Folha de S. Paulo mistakenly says Morrissey's mother is dead'

[MORRIZSEY]

Re: Ffs

Yeah, Walter Cronkite! Get outta here you dangerous bastard!

There are many types of journalism. It's wrong to assume tabloid journalism is the same as investigative journalism. Print journalism is not the same as broadcast journalism. News is not the same as documentary.

What you've written is dangerous thinking. It supports the line that we should never question people in power or hold people to account. Journalism should and is (when correctly defined) the 4th estate.

Want to live in a country without journalism? North Korea anyone?

(By the way, this writer is not a journalist. Fact checking in journalism 101.)

Why have I written dangerous thinking? I've questioned the media, and questioned if it is valid

 

[Media Whore]

Re: Ffs

Why have I written dangerous thinking? I've questioned the media, and questioning if it is valid

I must have missed the question mark in your post.

 

[realitybites]

Re: Ffs

Why have I written dangerous thinking? I've questioned the media, and questioned if it is valid

You made a blanket statement condemning the entire profession as a whole.

 

[Media Whore]

Re: Ffs

You made a blanket statement condemning the entire profession as a whole.

Indeed.

 

[MORRIZSEY]

Re: Ffs

You made a blanket statement condemning the entire profession as a whole.

Which statement do you consider blanket, as opposed to a general statement?

 

[realitybites]

Re: Ffs

Which statement do you consider blanket, as opposed to a general statement?

"Absolutely, this is why 'journalism' is dangerous and can't be trusted"

Sounds absolutist to me.

 

[MORRIZSEY]

Re: Ffs

"Absolutely, this is why 'journalism' is dangerous and can't be trusted"

Sounds absolutist to me.

Not 'General'? The use of the word 'absolutely' means to agree

 

[realitybites]

Re: Ffs

Not 'General'? The use of the word 'absolutely' means to agree

"...journalism' is dangerous and can't be trusted"

This part was absolutist... a blanket statement... A statement that is allegedly so self-evidently true that it cannot be argued against, thus extinguishing any debate on the subject under discussion.

 

[MORRIZSEY]

Re: Ffs

"...journalism' is dangerous and can't be trusted"

This part was absolutist... a blanket statement... A statement that is allegedly so self-evidently true that it cannot be argued against, thus extinguishing any debate on the subject under discussion.

Well, I stand by what I said; absolute or blanket is a little extremist with words but "this is why 'journalism' is dangerous and can't be trusted" was in context and I have no reason to take it back. Newspapers report lies on a daily basis and ruin peoples lives for money. Yeah there's some good guys and bad guys, but what I said stands because it's true

 

[Media Whore]

Re: Ffs

Question, statement, blanket statement - it doesn't really matter.

What you said was ill informed and poorly concluded. You asked if questioning the media was valid. It is. You questioned. I responded. I explained that if your conclusion was correct, that "journalism is dangerous and not to be trusted" we would find ourselves living in a North Korea style democracy. What we have now is marginally better.

You can respond what I have said or you can introduce a red herring argument where you talk about sentence structure.

 

[Media Whore]

Re: Ffs

Well, I stand by what I said; absolute or blanket is a little extremist with words but "this is why 'journalism' is dangerous and can't be trusted" was in context and I have no reason to take it back. Newspapers report lies on a daily basis and ruin peoples lives for money. Yeah there's some good guys and bad guys, but what I said stands because it's true

Are you saying The Sun is the same as The Guardian? Is the New York Times the same as the National Enquirer?

Are you saying that we shouldn't have the media at all? After all if you can't trust it, what purpose does it serve?

 

[realitybites]

Re: Ffs

Well, I stand by what I said; absolute or blanket is a little extremist with words but "this is why 'journalism' is dangerous and can't be trusted" was in context and I have no reason to take it back. Newspapers report lies on a daily basis and ruin peoples lives for money. Yeah there's some good guys and bad guys, but what I said stands because it's true

But you didn't say that some journalists or some forms of journalism... you said all journalism. Do you want to retract that?

 

[MORRIZSEY]

Re: Ffs

you said all journalism.

Did I? If I did I'll retract it, but I don't recall saying that to be honest. Where did I say it? This is getting into semantics which isn't very productive other than point scoring, which is for kids. I'll carry on with the discussion if you want. It's getting late here though so may have to continue tomorrow

 

[realitybites]

Re: Ffs

Did I? If I did I'll retract it, but I don't recall saying that to be honest. Where did I say it? This is getting into semantics which isn't very productive other than point scoring, which is for kids. I'll carry on with the discussion if you want. It's getting late here though so may have to continue tomorrow

You didn't type the word all. But that was what was implied. But you are claiming that was not the message you wish to have delivered. So I believe you. All is well.

 

[MORRIZSEY]

Re: Ffs

You didn't type the word all. But that was what was implied. But you are claiming that was not the message you wish to have delivered. So I believe you. All is well.

Yeah, but, what was inferred is different to what was written. I mentioned that journalists tell lies and ruin peoples lives, and they do

 

[realitybites]

Re: Ffs

Yeah, but, what was inferred is different to what was written. I mentioned that journalists tell lies and ruin peoples lives, and they do

Some journalists tell lies... ruin lives. Others expose secrets... save lives.

 

[MORRIZSEY]

Re: Ffs

Some journalists tell lies... ruin lives. Others expose secrets... save lives.

If I said "People commit crimes", it wouldn't implicate all people as criminals. I don't really see the problem

 

[realitybites]

Re: Ffs

If I said "People commit crimes", it wouldn't implicate all people as criminals. I don't really see the problem

Men rape women.

Morrissey fans are gay.

You don't see the flaw in all those statements? You cannot claim that all members of those groups share those characteristics/engage in those behaviors. Just like not all journalists lie. You need to use a qualifier such as some, most, many etc. This is language 101.

 

[MORRIZSEY]

Re: Ffs

Men rape women.

Morrissey fans are gay.

You don't see the flaw in all those statements? You cannot claim that all members of those groups share those characteristics/engage in those behaviors. Just like not all journalists lie. You need to use a qualifier such as some, most, many etc. This is language 101.

I don't really see why it's an issue. I said journalists lie, and didn't point the finger at any individuals. The point was having to filter the truth in every newspaper story

 

[Mozzer's Left Eyebrow]

Re: Ffs

Are you saying The Sun is the same as The Guardian? Is the New York Times the same as the National Enquirer?

Are you saying that we shouldn't have the media at all? After all if you can't trust it, what purpose does it serve?

I think they are all essentially the same things, if you look at a map of Kensington you will see the office for the Daily Mail backs onto (and is part of the same building as) the office for The Independent. They also do Metro and Evening Standard in there. You can't trust the news, not about anything of note anyway. At least you know where you stand with the North Korea Gazette.

You are all squabbling too much on here. This Morrizsey person is right though, if you work for an organisation like that and you know what goes on, they're you're guilty as sin. Same as the BBC being chock-a-block with kiddie fiddlers, even Esther Rantzen didn't pipe up. Obviously not all journalists (or lawyers) are corrupt but if you worked for someone that was up to no good and you knew of it then you're also to blame.