Even Better New Marr Song...screams Smiths

Jeff196

Junior Member

I believe that in the Guardian interview when Marr says that Morrissey and he no longer have reasons to talk - even though they did talk as recently as 2 years ago - I believe that The Messenger was meant to be a Marr/ Morrissey record...but Moz backed out.

Shame great sounding songs....Good luck to Johnny. This collection of songs are among the best I have heard in a while.
 
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mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
Certainly my favorite of "The Messenger" songs we've heard so far. Slightly better lyrics, great atmosphere, love the vocal outro.
Has a sort of REM feel, dunnit?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I agree i think Johnny was hoping this was going to be a Morrissey/Marr record but Moz wasn't keen. Did "the messenger" (the single) make the charts anywhere? Anyone know the placing?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I agree i think Johnny was hoping this was going to be a Morrissey/Marr record but Moz wasn't keen. Did "the messenger" (the single) make the charts anywhere? Anyone know the placing?
'The Messenger' is not a single. The first single from the album will be 'Upstarts'.
 

Jamie

Bluff, Ardour & Assoc.
I know there is a certain faction of Smithdom that have taken to slagging Johnny's latest efforts as their sport du jour but, quite frankly, if Morrissey is allowed to coast on his meager latter-day efforts, I can give JM's lyrics/vocals a pass all day if the melodies are this solid. And, if it sounds too much like the Smiths, well, he created that sound. Why shouldn't years of pale imitators make way for the original? (To clarify upfront to avoid confusion: when I reference "pale imitators," I mean Smiths-aping groups, not Alain or B. Boorer.)
 

Mozza220559

Surmontil 50
It makes me think what a waste that Morrissey apparently didn't want any part in this album, how true that is I'm not sure but it could have been marvellous, imagine hearing his seasoned voice and new exciting lyrics over these luscious Marr melodies? I by no means want The Smiths to reform but I think at least that Morrissey and Marr could collaborate together on a few tracks or Johnny could guest guitar on a few tracks on Moz's next release. It'd be soooo good! Because their styles have evolved over the years it would sound so fresh but retain that Moz/Marr distinct sound.

Moz being so ruddy stubborn though won't even give it a go with Marr with a couple of tracks, why? He seems set in his way now keeping Boz & Tobias and only replacing the drummer and keyboardist from time to time.

I might have to get this Marr album though, I've heard nowt but positive reviews on it.
 

Qvist

Active Member
Surely this is pretty pedestrian stuff? Nice-sounding, but inconsequential. Just the same 4 chords applied sort of lazily and with no development or passion. Pointless. Radio filler. I really have a hard time envisaging Morrissey doing vocals on something this tame.
 

Mozza220559

Surmontil 50
Surely this is pretty pedestrian stuff? Nice-sounding, but inconsequential. Just the same 4 chords applied sort of lazily and with no development or passion. Pointless. Radio filler. I really have a hard time envisaging Morrissey doing vocals on something this tame.
Whilst I agree it maybe a little tame I doesn't hide the fact that it's far better than what the Tobias and Boorer clan are currently bashing out during this US tour, yeah it maybe a looping melody with not many chord changes or breaks, It's nice though to hear Marr pick over a strummed main melody, giving us these wonderful jangly, vintage clean tones, it's something he's really good at. I think the voice needs to be more desperate and passioned with brilliant lyrics (Morrisseys domain) and the song needs to build to more of a climax.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I've been listening to the bad live recordings of Johnny's new stuff...

Music. It's like Johnny never lost any of the magic he's had since The Smiths. I would go far as saying his backing tracks are better than anything Moz has released since Your Arsenal.

Lyrics. He has grown since the Healers days, his lyrics vary from averagely pleasant to surprisingly good.

Vocals and vocal hooks. I actually like his voice better than what Moz's has grown into, it's a vast improvement over the old Healers....The most important thing is that the vocal melodies are really catchy and strong, as strong as anything Morrissey has come up with in recent years.

Production of the new songs. Excellent. Far better than Morrissey's, especially considering Morrissey hiring the best of the best.

So if this were a competition I'd give a slight edge to Johnny. Morrissey still has great lyrics (sometimes), but the lack of having a solid musical foundation really hurts him.

Johnny is like Brian Wilson; great, catchy but brilliantly layered, disposable pop made for mainstream consumption.

Morrissey is like John Lennon; high minded lyrics, with good enough music to sell his words, made for the intellect and the heart.

I don't think they need each other anymore. I like what they are doing on their own now.
 

Qvist

Active Member
I've been listening to the bad live recordings of Johnny's new stuff...

Music. It's like Johnny never lost any of the magic he's had since The Smiths. I would go far as saying his backing tracks are better than anything Moz has released since Your Arsenal.

Lyrics. He has grown since the Healers days, his lyrics vary from averagely pleasant to surprisingly good.

Vocals and vocal hooks. I actually like his voice better than what Moz's has grown into, it's a vast improvement over the old Healers....The most important thing is that the vocal melodies are really catchy and strong, as strong as anything Morrissey has come up with in recent years.

Production of the new songs. Excellent. Far better than Morrissey's, especially considering Morrissey hiring the best of the best.

So if this were a competition I'd give a slight edge to Johnny. Morrissey still has great lyrics (sometimes), but the lack of having a solid musical foundation really hurts him.

Johnny is like Brian Wilson; great, catchy but brilliantly layered, disposable pop made for mainstream consumption.

Morrissey is like John Lennon; high minded lyrics, with good enough music to sell his words, made for the intellect and the heart.

I don't think they need each other anymore. I like what they are doing on their own now.
Well, admittedly I have only heard the above track, but I for one would rate that as considerably below anything that is on yor or Swords. And that's not because those are such strong albums. This is not Brian Wilson, whose music, unlike the above insipid muck, is quirky and inventive. I am literally unable to imagine Morrissey doing the vocals on it. If he did, I think it would mercilessly expose the lifelessness f it.

Edit: checked out The Messenger. It's a bit better, if still not a lot to get excited about. My two cents.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Surely this is pretty pedestrian stuff? Nice-sounding, but inconsequential. Just the same 4 chords applied sort of lazily and with no development or passion. Pointless. Radio filler. I really have a hard time envisaging Morrissey doing vocals on something this tame.
I think you need to go back and re-listen to Half a Person.
 

Qvist

Active Member
Half a person has a much, much more complex melodic structure than this. Doesn't compare, apart from the tempo.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
It's not how many chords you use, it's what you do with them. There are MASSES of Smiths songs that are essentially just the same basic chord sequence or riff repeated over and over again (eg: The Hand That Rocked the Cradle, Barbarism Begins At Home, Rusholme Ruffians, etc) or plenty of Morrissey solo songs (eg: Girl Least Likely To, Maladjusted, Seasick Yet Still Docked, etc).

Anyway - it's all subjective, innit?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Half a person has a much, much more complex melodic structure than this. Doesn't compare, apart from the tempo.
I'm assuming you don't play a musical instrument; Half a Person doesn't have a "complex melodic structure". The only notable difference is that it has a chorus whereas this new song doesn't. (Repetitive chord sequences without variation formed the basis of some of The Smiths' songs too). Stylistically, this is identical to Half a Person - both are equally "nice-sounding, but inconsequential" and "insipid".
 

Qvist

Active Member
Indeed I don't, and I use the term loosely and laymanly. But fortunately my hearing is not impeded, so I notice that Marr's number consists of the same four chords played in the same order from beginning to end, apart from a brief semi-chorus that is even less engaging than the rest. Whereas HAP does not consist of such a droning loop, whatever the technical structure of the melody. Which is one reason why above song is insipid and HAP is not. Another being the vocals. The suggestion that they are identical is to me self-evidently preposterous. But anyway, what is there to discuss. You have your impression, I have mine, and there are no meaningful criteria.
 

jdbabz

Member
Really love it! We are in for a treat. The melodies are great and I just know it won't be overproduced and layered like years of refusal. I don't think Johnny would have asked Mozza, he's well capable of putting out a great album on his own without a grumpy Moz coming in and taking a very large slice of the pie.
 
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