Flac vs. Mp3 debate

Well, it would be better to take a different attitude next time a taper presents a new recording, don't you think?

David...My problem was when those two blokes (pardon my American-accent), came around and started telling everyone NOT to circulate it as MP3...if I recall, the original uploader wasn't doing that to people....so all my remarks were initally directed at them...I have since expressed my apologies to the recorder if he took offense...

You're missing the point. Even if you don't think it's a great recording, it doesn't mean that it wasn't broadcast by a radio station in FM. This was a local radio station 27 years ago. And, by the way, you are faulting the original uploader since it was he who labelled it as FM.

I understand the point, the FM label is misleading...even if it was broadcast by a radio station 22 years ago, we should catorgize and label it based on how it sounds NOW. When I saw the FM label, I thought wow...Another soundboard recording...and in FLAC, as well...this is gonna sound awesome...then to hear it sound just as bad as the CD I forked over $25 15 years ago for (Maybe I should be taking my anger out on the salesman who sold me the CD???), I was expremely disappointed....Just a suggestion, David....relabel the torrent to indicate it is not STEREO/SOUNDBOARD quality...

BTW, if you've seen my uploads, I have taken the time to credit both the uploader/recorders and Smiths Torrents...so I do appreciate all...I just hate the attitude as much as some people have started to hate mine...And Even I'm starting to hate my attitude..I just really hate control freaks, and that's how those guy came across...
 
SNS-

I guess you don't get it. Or won't get it. Your choice.

There has been a call for a different approach, a softer attitude. That's been ignored. I can assure you that road will lead nowhere.

And, in the meantime, rather than pull our resources, people are divided and the real gems remain circulated privately. At the end of the day, I find that terribly unfortunate.

- unrulyboy -
 
Regarding the FM recording, you know that Stephane has it down as an FM too? If its from an FM broadcast then its lineage is FM.


I've seen your uploads
and it's really only recently that you've credited where you downloaded the recording and rarer still where you've actually named the taper. I'm glad you've started though.

About 90% have come from here...and I really couldn't tell you who the original posters were...

As for the tapers...unless it's from Smiths Torrents and has a txt file attached, I don't think I would have any idea who they were...I'm just grateful for their work...

Obviously, we're not going to agree about the recording, I just think it's a bit deceiving, as a I said was disappointed to hear a "FM" recording sound worse than many confirmed audience recordings...

I applaud your civility David, as you have conducted yourself in a very professional manner...

Now I'm sounding Schitzophrenic...
 
SNS-

I guess you don't get it. Or won't get it. Your choice.

There has been a call for a different approach, a softer attitude. That's been ignored. I can assure you that road will lead nowhere.

And, in the meantime, rather than pull our resources, people are divided and the real gems remain circulated privately. At the end of the day, I find that terribly unfortunate.

- unrulyboy -

I'm A bit perplexed why we seem to be at odds when we seem to agree on basic principles...

Yes I let myself get bent out of shape, but when I feel I and/or someone else is being bullied...I really won't tolerate it...

As I stated in on my one rational post...those people really just need to relax instead of treating their orignal FLAC recordings like the "holy grail" ( I said it again...heh)...They still have their FLAC copy and nobody is going to force them to listen to MP3...
 
it seems ironic that someone who complains so vociferously about the quality of an old FM recording, is at the same time saying we should ignore the quality difference between lossless and lossy files.

When the Smiths stuff was recorded, there was only cassette tape and the post. Each time a recording was copied and traded, the quality would decrease noticably. So it was quite possible to get a recording sourced from the soundboard, which after many copies sounded worse that a master audience recording. It was understood that the source of a recording and the quality of the sound did not neccessarily corrolate.

An FM recording has many variables. How the orginal recording was mixed ... some stations used to mix up the audience to make it sound more live on air for instance. How good was the radio signal. 80s English local radio didn't have much range, so signals could be pretty crap. What was it captured on ... equipment in the 80s wasn't always that great. Given those things, and then add a few generations of copying, and you could quite likely have an FM broadcast that didn't sound that great ... especially compared to something recorded today from satellite radio, which has always been in the digital domain.

Some of us unreasonable tapers from the old school, who for some unfathomable reason seem to care about the sound quality of our bootlegs, do differentiate between the source of a show, and it's quality. We like to know the lineage of a recording as much as possible, so that we can work out if we can get a better quality version of a recording. This is why many of us don't like to have lossy versions of the files widely circulated. Once you have an MP3 of a file ... you've chucked away most of the information which you'll never get back. Recordings may be coverted back and forth between various formats, each time getting worse and worse ... not unlike casette generations in a way.

Then someone ungreatful soul comes along, downloads a crap MP3 and complains what a load of shit the recorder is.

I understand that poeple want to listen to MP3s. But surely they want good quality MP3s? Why not download the lossless version and convert it to MP3 to listen to. OK ... I know a lot of people can't be bothered. They want everything for free and they want it now. I know asking people to not convert things to MP3 is pointless ... once the cat is out of the bag ... its out! But I also understand why people ask that.

Its mainly beacuse the people who are most vocal about MP3s are so obnoxious about it. Tapers spend a lot of time, effort and money to make the best recordings they can. They do it beacuse they love the music, and think that its worth preserving. I think the Smiths were the best live band that ever played, and I've tried to document as much of that as I can. To me, part of that is getting other people to hear the stuff I've recorded, which I'm happy to share with everyone for free.

It pisses me off when I come on sites like this to see so many of my shows here, which have been converted to MP3 by someone who effectively claims ovwnership of the recording beacuse they did the conversion. I've seen so many posts by self important people who are pretty much saying ... I'm such a great guy, here's another recording I've provided for you, more great work from me. As if it was particularly hard to go over to smithtorrents, download a flac version, and convert it to MP3. Then they go on to call them fascists because they care about the quality of their rercordings. Its not the fact they are now in MP3 ... its the attitude.

So I can understand that people decide not to 'share' their recordings any more. I trade with many people, who let me have stuff that's not generally available on the understanding that I won't trade it on. I can tell you that you're missing out on some really great stuff ... and the majority aren't sharing this stuff beacuse of the attitudes shown in places like this.

Personally, I've decided to ignore you as much as possible. When I read some of the posts in threads like this, I feel like saying ... f*** you, I can't be bothered to give you anything else. But ultimately, the reason I got into this in the first place was to document and share ... so I'm not going to let a few self-important loud mouths spoil things for everyone.

How many of you have actually contributed anything to the bootleg pool? Probably not many. How hard is it then to have some manners and show the people who did all the hard work, creating the recording you enjoy, a bit of respect.
 
Steve-

Well said, and as someone who knows who you are, and just how much you have contributed to the boots we all enjoy, I'm deeply grateful to you.

Please don't let the shameful attitudes of a few overshadow the gratitude so many of us feel for your efforts.

Thanks for what you do. It's deeply appreciated and has made a meaningful mark on the lives of many, even those without the sense or humility to be grateful.

Viva Morrissey!

- unrulyboy -
 
Amid all of my expedient auratory gasses, I did state what is the heart of the issue...

MP3s should be allowed to circulate freely without people peering over the shoulders complaining about "lossy-ness", "shitty format", and saying "shame, shame we know your name"...etc...To act in such a matter is as Fascist as the people who would shut down music circulation in the first place...

People should have the choice of which they want to download.....Smiths Torrents among other sites is avaliable for people who wish to go that route...As long as even one person has a copy of FLAC, it will not be Lost...

I (as well as everyone else) appreciates the fact that you will continue to share, in spite of your feelings towards MP3...

Others have chosen to act like a Scooby-Doo villian..."You didn't heed my warning...now you shall pay!' and have refused to share anymore

It's all so childish...If the original was been altered/damaged, I can understand being upset...but in the free society we live in, people are free to choose...


That's what I advocate...Freedom Of Choice...If someone asks for MP3, I give them MP3...If someone wanted a FLAC of a concet I own on CD, I would attempt to provide them with it...

My remarks about the Manchester Palace show were merely to illustrate a point...at any bit rate it doesn't sound like FM Stereo (and in my opinion), should have a disclaimer to advise those downloading that the quality has degraded...

Unlike many other radio broadcasts of that era (18 May Oxford 1985), 20 July 1986 Manchester, 23 Oct 1986 Kilburn)...Personally I think my CD "Last Of The English Roses" (Audience Recording) is of much better quality...
 
You seem to have missed my point.

The MP3 vs Flac thing is almost a secondary thing. You are being rude and ungreatful, and deliberately antagonistic to these people. You should not be surprised therefore, when they decide not to share things with you anymore.

The FM thing is almost comic. It was labelled as FM because it was sourced from an FM recording. If you had read the info/thread discussion with the download (I notice you never redistribute the info text when you upload the MP3 version), it discusses the quality issues. You argue that quality is unimportant (MP3 vs flac) and then complain that the quality isn't what you expect. Personally I think a good audience recording can be more enjoyable than a FM/Soundboard. A good recording is a good recording, regardless of source.

ps ... like the way you say 'my cd'. Did you record the show?
 
Steve-

The issue of the attitude has been missed, and I don't suspect that will change. Rather that see the heart of what's being said, and realize what bridges are being burned, the same point about being able to convert to mp3 gets repeated (again and again and again and again).

It's not that the issue hasn't been made clear. It's just that some aren't willing to listen.

Though the greater issue of the attitude is being lost on some, others get it. Really. And most of us know that a little bit of respect goes a long way.

And yes, the irony of SNS debating quality of the "FM broadcast", while bashing the so-called "FLAC lords", is quite clear. And it would almost be funny if it weren't so ridiculous.

- unrulyboy -
 
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You seem to have missed my point.

The MP3 vs Flac thing is almost a secondary thing. You are being rude and ungreatful, and deliberately antagonistic to these people. You should not be surprised therefore, when they decide not to share things with you anymore.

The FM thing is almost comic. It was labelled as FM because it was sourced from an FM recording. If you had read the info/thread discussion with the download (I notice you never redistribute the info text when you upload the MP3 version), it discusses the quality issues. You argue that quality is unimportant (MP3 vs flac) and then complain that the quality isn't what you expect. Personally I think a good audience recording can be more enjoyable than a FM/Soundboard. A good recording is a good recording, regardless of source.

ps ... like the way you say 'my cd'. Did you record the show?

The CD I OWN...silly

True...maybe I AM being Antagonistic...but who came into the forums practically demanding that people not convert THEIR shows...and went on to complain about Lossy-ness...ETC...ETC.... ETC

As Boy Racer said...the same damn thing happens every time a new recording surfaces and the question is are we going to tolerate it? Are we going to bend over and say..oh no we won't convert YOUR precious recording???

Seriously, this whole thing is a week old...we need to just move on already...
 
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SNS-

Keep it up. And soon there won't be any new recordings surfacing, or anything to "tolerate".

I guess we'll know where to send the thank you cards, won't we?

- unrulyboy -
 
SNS-

Keep it up. And soon there won't be any new recordings surfacing, or anything to "tolerate".

I guess we'll know where to send the thank you cards, won't we?

- unrulyboy -

I guess it's easier to blame me than the selfish pricks who feel the need to come over here and "bully" us...mind you I will not bow to someone's "demands" that THEIR recordings not be converted...if the people want Mp3, then let them have it...

I rest my case...

As I stated...Let's move on already and quit beating a dead horse...
 
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Definition of a selfish prick - Someone who thinks only of themselves, while ignoring the affect their actions have on others.

Sound familiar?

Yeah, let's move on.

- unrulyboy -
 
Definition of a selfish prick - Someone who thinks only of themselves, while ignoring the affect their actions have on others.

Sound familiar?

Yeah, let's move on.

- unrulyboy -

Sorry, If I got so beligerent about the issue...I just was really bugged by what happened and I felt like we were being "ordered" not to do something, and I really can't deal with something like that...

Moving on...

I'm posting something in the morning that I haven't seen on here in quite some time...

Hopefully, people will be pleased :)
 
you really are a obnoxious self-important idiot aren't you.

These 'precious recordings' are the source of everything you upload here. If you piss off the people who record the shows, they won't upload them anymore.

Personally I think it's inevitable that things will get converted to MP3. But if you deliberately go out to be rude and self riteous to these people they will stop sharing their recordings.

Do you ever stop to think why there are no good audience recordings of recent tours around for download. The stuff that's available is mainly crap quality mini-disc recorded in someone's pocket. There are good recordings around ... but you won't see them available for download ... and that's directly because of people like you.

They still get traded with other people who record stuff, and care about the taping comunity. But they will never be available to people who just want a quick download.

So carry on calling the people who do all the work selfish and get on your high horse about 'not being told what to do'. You've probably done enough now to make sure these things never get uploaded for public consumtion. You must be really proud of yourself.

Now ... I'm going before you wind me up enough to want stop uploading anything else.
 
If you can't read...We've dropped this issue....
 
And This Issue Is Now Closed.........

Flac vs. Mp3 debate
Views: 689
Posted By BoyRacer
Re: Flac vs. Mp3 debate

Nope......... battle it out. For fun, to relieve stress, to make a point... just making a statement some would say stirring the pot!

Br




and you must be very happy to organize quarrels and make people fight with each other.... little devil.
 
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and you must be very happy to organize quarrels and make people fight with each other.... little devil.


just attempting to see if we cant find some common ground between parties so that everyone understands eachothers point of view. Thats all.

SEACREST OUT.

BR
 
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