CrystalGeezer
My secret's my enzyme.
I was distinctly under the impression he was staring at my tits and was blitzed as f***.
Does Moz hate his female fans?
- Thread starter Dusty
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I was distinctly under the impression he was staring at my tits and was blitzed as f***.
Playcat2000
New Member
Well he would have to had to have been blitzed as f*** wouldn’t he? He had to put on his beer goggles.
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CrystalGeezer
My secret's my enzyme.
He wasn't a letch, I'm not building a case for him being a woman hater, he was checking out the goods. He likes women's bodies. And he was extremely polite to me and the other woman who approached him that day...other than the sing-karaoke-at-my-wedding begger who he politely declined four or five times.
I think he drunk writes and channels ghosts that may have been misogynists, but I seriously doubt he's one.
Playcat2000
New Member
I think you are full of shit. This never happened.
A
Anonymous
Guest
When I'm in a generous mood, I pretend to myself that Morrissey does this kind of thing as a misguided wind-up. Sort of just asserting his right to defy political correctness. Which would at least make him a moron and a twat rather than vice versa. But I've never really even managed to convince myself, so I don't expect anyone else to buy it.
Don't agree that this tells us anything about Morrissey's sexual orientation, though. Misogyny is actually not that uncommon in the straight community, if you scratch the surface.
realitybites
making lemonade
"Night after night like an unowned dog I would tear through the park, a creature in human form, all perilous bolt inviting danger, the bike dancing controlled flips as I gulped jets of rain–more danger, more fun. In comparison, what had girls to offer? Nothing but a mangled jungle of tangled hair presented as the jackpot payoff. Honeypots sprawled like open graves, their owners doing nothing at all other than letting you. The call of duty is all yours–to turn on and get off; to hit the spot and know the ropes; to please and be pleased; as the owners of such Bermuda Triangles do... nothing."
That passage is a misogynistic polemic against femaleness. To deny it is delusional. Coming from anyone else, it would read as hate speech. Why do we forgive the writer who pens such a diatribe against our sex? Because he is Morrissey? Yes, because he is Morrissey. But should we? Or should we hold him accountable?
I never cared—still don't—about his sexual orientation. I mean, I never had romantic fantasies to be with the man. Sure he is sexy, charismatic, and handsome. I guess when I first set eyes on him and for a short time after that, there was an attraction. But I am a realist. Wasn't gonna hook-up with him. I had no illusions of such. So it mattered not that he wasn't sexually attracted to women. But not being attracted to them is one thing. Being utterly disgusted by them is another. I assumed, rightfully, that he is gay. This noted passage, along with several others in the book, confirm this for me.
Imagine if he, as a white person, wrote a diatribe against blackness. Alarm bells would go off. But as most of us know, sex/gender is the last form of discrimination that is tolerated—worldwide. You think it isn't? You think we have moved past sex/gender discrimination? No one thinks it is acceptable anymore? Think again. How many of the liberals out there cry out against gender segregation in Islamic societies? Not too many. There is outrage about Palestinians being oppressed by the Israelis. But nobody is talking about liberating the women from male oppression, in this sex segregated society.
What Moz wrote was at the very least, insensitive. I am really glad I am not one to hang on his every word. For if I were, I would be devastated.
Anybody remember when Christopher Hitchens wrote that article claiming women weren't funny? It was a great polemic. I didn't agree with him. Not sure more than a handful of folks did/do. But the Internet lit up light a Christmas tree. And every liberal and conservative newspaper, talk show, and online magazine was discussing it, asking, "Is he sexist?" "Is he a misogynist?" There was careful, intelligent debate. The best of the best voiced their opinions, and wrote articulate retorts.
There isn't much going on debate-wise when it comes to Morrissey's attacks on femaleness. Why? Why the eerie silence in the media? Why the silence here? Actually, the silence on Solo is not surprising. Because, to bring up such a topic results in an idiotic comment such as, "What is the point of this thread?" This type of fan wants to silence the dissenters, the free thinkers, the folks who question things. Bringing these things out in the open threatens to pop their filter bubbles.
What does it mean if Morrissey hates femaleness—at least sexually? Does it change the way we interpret the songs? Is he no longer on our side—a voice for equality? What do Pretty Girls Make Graves and I lost my faith In womanhood look like in this new light? Should we now take them more literally? Reevaluate all the songs? Would doing so ruin the listening experience for many? Yes, I am certain it would. Would it ruin mine? No, not at all. Never saw him as a hero or as a champion for the female sex—and her interests. So, nobody has fallen off a pedestal in my world. I do, however, feel sad for those who did hold Moz to a higher standard, believing him to be a spokesperson for women's rights and issues. This book, surely, was a soul crusher.
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CrystalGeezer
My secret's my enzyme.
Are you shy? Do you understand?
CrystalGeezer
My secret's my enzyme.
Mozza220559
Surmontil 50
I like the way Moz slags off fat people he's a fat sod himself now.
Mozza220559
Surmontil 50
I don't think he's slagging off women in general though, but more the easy, rough women he's probably encountered whilst meandering through Manchester.
realitybites
making lemonade
No straight guy is gonna describe the female genitalia in such unflattering terms. If anything, he--if a poet like Moz--would describe them as sweet rose petals, draping across... . You get the idea.
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A
Anonymous
Guest
The only place I can remember "Bermuda Triangle" being used in this way is in a cheap army movie. I think it might have been Bat 21. There's definitely nothing particularly gay about it. Maybe you've never had the privilege of spending time in a men-only environment.
CrystalGeezer
My secret's my enzyme.
He was describing being confused by it. In a heartbeat I'd describe an uncircumcised penis as a wrinkly old woman with a skin sock on her head because I've never encountered one, but once I had and understood it more and was less intimidated by it I'd love the f*** out of it.
zepfan1
New Member
I am going to play the Devil’s advocate. He likes both as it says in black and white in the book. Do I think that he prefers men, yes but all in all, women as well.
From what I gather from reading the book (3 times) is that his mother seems to have been the only "feminine “influence in his life. She by all accounts was both a father and mother figure to him. Feminine yet strong and classy - Which I am assuming is the type of women he prefers. He has stated himself that he likes strong women.
His description of the female encounters that he has had I think are in direct response to what his mother was – classy, tough, sweet yet determined. Most of them sound like an English version of a honey boo boo woman. They were not elegant, refined or by any means glamorous. His idea maybe was influences by the films that he saw? He mentions CID SHERISE and other women. Anna, the fan in the hotel etc. Kristen Young
Tina, from what I gather is his first adult relationship with a woman that was actually a “relationship” – as he stated he only had scraps and the prospect was daunting to him.
I have seen a picture of her and she is the burlesque scene of the importance of Morrissey video. From reading the book she seems like a generally calm, thoughtful and overall nice person. Her background seems to show that she did not have an easy beginning and from what I gather she is a bit younger than him. Per the internet she is 38 someone said which would make her about 24 or mid-twenties when they were together. I don’t think that she was a mother figure to him. It sounded like a regular relationship to me. He doesn’t go into depth as much as his relationship with Jake but I think Jake was his first love and it was all so new to him. Tina seems to be a rational intelligent and thoughtful person and still a big part of his life. Jake is as well from what I understand. Also why would he put that in the book if it were not true (I am going to get flack ok then) I think Tina would have issue with it if were a farce. He seems to value both of them still.
And again I will say that he prefers both men and women – not big girls – but women as well. He has stated that he can be attracted like any man to a woman. I am just saying what he has said before.
The book does show that he really really doesn’t like fat people. As a former “fatty” myself I don’t necessarily disagree entirely.
I think the point is that he really doesn’t see any distinctinon between a man and a woman as a romantic partner. Humans are humans. The bits and pieces that go with the gender are not so important to him. He does again seem to admire the male form but again in his words he had a late development when it came to women (interview somewhere).
My only hope is that he meets someone – man or woman who makes him happy.
From what I gather from reading the book (3 times) is that his mother seems to have been the only "feminine “influence in his life. She by all accounts was both a father and mother figure to him. Feminine yet strong and classy - Which I am assuming is the type of women he prefers. He has stated himself that he likes strong women.
His description of the female encounters that he has had I think are in direct response to what his mother was – classy, tough, sweet yet determined. Most of them sound like an English version of a honey boo boo woman. They were not elegant, refined or by any means glamorous. His idea maybe was influences by the films that he saw? He mentions CID SHERISE and other women. Anna, the fan in the hotel etc. Kristen Young
Tina, from what I gather is his first adult relationship with a woman that was actually a “relationship” – as he stated he only had scraps and the prospect was daunting to him.
I have seen a picture of her and she is the burlesque scene of the importance of Morrissey video. From reading the book she seems like a generally calm, thoughtful and overall nice person. Her background seems to show that she did not have an easy beginning and from what I gather she is a bit younger than him. Per the internet she is 38 someone said which would make her about 24 or mid-twenties when they were together. I don’t think that she was a mother figure to him. It sounded like a regular relationship to me. He doesn’t go into depth as much as his relationship with Jake but I think Jake was his first love and it was all so new to him. Tina seems to be a rational intelligent and thoughtful person and still a big part of his life. Jake is as well from what I understand. Also why would he put that in the book if it were not true (I am going to get flack ok then) I think Tina would have issue with it if were a farce. He seems to value both of them still.
And again I will say that he prefers both men and women – not big girls – but women as well. He has stated that he can be attracted like any man to a woman. I am just saying what he has said before.
The book does show that he really really doesn’t like fat people. As a former “fatty” myself I don’t necessarily disagree entirely.
I think the point is that he really doesn’t see any distinctinon between a man and a woman as a romantic partner. Humans are humans. The bits and pieces that go with the gender are not so important to him. He does again seem to admire the male form but again in his words he had a late development when it came to women (interview somewhere).
My only hope is that he meets someone – man or woman who makes him happy.
Playcat2000
New Member
The one eyed Shar Pei.
realitybites
making lemonade
You only fear the sight of an uncircumcised penis because a circumcised one is all you know. It is the default setting--the norm, to you. If you grew up in a culture that did not circumcise would the sight of an intact penis be disgusting, appalling? Not if you were sexually attracted to males.
Moz had seen pics of the female genitalia long before seeing a real-life naked woman. My guess was that he actually wrote that passage before he ever had any sexual contact with a woman (that is if he ever has). It was his rationale for why he does not desire females i.e. This is why I am gay.
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Mozza220559
Surmontil 50
Why's an uncircumcised penis weird, it's natural. Hacking off the foreskin when the child is born is twisted and barbaric.
CrystalGeezer
My secret's my enzyme.
In 'Murrica our wieners have heads. I dunno. Trust me, I want to meet one some day.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Morrissey is just being honest here, he writes about Morrissey the child and the teenager from their point of view, he isn't looking back and analyzing his past thoughts and actions, he is simply narrating them, and the passage being referred to is a sexually repressed teenage Morrissey's idea of what sex is, a dutiful and emotionless act of physical pleasure, which his peers thought of as the jackpot payoff, but that kind of fake intimacy didn't interest him. this was his view as a teen, but to think he is offering this view as a recent one is ridiculous, he mentions riding a bicycle as the ultimate adventure, which were obviously his feelings as a teen, not as a grown man.
realitybites
making lemonade
If I was in this men-only environment it would no longer be a men-only environment.
Are you talking about locker room talk? I get that. Women do it as well. But we, and men as well, tend to describe the genitals of the opposite sex in flattering terms. Imagine Moz making that statement--the whole passage that was posted--out loud in a prison or locker room full of hetero males. Do you think that would go over well? That there would be a sense of kinship and camaraderie felt? Hell no. They would all be thinking... gay!Similar threads
