught about stranger danger is ridiculous, and to take the position that people are victim blaming when they are not really propagates the wrong message.

Other children and other potential future victims could in some instances avoid also becoming victims of abuse. Asking the right questions is one step toward that. For anyone still confused, a 14 year old is not responsible for their own welfare and decision making. Their parents are.

So this is really a revolting conversation for too many reasons to list again, but the people and the media who are opposed to responsible adults asking questions that could shed light on how a similar potentially dangerous situation could be avoided - for the same child or for another child in the future, are really on the wrong side of this line in sand.

 

[Anonymous]

Like all normal people, I am 100% against the molestation and abuse of children and for that reason I think it’s incredibly dangerous to tar and feather people asking the right questions. Those questions also include uncomfortable questions sometimes. I think it doesn’t help children or victims in any way when people get on this bandwagon of insisting that it’s some kind terrible thing to be asking the kinds of questions that can open people’s eyes to the reality that we live in a dangerous world and that it’s fine to ask questions if it helps prevent some horrific thing of happening again and again and again. For a start, in the case of a child victim, number one priority is to make sure the same thing doesn’t repeat happen again to that very same child. Guess what, this means having to ask the same questions.

“Where are the parents” has been deliberately twisted too many times to count, by people who aren’t even thinking in some cases.

If the child was 9 and someone asked “where were the parents?”, it would be a legitimate question to try to understand exactky what happened. Also if the child was 4. But in some people’s minds, not if the child was 14? Wrong. As long as we are talking about abuse of minors, this question applies whether the child or 4 or 14. It doesn’t matter that some people don’t like it, or in some instances that some people are pointing out that they went to some places alone when they were 14. That is beside the point. The point is that the question is not the crime, and it’s also the very first question anyone is going to ask when trying to understand how and why a minor was harmed by an adult. Including the police.

It is 100% true that asking questions about what led to a particular set of circumstances or to danger will not prevent something similar from happening to other victims, for the simple reason that it’s not possible to identify all disturbed people or child predators in advance.

But to attempt to turn a discussion about endangerment and abuse towards children into a collective societal voice that dictates that adults can’t ask questions, or to suggest that asking questions is forbidden lest we hurt someone’s feelings, is just another extreme position on the other (also totally wrong) side of the continuum.

Sometimes parents are not at fault. Sometimes parents need to be taught how to not exploit their own children. Sometimes children are capricious and do things or go places without permission or without their parents knowing and inadvertently put themselves in danger that way. That’s actually why parents are parents, and why children are minors until deemed legally old enough to make some of their own autonomous decisions.

To suggest that we live in a rainbows and unicorns society where children don’t have to be taught about stranger danger is ridiculous, and to take the position that people are victim blaming when they are not really propagates the wrong message.

Other children and other potential future victims could in some instances avoid also becoming victims of abuse. Asking the right questions is one step toward that. For anyone still confused, a 14 year old is not responsible for their own welfare and decision making. Their parents are.

So this is really a revolting conversation for too many reasons to list again, but the people and the media who are opposed to responsible adults asking questions that could shed light on how a similar potentially dangerous situation could be avoided - for the same child or for another child in the future, are really on the wrong side of this line in sand.

No one in this thread I think disputes any of what you say but you miss one key point.

No one is saying someone should not ask questions to try to understand what happened to the child. No one.

Morrissey didn't say "where are the parents" as a question of concern for the child.
He used it to state he didn't believe the abuse happened because the parents would either have been with a 14 year old child or the 14 year old would have been aware to not be in a space alone with an adult backed up by his point that he had never in is youth put himself in that position.

Here it is again:

“As far as I know, he was in a bedroom with a 14-year-old, Kevin Spacey was 26, boy 14.
One wonders where the boy’s parents were. One wonders if the boy did not know what would happen.
I do not know about you but in my youth I have never been in situations like this. Never.
I was always aware of what could happen,
When you are in somebody’s bedroom, you have to be aware of where that can lead to.
That’s why it does not sound very credible to me. It seems to me that Spacey has been attacked unnecessarily.”

He is dismissing what was claimed. It's not about asking questions to find out what when wrong as you suggest.

 

[Malarkey]

It is irrelevant to what Morrissey stated.

Morrissey didn't state it was untrue because of any floor plan or anything to do with what kind of building it was.

He said it was untrue because he didn't believe a 14 year old boy would go into a room with an adult without understanding what could happen re sexual abuse.

I don't know how many times you have to be told now by different people but you just keep saying it was fine what he said because Spacey had a studio apartment.

I'm not sure why you can't understand the point here but the fact you don't is not something I understand and there is little point in continuing t try to get you to understand the plain English in Morrissey's statement.

You said there was no studio apartment.

You were wrong.

Just like you're wrong about Morrissey's statement - he clearly said he was against any kind of physical attack. And that he didn't think the story he'd heard rang true because he didn't think a 14 year old would go into a hotel room.

And he was right.

 

[Anonymous]

Like all normal people, I am 100% against the molestation and abuse of children and for that reason I think it’s incredibly dangerous to tar and feather people asking the right questions. Those questions also include uncomfortable questions sometimes. I think it doesn’t help children or victims in any way when people get on this bandwagon of insisting that it’s some kind terrible thing to be asking the kinds of questions that can open people’s eyes to the reality that we live in a dangerous world and that it’s fine to ask questions if it helps prevent some horrific thing of happening again and again and again. For a start, in the case of a child victim, number one priority is to make sure the same thing doesn’t repeat happen again to that very same child. Guess what, this means having to ask the same questions.

“Where are the parents” has been deliberately twisted too many times to count, by people who aren’t even thinking in some cases.

If the child was 9 and someone asked “where were the parents?”, it would be a legitimate question to try to understand exactky what happened. Also if the child was 4. But in some people’s minds, not if the child was 14? Wrong. As long as we are talking about abuse of minors, this question applies whether the child or 4 or 14. It doesn’t matter that some people don’t like it, or in some instances that some people are pointing out that they went to some places alone when they were 14. That is beside the point. The point is that the question is not the crime, and it’s also the very first question anyone is going to ask when trying to understand how and why a minor was harmed by an adult. Including the police.

It is 100% true that asking questions about what led to a particular set of circumstances or to danger will not prevent something similar from happening to other victims, for the simple reason that it’s not possible to identify all disturbed people or child predators in advance.

But to attempt to turn a discussion about endangerment and abuse towards children into a collective societal voice that dictates that adults can’t ask questions, or to suggest that asking questions is forbidden lest we hurt someone’s feelings, is just another extreme position on the other (also totally wrong) side of the continuum.

Sometimes parents are not at fault. Sometimes parents need to be taught how to not exploit their own children. Sometimes children are capricious and do things or go places without permission or without their parents knowing and inadvertently put themselves in danger that way. That’s actually why parents are parents, and why children are minors until deemed legally old enough to make some of their own autonomous decisions.

To suggest that we live in a rainbows and unicorns society where children don’t have to be taught about stranger danger is ridiculous, and to take the position that people are victim blaming when they are not really propagates the wrong message.

Other children and other potential future victims could in some instances avoid also becoming victims of abuse. Asking the right questions is one step toward that. For anyone still confused, a 14 year old is not responsible for their own welfare and decision making. Their parents are.

So this is really a revolting conversation for too many reasons to list again, but the people and the media who are opposed to responsible adults asking questions that could shed light on how a similar potentially dangerous situation could be avoided - for the same child or for another child in the future, are really on the wrong side of this line in sand.

and while you are there do you also have a mysterious reason for the Me Too comments he made:

"The person referred to as a victim is merely disappointed...
People know exactly what's going on and they play along.
Afterwards, they feel embarrassed or disliked. And then they turn it around and say: 'I was attacked, I was surprised'.
But if everything went well, and if it had given them a great career, they would not talk about it"

Was that also coming from a perspective of "shedding light on how a similar potentially dangerous situation could be avoided"?

 

[Anonymous]

You said there was no studio apartment.

You were wrong.

Just like you're wrong about Morrissey's statement - he clearly said he was against any kind of physical attack. And that he didn't think the story he'd heard rang true because he didn't think a 14 year old would go into a hotel room.

And he was right.

It doesn't matter if it was a studio apartment. Has nothing to do with it.

I also never said Morrissey wasn't against any kind of physical attack . That is also not in question.

What is in question is he dismissed the claim of abuse because he didn't believe it to be true because a 14yr old would have known what might happened and that he himself had never put himself into that kind of situation in his youth.

You are just not getting it. As I said good luck. You may need it

 

[Malarkey]

It doesn't matter if it was a studio apartment. Has nothing to do with it.

I also never said Morrissey wasn't against any kind of physical attack . That is also not in question.

What is in question is he dismissed the claim of abuse because he didn't believe it to be true because a 14yr old would have known what might happened and that he himself had never put himself into that kind of situation in his youth.

You are just not getting it. As I said good luck. You may need it

You asked for a link to the information about the studio apartment. Dave got this wrong as well - so if you're Dave - hello.

Morrissey is against physical attacks so he can't be blaming the victim because he doesn't think anything occurred.

He didn't believe an untrue story about people he has nothing to do with when asked about Spacey being cut out of a film 6 years ago.

 

[Malarkey]

and while you are there do you also have a mysterious reason for the Me Too comments he made:

"The person referred to as a victim is merely disappointed...
People know exactly what's going on and they play along.
Afterwards, they feel embarrassed or disliked. And then they turn it around and say: 'I was attacked, I was surprised'.
But if everything went well, and if it had given them a great career, they would not talk about it"

Was that also coming from a perspective of "shedding light on how a similar potentially dangerous situation could be avoided"?

November, 2017, Der Spiegel Audio:

JL: as we’re in Hollywood, did you follow the whole scandal that came now with, like, Weinstein and Me Too and all those things.

Morrissey: uhh, to a point I did, but then it became uhh theatre and suddenly everybody’s guilty. Suddenly anybody who has ever said to another person “I quite like you”, suddenly they’re being accused of sexual harassment. But you have to keep it in perspective, because if you can’t say to somebody that you like them, then how will they ever know? But of course there are extreme cases and rape is revolting and any kind of physical attack is revolting. But we must keep it in perspective otherwise everybody on the planet is guilty. And everything. And we can’t constantly have this superior attitude about what you should do and what you are not allowed to do. Because then we’re all trapped, we can’t relax. And some people are very clumsy when it comes to romance and if they meet somebody, they’re very awkward, and they don’t know how to do it really and how to let someone know. So it can sometimes seem aggressive.

JL: If I like someone I ignore them for like 5 years.

Morrissey: Typical, that’s a typical response. And it’s dangerous, because it’s a waste of five years. But that’s, many people do that or if they see somebody they like they look away. Ridiculous. Ridiculous.

**

JL: yeah, I’m also thinking about this whole thing with actresses...

Morrissey: And you also must wonder if, people know exactly what’s happening and they go along with it. But then when it’s happened they find that they’re either embarrassed or they didn’t like it, so they then reverse it, and say I was ambushed, I was taken by surprise, I was dragged into the room. But if the incident had gone very well and they had really enjoyed it and it led to an incredible career, they wouldn’t mention it. And I hate to be that cynical because I hate rape and I hate attack, and I hate any sexual situation that is forced on a person against their will. But in many many situations you look at the circumstances and you think that the person who is called a victim is merely disappointed.

JL: Yeah, I think it’s important to, like keep justify up, that it’s still fair for everybody.

 

[Anonymous]

November, 2017, Der Spiegel Audio:

JL: as we’re in Hollywood, did you follow the whole scandal that came now with, like, Weinstein and Me Too and all those things.

Morrissey: uhh, to a point I did, but then it became uhh theatre and suddenly everybody’s guilty. Suddenly anybody who has ever said to another person “I quite like you”, suddenly they’re being accused of sexual harassment. But you have to keep it in perspective, because if you can’t say to somebody that you like them, then how will they ever know? But of course there are extreme cases and rape is revolting and any kind of physical attack is revolting. But we must keep it in perspective otherwise everybody on the planet is guilty. And everything. And we can’t constantly have this superior attitude about what you should do and what you are not allowed to do. Because then we’re all trapped, we can’t relax. And some people are very clumsy when it comes to romance and if they meet somebody, they’re very awkward, and they don’t know how to do it really and how to let someone know. So it can sometimes seem aggressive.

JL: If I like someone I ignore them for like 5 years.

Morrissey: Typical, that’s a typical response. And it’s dangerous, because it’s a waste of five years. But that’s, many people do that or if they see somebody they like they look away. Ridiculous. Ridiculous.

**

JL: yeah, I’m also thinking about this whole thing with actresses...

Morrissey: And you also must wonder if, people know exactly what’s happening and they go along with it. But then when it’s happened they find that they’re either embarrassed or they didn’t like it, so they then reverse it, and say I was ambushed, I was taken by surprise, I was dragged into the room. But if the incident had gone very well and they had really enjoyed it and it led to an incredible career, they wouldn’t mention it. And I hate to be that cynical because I hate rape and I hate attack, and I hate any sexual situation that is forced on a person against their will. But in many many situations you look at the circumstances and you think that the person who is called a victim is merely disappointed.

JL: Yeah, I think it’s important to, like keep justify up, that it’s still fair for everybody.

and you don't think there is anything wrong with this?:

And you also must wonder if, people know exactly what’s happening and they go along with it. But then when it’s happened they find that they’re either embarrassed or they didn’t like it, so they then reverse it, and say I was ambushed, I was taken by surprise, I was dragged into the room. But if the incident had gone very well and they had really enjoyed it and it led to an incredible career, they wouldn’t mention it. And I hate to be that cynical because I hate rape and I hate attack, and I hate any sexual situation that is forced on a person against their will. But in many many situations you look at the circumstances and you think that the person who is called a victim is merely disappointed.

 

[Anonymous]

You asked for a link to the information about the studio apartment. Dave got this wrong as well - so if you're Dave - hello.

Morrissey is against physical attacks so he can't be blaming the victim because he doesn't think anything occurred.

He didn't believe an untrue story about people he has nothing to do with when asked about Spacey being cut out of a film 6 years ago.

It has nothing to do with a studio apartment or whether he is against attacks. No one here thinks for one second that Morrissey condones attacks. I have no idea why you keep saying that.

It has no bearing on the whole discussion point. You simply don't understand.

The fact he doesn't think anything occurred is the exact point why it is victim blaming.

 

[Anonymous]

November, 2017, Der Spiegel Audio:

JL: as we’re in Hollywood, did you follow the whole scandal that came now with, like, Weinstein and Me Too and all those things.

Morrissey: uhh, to a point I did, but then it became uhh theatre and suddenly everybody’s guilty. Suddenly anybody who has ever said to another person “I quite like you”, suddenly they’re being accused of sexual harassment. But you have to keep it in perspective, because if you can’t say to somebody that you like them, then how will they ever know? But of course there are extreme cases and rape is revolting and any kind of physical attack is revolting. But we must keep it in perspective otherwise everybody on the planet is guilty. And everything. And we can’t constantly have this superior attitude about what you should do and what you are not allowed to do. Because then we’re all trapped, we can’t relax. And some people are very clumsy when it comes to romance and if they meet somebody, they’re very awkward, and they don’t know how to do it really and how to let someone know. So it can sometimes seem aggressive.

JL: If I like someone I ignore them for like 5 years.

Morrissey: Typical, that’s a typical response. And it’s dangerous, because it’s a waste of five years. But that’s, many people do that or if they see somebody they like they look away. Ridiculous. Ridiculous.

**

JL: yeah, I’m also thinking about this whole thing with actresses...

Morrissey: And you also must wonder if, people know exactly what’s happening and they go along with it. But then when it’s happened they find that they’re either embarrassed or they didn’t like it, so they then reverse it, and say I was ambushed, I was taken by surprise, I was dragged into the room. But if the incident had gone very well and they had really enjoyed it and it led to an incredible career, they wouldn’t mention it. And I hate to be that cynical because I hate rape and I hate attack, and I hate any sexual situation that is forced on a person against their will. But in many many situations you look at the circumstances and you think that the person who is called a victim is merely disappointed.

JL: Yeah, I think it’s important to, like keep justify up, that it’s still fair for everybody.

"And some people are very clumsy when it comes to romance and if they meet somebody, they’re very awkward, and they don’t know how to do it really and how to let someone know. So it can sometimes seem aggressive."

Interesting way to talk about Weinstein, now of course in prison for rape.

 

[caramel sea salt]

It makes no difference if a child goes into a precarious situation being fully aware of what might happen.
A child is not responsible for the crime committed by the adult.

The blame for the crime is never legally or in any other way with the 14 year old child.
It is always with the adult. That is the law and that is the moral position.
Any sex with a 14 year old is considered coercive regardless of whether both parties say they consented to it.

In the US this is statutory rape.
In the state of New York a child of 14 is not legally able to give consent to have sex with any person no matter what age, so the adult in the room is committing coercive statutory rape with a minor.

(1) Nobody is disputing that having sex with a minor is illegal.

(2) Spacey didn't have sex with Rapp.

Why are you so hysterical and repetitive? Are you a ped0?

 

[Anonymous]

(1) Nobody is disputing that having sex with a minor is illegal.

(2) Spacey didn't have sex with Rapp.

Why are you so hysterical and repetitive? Are you a ped0?

Not the point.

It is about Morrissey stating he didn't believe the claim because a 14 year old boy would have know better than to have been in a room with an adult.

I'm glad you think it is hysterical. It is being repeated because it goes around and around because no one in this cult is willing to accept that what he said was wrong and because of that, it is the reason fans stopped following him, not because of any orchestrated silencing plan which he claims.

Has nothing to do with whether Spacey had sex with Rapp or not.