Foals

A person who falls for that really isn't all that sophisticated.

Well, more sophisticated than the housewife buying detergent in the 1950s, let's say. Consumers in an age in which the mechanism of advertising has been laid bare.

Also, there's a line of thinking that suggests nobody falls for it, even when they buy the product advertised. Nobody with brand loyalty to Apple actually believes Apple is a 'good' company, yet they all believe Apple is a 'good' company. Just as nobody believes in the financial system anymore, but we all believe in it.

I much prefer to see computers and gadgets as menial tools developed by balding white-coated engineers, and regard the status that attaches to an Apple gadget as a threat.

Yes, but then again you're far too sane to comprise a representative population sample. :rolleyes:

And I think of young, hip, technologically savvy, artistic dudes worth millions who still works out of San Francisco coffeehouses as people who should get a life, concentrate on what they're supposed to be doing and stop mucking about in coffehouses, unless what they're there for is to relax and enjoy a cup of coffee with friends. :)

Well, let's look at your hostility to these coffeehouse guys and gals. :)

Can you honestly criticize someone who doesn't sit cooped up in an office, goes from coffeehouse to coffeehouse working on a laptop, travels frequently, conducts a vibrant social life, lives within the bounds of his or her conscience, has an eye for bringing design elements into his or her life, and gets paid well to boot?

In all seriousness, that kind of life is almost impossible to criticize. It's not even as execrable a life as the yuppies of the 80s; it's like a rehabilitated yuppie life, recalibrated to leave out the bad and retain the good. And yet it is criticized by some, and seen as symptomatic of a grave problem. Is there a paradox here, maybe a very revealing paradox? Or am I missing something?

Foals.
 
Also, there's a line of thinking that suggests nobody falls for it, even when they buy the product advertised.

I've noticed that advertising has become remarkably self-conscious. Some commercials come right out and say, "This isn't really a commercial." There is a big new wireless service (how funny that wireless has an entirely new definition since 1930!) launching in Chicago whose radio spots were voiced by a very "regular," approachable, friendly female voice who matter-of-factly says, "This isn't a commercial. It's more of a... heads-up, to let you know about..."

Then you have the Superbowl Syndrome commercials. Since so many people avoid commercials by Tivoing or streaming their favorite shows, commercials have had to become so outrageous, silly, or funny that people who do see them will send youtube links to their friends. They've become almost like trading cards. I'm thinking of the new batch of Old Spice commercials--I don't really watch TV, I was sent a link on Facebook.

Commercials also blatantly mock the entire "commercial" aesthetic--as in that Old Spice commercial. First they were putting George Hamilton in ads, just for the wink-wink-nudge-nudge camp factor, now the entire spot is one big in-joke. They're saying, "We know you're too smart to fall for a commercial." They know that you're not going to buy a particular cleanser because you aspire to the sparkling clean life pictured in the ads. But they're still getting people to buy, by overtly circumventing these conventions. It makes me wonder what the next step in marketing will be.

Can you honestly criticize someone who doesn't sit cooped up in an office, goes from coffeehouse to coffeehouse working on a laptop, travels frequently, conducts a vibrant social life, lives within the bounds of his or her conscience, has an eye for bringing design elements into his or her life, and gets paid well to boot?

In all seriousness, that kind of life is almost impossible to criticize. It's not even as execrable a life as the yuppies of the 80s; it's like a rehabilitated yuppie life, recalibrated to leave out the bad and retain the good. And yet it is criticized by some, and seen as symptomatic of a grave problem. Is there a paradox here, maybe a very revealing paradox? Or am I missing something?

Qvist isn't American. This is not a criticism. Part of the American identity comes from our work ethic. You are always told you are supposed to have a job you're "passionate" about. You are identified by what you do for a living, and the idealized American life is one that finds all fulfillment in work. There are a number of problems with this blurring of roles. One is that the implication is that if your work doesn't make you happy, it's your fault. You're in the wrong job, or you're just not really committed to it, or you're not working hard enough. You're not really meant to want more. Another problem is that it doesn't allow us our own identities. You're not allowed to go home. There becomes less separation between your personal life and your work life. To not care about work is unAmerican.

I bring up the fact that Qvist isn't American, because I believe that most European societies don't have that intense pressure to identify with your work. People go to work, do their work, and then go home and live their lives. I'm not saying they don't work as hard, I just feel that there's a fundamental difference in what "work ethic" means.

So these nouveau yups are perverting both their personal lives and their work lives by blending them so completely. And we could argue that they are harming themselves in giving so much of themselves to their employers. They're serving Capitalism and not their own souls. The system is perfectly constructed to reinforce the needs of the corporation over the needs of the individual, because not wanting to give "110%" at work is now a moral crime.

In the interests of full disclosure, I just interviewed at a huge software firm. I soon hope to be a corporate cog. Because I need to pay rent.

Yay Foals!
 
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Also, there's a line of thinking that suggests nobody falls for it, even when they buy the product advertised. Nobody with brand loyalty to Apple actually believes Apple is a 'good' company, yet they all believe Apple is a 'good' company. Just as nobody believes in the financial system anymore, but we all believe in it.

Well, you could offer other and more pragmatic explanations for that. For instance, Apple products are on the whole more user friendly than most of the competition, and if you're used to they way they work and like it, you'll tend to stick with it on the much underrated grounds of practicality. For my part I have more than once considered switching to Apple computers out of sheer exasperation with the endless and escalating aggravations connected with Windows. And we continue to believe in the financial system because we have no other choice, and probably also because we all realise at a practically animal level that if we stop doing so, everything will fall apart.

Well, let's look at your hostility to these coffeehouse guys and gals.

Can you honestly criticize someone who doesn't sit cooped up in an office, goes from coffeehouse to coffeehouse working on a laptop, travels frequently, conducts a vibrant social life, lives within the bounds of his or her conscience, has an eye for bringing design elements into his or her life, and gets paid well to boot?

In all seriousness, that kind of life is almost impossible to criticize. It's not even as execrable a life as the yuppies of the 80s; it's like a rehabilitated yuppie life, recalibrated to leave out the bad and retain the good. And yet it is criticized by some, and seen as symptomatic of a grave problem. Is there a paradox here, maybe a very revealing paradox? Or am I missing something?


PFTLT already nailed a large part of it - this is the sort of lifestyle chosen by people who choose to make their job their life, which is the only reason I can imagine why anyone would choose to conduct work in a setting that is constructed to serve enjoyment, relaxation and social life.

Not in the classic workaholic sense, because they find work so addictively absorbing that they have no room for anything else - in that case, they'd be happier with an office and scorn the coffehouse atmosphere and the vibrant social life. That would be respectable in a way, if also somewhat sad. Nor because they have chosen a job that corresponds to and blends in with some other laudable purpose in life, which is always respectable but rarely profitable.

But in the end, I guess I just have a fundamental and instinctive distrust of the sort of people who seem to think their brains will stop working unless they are constantly surrounded by social hubbub. To me, that amounts to escapism and self-mutilation at best, soullessness and questionable sanity at worst.

As for bringing design elements (broadly speaking) into one's life, that's actually in my opinion an excellent benchmark for people. To care nothing at all for that despite having the opportunity for it usually indicates a personality devoid of a capacity for appreciating beauty. The sort of people I like generally tend to treat it as the object of moderate interest and expense (relative to means). Then there's the sort of people who regard it with ravished fascination and spend the better part of their means and creative energy constantly updating their apartment. Which I suspect is the same sort of people who enjoys working out of coffehouses. And which is really nothing more than a slightly more elaborate form of having to have a bigger car than the neighbour. To put a sense for aesthetics to such uses is in my book far, far worse than the crassest fifties-type materialism, and considerably less respectable than having no aesthetic sense at all.

And just in case you are now about to inform me that you make a living working out of coffehouses yourself, let me state in advance that in that case you must clearly be an exception to the general rule. :)

I bring up the fact that Qvist isn't American, because I believe that most European societies don't have that intense pressure to identify with your work. People go to work, do their work, and then go home and live their lives. I'm not saying they don't work as hard, I just feel that there's a fundamental difference in what "work ethic" means.

There may be something in that, though I lack first-hand experience with American business life. But it's certainly moving in that direction in Europe too, although I think it is still considered normal by most people most places to mentally make a fundamental distinction between private life and work. The most common exception is still the classic workaholic, not the socialabourite, but of course he differs in that he drops private life practically altogether rather than blend private life into it.

But there are huge contrasts within Europe. In the south, you still largely have the classic "come in at ten, go home at eight/nine" model, with a long lunch break in the middle of the day. In Scandinavia, you generally have a less than 40 hours compulsory working week - people come in at nine, have a 20 minute sandwich break at midday and go home at four, with extensive use of flexitime to enable picking up of kids in kindergarten and so on. Combined with a generally goal-oriented management style which means that nobody really pays much attention to how much time you spend in the office as long as you get the job done. I'm a firm fan of the latter model. I think very few people really have the capacity for much more than six hours really effective work in a day over the long haul, and if you keep them around for much more than that they simply pace themselves accordingly. Or start moving bits of their private life into work.

cheers

Did I mention that I quite like the Foals' Gold Gold Gold?
 
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Jesus, I can say what I want. I didn't say the Smiths were wholly original. In fact, I stressed how recognizable they were. They were just the first band that struck ME in a new way.

So... uh... go jump off a cliff, K? I've had a bad day.

amazing how someone can be so mature and not boring. it really is inspiring.

pardon the interruption, continue on with the stream of consciousness ramblings.
 

this link is evil, but it's easy enough to track down.

i need a few more listens to form a real opinion, but it's certainly not grabbing me by the balls like Antidotes. the biggest letdown by far is the production on Alabaster. they've been playing the song for at least a year now and live it's a "classic" uptempo, lock groove Foals track. on the album it's a dirge with a tease of the riff at the beginning

i dunno if this is an overbearing producer or a young band trying too hard to change things up.
 
well, i received the deluxe boxset edition, including a pointless second disc of noodling, some unreadable lyrics along with a very interesting but insultingly short DVD (which included no videos/promos) contained in a snazzy flip-top box

i've listened to the album 3 times in full now...it really is awful. there is no such thing as a "stand out track" on TLF, but the least terrible/semi-listenable ones are Miami, Black Gold and Spanish Sahara.

i appreciate a band that evolves with each album, but TLF seems like a step backwards. most bands release the safe album first, then start to experiment. Foals released the odd dancepunkmathrock record with chirping insect guitars and sparse bass lines first then followed it up with the radio friendly Vampire Weekend does Red Hot Chili Peppers album

i wonder if Morrissey fans felt this way after Kill Uncle first came out? well imagine paying $50 for the special edition of Kill Uncle :sick:
 
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