FOR HISTORIC RECORD, BEFORE I DIE. - Morrissey Central

FOR HISTORIC RECORD, BEFORE I DIE. - Morrissey Central
June 28, 2019

…the ten most important recordings

1. New York Dolls - New York Dolls
2. Horses - Patti Smith
3. Chelsea Girl - Nico
4. Ramones - Ramones
5. Raw Power - The Stooges
6. The Velvet Underground & Nico - The Velvet Underground & Nico
7. Kimono My House - Sparks
8. For Your Pleasure - Roxy Music
9. White Light/White Heat - The Velvet Underground
10. Jobriath - Jobriath

Buy these today or drop dead.
-Morrissey.


Related items:
 
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Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><><><><>
Well, he did say that he liked his own race the most, didn't he?
This proves it, more or less (as you mentioned, some of these artists are influenced by black artists)
Now, do this exercise for yourself, and see how yours will look like.
I know that mine would also be all-white.
Consciously or sub-consciously, many of us gravitate towards something within our comfort zone.
Just to put things into perspective ….

Question: does there exist of his favourite books / authors?
I bet James Baldwin would be on it, so he would fare better there.

As far as the preference comment goes, that’s just conditioning/upbringing.


But on the topic of music...

to put it bluntly.. if you make rock’n roll music then you are influenced by black musicians.

If a young musician gets inspired by a Stones record they are also being influenced by the black musicians that inspired the Stones to make music in the first place.


The first records I ever bought were very early rap records and I would obsessively record DJ Red Alert on cassette off the radio, guessing 83?so my list of favorite records couldn’t be all white in spite of the records that were being listened to by people around me of my age or from family members, this is before I got into punk, and eventually The Smiths.

And through Morrissey I was actually turned on to a lot more black artists.
 
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Mayfly

Well-Known Member
Yes, spurred on by Nick Cave's words on the subject yesterday no doubt.
That must have done Moz a lot of good.

On a sidenote, if Johnny Marr ever has a chance of the reunion happening, now is the time.
A few public words of support for Moz, and it could happen in a heartbeat.

Strange thought, a Smiths reunion has never seemed so far away to me.
Can't see Johnny Marr touching Morrissey now.
BTW, in the SER interview he said that "the Guardian has pestered ad relentlessly harassed musicians, urging them not to work with me again". Not sure this was about Johnny, but it was a curious statement.
 

marred

Member
That night in 2009.
One night in Germany. You at your 2nd Moz gig scowling at everyone. Even your kid was embarrassed

I think we’re alone now - Tiffany x
I have a kid now? I can't keep up with your delusions. You're making new ones now. I must've left that kid in Germany.

It wasn't my second Moz gig either. If you're going to be delusional then be consistent.
 
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rifke

team bougatsa
I always find lists really interesting when people share them. Creating one myself is sheer torture. I really love most of what Morrissey selected but not sure how many would make my top 10, though I do own most.
I lvoe creating lists! it's my favourite thing to do (actually it's my number four favourite thing to do :p ). I create lists of my favourite names, my favourite movies, my favourite books, my favourite models, my favourite songs. I dread someone asking me what my favourite thing in a certain category is and to not be able to tell them. it's part of a belief i have that the things I love make me who I am, and to forget them is to lose sight of who i am.

let's get together and make lists, Morrissey!!
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
I can't think of Bryan Ferry without remembering Morrissey's paranoid but utterly hilarious slamming of him in Autobiog - for the crime of trying to steal Johnny ("As if jealously guarding a can of sardines, Billy Bunter and his playmates are rumbled" / "Sherry-fed Ferry stumbles up to the spotlight as though direct from a pink gin all-nighter in Redcliffe Square")- still makes me laugh even now :lbf:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
As far as the preference comment goes, that’s just conditioning/upbringing.


But on the topic of music...

to put it bluntly.. if you make rock’n roll music then you are influenced by black musicians.

If a young musician gets inspired by a Stones record they are also being influenced by the black musicians that inspired the Stones to make music in the first place.

This is not true. I know you read it somewhere once and took it as the truth but it's not something you'll be able to back up if I press you on it. Yes, The Stones were influenced by black musicians, that does not mean every white man or woman who played the guitar was too. The Stones are a unique case anyway since their entire act was lifted wholesale from black American blues musicians. There are numerous white rock acts whose lineage you can't trace back to Robert Johnson or whoever. England has a rich folk tradition, so does the Appalachian area of the USA, along with for instance Spain which is the country most closely associated with the six string acoustic guitar. Black American blues musicians are not the be all and end all, and guitar based music did not begin with them, so you know where you can shove your revisionist history lesson don't you. Anyway rock music would have died a sorry death half a century ago if white people didn't revolutionise it. Most of your favourite acts from the 1960s to today wouldn't exist without white innovation. So say "thank you, white people". Go on, say it. "Thank you for your innovative music which gave me something to base my identity around, otherwise I'd have nothing."
 

The Truth

about Ruth
I have a kid now? I can't keep up with your delusions. You're making new ones now. I must've left that kid in Germany.

It wasn't my second Moz gig either. If you're going to be delusional then be consistent.
What is that person talking about? I've seen the rumors and innuendo but what's ... The Truth?
 

The Truth

about Ruth
This is not true. I know you read it somewhere once and took it as the truth but it's not something you'll be able to back up if I press you on it. Yes, The Stones were influenced by black musicians, that does not mean every white man or woman who played the guitar was too. The Stones are a unique case anyway since their entire act was lifted wholesale from black American blues musicians. There are numerous white rock acts whose lineage you can't trace back to Robert Johnson or whoever. England has a rich folk tradition, so does the Appalachian area of the USA, along with for instance Spain which is the country most closely associated with the six string acoustic guitar. Black American blues musicians are not the be all and end all, and guitar based music did not begin with them, so you know where you can shove your revisionist history lesson don't you. Anyway rock music would have died a sorry death half a century ago if white people didn't revolutionise it. Most of your favourite acts from the 1960s to today wouldn't exist without white innovation. So say "thank you, white people". Go on, say it. "Thank you for your innovative music which gave me something to base my identity around, otherwise I'd have nothing."
Folk. gospel. and blues became rock. You really can't be a rock musician without having been influenced by musicians who were influenced by black musicians. It's insane to even try to make that point. I can't imagine what your motivation would be. :rolleyes:

You can be a folk musician hypothetically who has somehow never heard the radio but you'd also have to have parents who had quite carefully created a collection of recordings for you. You think Appalachian folk music is exclusively white? When would that have even been possible?

Read a book about The Carter Family called "Will You Miss Me When I'm Gone." It's got the history of pop, the history of radio, the history of how folk turned into country music and rock and it's really interesting.
I don't think it's really possible to be a folk musician today without having been influenced by them to some degree and they took from everywhere. You definitely can't play "white rock music." It doesn't exist. The closest would be classical metal like Yngwie but he was a fan of Deep Purple and they were listening to the blues like everyone else.

What happened is that very quickly phonographs went from about $200 to about $10 and record companies needed "race music" and "hillbilly music" to sell to people that now owned record players. They started recording everybody.
Then radio became affordable and widespread. You could turn the dial and hear all kinds of music. You didn't have to go to a black church to hear black gospel. And while the blues was considered dangerous, white musicians could listen to it on their radios and learn to play it on their instruments.
Country, Blues, and Rock music shares a lot of the same chord progressions. What makes it different is the scales played over it. But a natural musician will pick up on these things.

The only way you could possibly be a white folk musician playing white folk music unaffected by black influences and blues would be if you were somehow raised in an artificial environment as a test case.
 

NealCassidy

FREE SPEECH #FBPB
We know full well that you didn’t listen, or was even aware of Refusal.
I must have walked into a concert in 2006 by mistake
 

Thewlis

Junior Member
Strange thought, a Smiths reunion has never seemed so far away to me.
Can't see Johnny Marr touching Morrissey now.
BTW, in the SER interview he said that "the Guardian has pestered ad relentlessly harassed musicians, urging them not to work with me again". Not sure this was about Johnny, but it was a curious statement.
That comment relates to The Guardian trying to get the collaborators on CS to say something nasty about Moz pre-release: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/mar/01/morrissey-collaborators-respond-to-his-politics
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I have a kid now? I can't keep up with your delusions. You're making new ones now. I must've left that kid in Germany.

It wasn't my second Moz gig either. If you're going to be delusional then be consistent.

Your brother. You mongrel
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><><><><>
Folk. gospel. and blues became rock. You really can't be a rock musician without having been influenced by musicians who were influenced by black musicians. It's insane to even try to make that point. I can't imagine what your motivation would be. :rolleyes:

You can be a folk musician hypothetically who has somehow never heard the radio but you'd also have to have parents who had quite carefully created a collection of recordings for you. You think Appalachian folk music is exclusively white? When would that have even been possible?

Read a book about The Carter Family called "Will You Miss Me When I'm Gone." It's got the history of pop, the history of radio, the history of how folk turned into country music and rock and it's really interesting.
I don't think it's really possible to be a folk musician today without having been influenced by them to some degree and they took from everywhere. You definitely can't play "white rock music." It doesn't exist. The closest would be classical metal like Yngwie but he was a fan of Deep Purple and they were listening to the blues like everyone else.

What happened is that very quickly phonographs went from about $200 to about $10 and record companies needed "race music" and "hillbilly music" to sell to people that now owned record players. They started recording everybody.
Then radio became affordable and widespread. You could turn the dial and hear all kinds of music. You didn't have to go to a black church to hear black gospel. And while the blues was considered dangerous, white musicians could listen to it on their radios and learn to play it on their instruments.
Country, Blues, and Rock music shares a lot of the same chord progressions. What makes it different is the scales played over it. But a natural musician will pick up on these things.

The only way you could possibly be a white folk musician playing white folk music unaffected by black influences and blues would be if you were somehow raised in an artificial environment as a test case.

perfect :thumb:

This is not true. I know you read it somewhere once and took it as the truth but it's not something you'll be able to back up if I press you on it. Yes, The Stones were influenced by black musicians, that does not mean every white man or woman who played the guitar was too. The Stones are a unique case anyway since their entire act was lifted wholesale from black American blues musicians. There are numerous white rock acts whose lineage you can't trace back to Robert Johnson or whoever. England has a rich folk tradition, so does the Appalachian area of the USA, along with for instance Spain which is the country most closely associated with the six string acoustic guitar. Black American blues musicians are not the be all and end all, and guitar based music did not begin with them, so you know where you can shove your revisionist history lesson don't you. Anyway rock music would have died a sorry death half a century ago if white people didn't revolutionise it. Most of your favourite acts from the 1960s to today wouldn't exist without white innovation. So say "thank you, white people". Go on, say it. "Thank you for your innovative music which gave me something to base my identity around, otherwise I'd have nothing."

Sorry, but ultimately.....


All music is black music.

:cool:
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><><><><>

NealCassidy

FREE SPEECH #FBPB
A

Anonymous

Guest
Folk. gospel. and blues became rock. You really can't be a rock musician without having been influenced by musicians who were influenced by black musicians. It's insane to even try to make that point. I can't imagine what your motivation would be. :rolleyes:

You can be a folk musician hypothetically who has somehow never heard the radio but you'd also have to have parents who had quite carefully created a collection of recordings for you. You think Appalachian folk music is exclusively white? When would that have even been possible?

Read a book about The Carter Family called "Will You Miss Me When I'm Gone." It's got the history of pop, the history of radio, the history of how folk turned into country music and rock and it's really interesting.
I don't think it's really possible to be a folk musician today without having been influenced by them to some degree and they took from everywhere. You definitely can't play "white rock music." It doesn't exist. The closest would be classical metal like Yngwie but he was a fan of Deep Purple and they were listening to the blues like everyone else.

What happened is that very quickly phonographs went from about $200 to about $10 and record companies needed "race music" and "hillbilly music" to sell to people that now owned record players. They started recording everybody.
Then radio became affordable and widespread. You could turn the dial and hear all kinds of music. You didn't have to go to a black church to hear black gospel. And while the blues was considered dangerous, white musicians could listen to it on their radios and learn to play it on their instruments.
Country, Blues, and Rock music shares a lot of the same chord progressions. What makes it different is the scales played over it. But a natural musician will pick up on these things.

The only way you could possibly be a white folk musician playing white folk music unaffected by black influences and blues would be if you were somehow raised in an artificial environment as a test case.

You imagine what my motivation could be :rolleyes:. Let me know if you think of anything. I'm sure it will be original. Could it be that I'm a giant racist, perchance? A colossal one? :thumb:

The question was whether it's possible to make rock music without having black influences, my assertion is that it is possible and has been done countless times. Also, just because you've listened to something doesn't mean you're thereafter "influenced" by it. Quentin Tarantino could watch a Michael Crichton adaptation but it doesn't make Inglorious Basterds influenced by Jurassic Park.

Some Beatles music was influenced by black music because they chose to be influenced by it, like they later chose to incorporate Indian sitar-based music into their songs. But then there's 'Blackbird', 'Norwegian Wood', 'Eleanor Rigby'. A lot of the Sgt. Peppers album looks back to Music Hall for inspiration; what black blues act do you think 'A Day In the Life' can be traced back to? Or 'Waterloo Sunset' by The Kinks. 'The Village Green Preservation Society' is distinctively English. I've never listened to The Beach Boys later chamber pop music and thought "this owes so much to black musicians!", either. Elvis was influenced by Arthur Cruddup but then there are songs like 'Wooden Heart' which display no blues influences.

Morrissey heard plenty of black music but consciously chose not to use its influence in The Smiths, the same goes for his attitude toward non-white sleeve stars and literary references. He was making white music for white people (something Billy Corgan later stated he was also doing), even if Johnny Marr wasn't fully aware of it. It was part of the appeal of The Smiths, you and Ketamine Sun wouldn't be here otherwise. 'Back to the Old House' has nothing in common with negro spirituals, and 'Suffer Little Children' doesn't use Son House as a reference point.

There's also Tin Pan Alley where many white people and Jews wrote the songs which filled the airwaves for the first half of the 20th century. Like you alluded to, much of heavy metal has few black influences, and the same goes for electronic music which can be traced to white pioneers of the genre in the early 1900s.

But to pick up a guitar and write songs is not to automatically be influenced by Bukka White or Blind Lemon Jefferson. Outside of the USA, many musicians hadn't heard of them. And many of those old blues guys had been nearly forgotten until white people brought them out of obscurity in the 1950s/60s and got them to make new recordings.
I wouldn't consider a lot of Bluegrass or even some Skiffle music to have black roots either. Working class guys constructing their own instruments and battering out songs on them --there was more English folk influence there than Delta Blues. So Ketamine Sun's most recent "all music is black music" claim is seeming even less coherent with each passing second.

All it amounts to is 'white people have no music of their own', something she'd never say about acts from the Arab world or South-East Asia. She's perhaps the most confused person on this forum. On the one hand she defends Morrissey through thick and thin, no matter what he says. On the other she comes out with these Afrocentric utterances, sounding like Sinead O'Connor after she changed her name and converted to Islam. I don't have time to deal with that!

Anyway my point is that Ketamine Sun's claim is too simplistic and holistic to be correct. Unless she thinks Richard Wagner was somehow influenced by black musicians too? Or Gracie Fields? :crazy:
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
Am I the only one thinking that "...before I die" was an odd phrase to use - almost seeming to suggest that he'll die imminently?
 

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