Don't you think Johnny Marr...

[Scarlet Ibis]

This is a terrible thread. Johnny Marr is a really dear person. Are you forgetting that he was little more than a child when he was in The Smiths? He and Morrissey have a history that none of us knows about. You can't judge him because you don't have all the information. He and Morrissey both hurt each other. For all we know one or both of them is keeping in some huge and hideous secret about the other, purely out of loyalty. You just don't know.

It makes me think back on my former best friend from a similar era of my life. On some level I will always love him, but he's become someone I don't know anymore and I don't think I'd want to know him now. That doesn't make either of us the villain.

 

[Orson Swells]

Think of their creative relationship in the terms of a marriage.

I'm sure that's how Morrissey saw it.

I am certain both Morrissey and Marr would have been successful without each other. Morrissey has proved he can consistently produce brilliant material with other co-writers. Morrissey's lyrics lift Marr's and his every other collaborator's music to another level entirely. Marr's post-Smiths output only pales in comparison because anybody's would minus Morrissey.

There are one or two Electronic songs, and some of his work with Billy Bragg and Kirsty Maccoll, which I think if Morrissey had got his hands on, would have been really great.

 

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

This is a terrible thread. Johnny Marr is a really dear person. Are you forgetting that he was little more than a child when he was in The Smiths? He and Morrissey have a history that none of us knows about. You can't judge him because you don't have all the information. He and Morrissey both hurt each other. For all we know one or both of them is keeping in some huge and hideous secret about the other, purely out of loyalty. You just don't know.

It makes me think back on my former best friend from a similar era of my life. On some level I will always love him, but he's become someone I don't know anymore and I don't think I'd want to know him now. That doesn't make either of us the villain.

This I agree with also.

 

[joe frady]

err, you kind of can. Marr's spent 95% of his post-Smiths time working with well established artists. look at the only thing he's done with unknowns. The Healers. it was absolutely bloody awful. a commercial and critical disaster.

Moz, on the other hand, has spent 95% of his solo period working with little known or virtually unknown artists, and despite having lots of patchy stuff, he's achieved, with these little known songwriters, some of his greatest critical (Vauxhall) and commercial (Quarry) success.

I agree that the average quality of the Smiths songs is higher than Moz 'solo' (especially since 94) but I think we have pretty firm proof that Moz has achieved much more on his own than Marr has, and so it can be argued that Marr needed Morrissey more than Moz needed Marr.
I would also argue that Alain Whyte has written many more great songs than Johnny Marr in the last 15 years (altho he cannot compete with the prime-time Smiths compositions).

This, here.

 

[Orson Swells]

I would also argue that Alain Whyte has written many more great songs than Johnny Marr in the last 15 years (altho he cannot compete with the prime-time Smiths compositions).

I would argue that at the very least "The National Front Disco", "Seasick, Yet Still Docked", " Tomorrow", "Billy Budd", "Hold On To Your Friends", "Why Don't You Find Out For Yourself?", "Nobody Loves Us", "Sunny", "Trouble Loves Me", "The Edges Are No Longer Parallel", "The Never Played Symphonies", "Irish Blood, English Heart", "I Have Forgiven Jesus", "First of the Gang to Die", "Let Me Kiss You", "Life Is A Pigsty", "Something Is Squeezing My Skull", "When Last I Spoke to Carol", "It's Not Your Birthday Anymore" and "My Dearest Love" rank with the very best of the Smiths... although maybe that's for a different thread!

 

[Danny_]

I think Alain is Marr's equal personally. And probably more versatile too.

 

[mcrickson]

Johnny doesn't have "back problems" though.

 

[joe frady]

Johnny doesn't have "back problems" though.

Ooh, you are awful!

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

What do you mean by that? Who is Moz loyal to?

Boz Boorer? He certainly must've resisted calls to get rid of him many many times.

 

[Lonsdale71]

...has always shown a certain lack of respect for Morrissey solo work? I remember I have read somewhere that he isn't even curious to listen to an album of his because he exactly knows what to expect. I think this attitude is rather unrespectful of the man who once shared an important part of his artistic career.

They are 2 completely different people these days. Marr has his own commitments with other bands and Morrissey has his own career. I wouldn't say Marr has been disrespectful in any way.

Such is life. People come and go.

 

[Raphael Lambach]

This is a terrible thread. He and Morrissey have a history that none of us knows about. You can't judge him because you don't have all the information. He and Morrissey both hurt each other.

.

I agree...
We may not - and cannot - judge them.. anyway... it doesn't matter... the music is mightier than fights...

 

[columbula]

It makes me think back on my former best friend from a similar era of my life. On some level I will always love him, but he's become someone I don't know anymore and I don't think I'd want to know him now. That doesn't make either of us the villain.

I'd like to quote this again because it's pretty much perfect.


As for the quality of music between the two... I think that The Smiths stuff is pretty much untouchable. Not only is it intelligent and catchy, the amount of people it has touched is dizzying to think about. But it's frozen in that time. It's sad to say, but knowing this you should automatically lower your expectations for the work put out by them afterward.
So they've both put out pretty good music on their own (granted Morrissey more so than Marr), but it doesn't really meet Smiths-like expectations.

I've had to say this on the board of another artist I follow, Shiina Ringo. She's also got a pretty strong following, but many of the people are disappointed with her new material. This is quite similar because they are comparing it to her first 3 albums, which are again, untouchable. The amount of thinking and maturing those albums display is unmatched. Her new stuff isn't bad, but it doesn't stand the test when you hold it up to her first 3 albums.

 

[Briansd]

you wanna fight??

Only if there is great makeup sex. Don't get me wrong I love Moz. I think his Lyrics are the best out there. I just get sick when I hear all the bitterness directed at Marr. Marr had many reasons to leave The Smiths. Mistake or not.