Diana Crash Painting, Stella Vine, and Stuckism

D

Dave

Guest
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Paramedics surround car in Vine's picture
I'm looking for a better picture of the Diana crash painting.

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Another Stella Vine portrait of Diana

Stuckism

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An image showing Sir Nicholas Serota outside Tate Britain in December 2006, holding a postcard of Charles Thomson's painting of him Sir Nicholas Serota Makes an Acquisitions Decision. This took place during a Stuckist demonstration against the Turner Prize on 4 December, 2006.


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Just jump in here anywhere. Any thoughts on this?
 
"visual equivalent of tabloid journalism". yep, talented-less nonsense. Just choose a sensationist subject to cause controversy....all quite boring really.
 
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"visual equivalent of tabloid journalism". yep, talented-less nonsense. Just get choose a sensationist subject to cause controversy....all quite boring really.

Eventhough, you disagree with me entirely about my taste for conservative politicians...... I totally agree with you here.....this shit isn't worth a penny :rolleyes:

Nothing against you Davey :)
 
I understand that point of view, but I'm not sure I agree. The painting "Hi Paul" whatever it's called, is ugly and doesn't demonstrate much technical skill. But technical skill doesn't necessarily make something a work of art. I do think that this is a lot of hype and I don't see why this person's controversial fingerpainting is any more respected than anyone else's. And I do think that "the Art world" is pretty much a scam as far as creating new artists. This person talks about her paintings of Diana and says enough of the right sounding things to get some people to buy her story, that it's all a tribute to the sad life of Diana.

So she's got that part down anyway. I pretty much feel that these paintings are complete exploitation, but I'm not sure if that isn't Art. I don't know really. Undecided.

I looked around that Stuckism site and they have artists from all over the world in their movement. I might join. Check out Tarboosh.
 
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Eventhough, you disagree with me entirely about my taste for conservative politicians...... I totally agree with you here.....this shit isn't worth a penny :rolleyes:

Nothing against you Davey :)

DAnn, it's interesting that your criticism of Art has to do with it's monetary value. While I was looking for a Norman Rockwell painting for you I discovered that, according to the book, Norman Rockwell: The Underside Of Innocence that his art is actually very disturbing.
Read the article and you'll never look at his paintings the same way again.
Portrait of the artist as a dirty old man
 
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Hi Dave

Feel free to "join": http://www.stuckism.com/Enquiries.html#Artists

You might be interested in more on Stella Vine at http://www.stuckism.com/StellaVine/Index.html
http://www.stuckism.com/StellaVine/Salon.html
and currently on the home page http://www.stuckism.com

I have to say that I find her Princess Diana painting a very good one. I thought that when I saw it on the Transition Gallery site before Charles Saatchi bought it, and I think so still. It might be easy to paint like that, but it's not easy to paint convincingly like that. Also at the time she did it, she had no idea that anyone would take any interest in it or it would ever achieve the coverage it did subsequently, as she was an "unknown" artist.

I've got no great reason to praise her, as she uses her media platform to attack me with a highly imaginative depiction of events during our marriage (my favourite is that I had paid her to marry me) and has censored all mention of Stuckism from her CV, though she was overjoyed in 2001 to have her work exhibited for the first time. This is a revisionism that Modern Art Oxford seems happy to collude with.

Cheers
Charles
 
Hi Dave

Feel free to "join": http://www.stuckism.com/Enquiries.html#Artists

You might be interested in more on Stella Vine at http://www.stuckism.com/StellaVine/Index.html
http://www.stuckism.com/StellaVine/Salon.html
and currently on the home page http://www.stuckism.com

I have to say that I find her Princess Diana painting a very good one. I thought that when I saw it on the Transition Gallery site before Charles Saatchi bought it, and I think so still. It might be easy to paint like that, but it's not easy to paint convincingly like that. Also at the time she did it, she had no idea that anyone would take any interest in it or it would ever achieve the coverage it did subsequently, as she was an "unknown" artist.

I've got no great reason to praise her, as she uses her media platform to attack me with a highly imaginative depiction of events during our marriage (my favourite is that I had paid her to marry me) and has censored all mention of Stuckism from her CV, though she was overjoyed in 2001 to have her work exhibited for the first time. This is a revisionism that Modern Art Oxford seems happy to collude with.

Cheers
Charles

All these things are fair. I think that the painting was a very interesting look at the mass-hysteria of Diana worship which has gradually seeped through the nations consciousness for the last 10 odd years. It pushes the voyeuristic tendencies of people who wanted to read every last detail about Diana, who ironically then become the people criticising the art for confronting their own ugliness.

It's very easy (and lazy) to criticise things at face value without trying to understand the context that they are created in.

And may I say, if you are the real Charles Thomson, your work along with Michael Dickinson is a real inspiration.
 
As an ardent admirer of J. G. Ballard I must say I like Vine's paintings quite a bit.

I don't know much about the politics of contemporary art. I can certainly understand why there's so much anger when some artists are recognized and others aren't, especially with so many living on the margins, struggling financially.

Still, the art itself remains enjoyable. The lack of any firm definition of what art is in 2007, which one could use to filter out the nonsense, only sweetens my appreciation for it. There's more room for personal interpretation. One can savor the deliciousness of a phrase like "Many of your paintings of women have a complexity or at least you suggest this" (Peter McArdle). Strangely, though, it has also made me less interested in seeking out these works of art.

By the way, "Why Doesn't Mr. Richards Seduce Me" is a wonderful painting. Thanks for the link.
 
All these things are fair. I think that the painting was a very interesting look at the mass-hysteria of Diana worship which has gradually seeped through the nations consciousness for the last 10 odd years. It pushes the voyeuristic tendencies of people who wanted to read every last detail about Diana, who ironically then become the people criticising the art for confronting their own ugliness.

It's very easy (and lazy) to criticise things at face value without trying to understand the context that they are created in.

And may I say, if you are the real Charles Thomson, your work along with Michael Dickinson is a real inspiration.

nope. i just see the paintings as the work of someone who has no natural or trained artistic talent in the craft of using a brush & painton a canvas. The style is childish and the subjects she has choosen are just as sentionlist and explain nothing about the "voyeuristic tendencies of people"...the long and the short of it, money for old rope! Thats why it's easy to "paint" a picture of lady diana in a car accident or crying to her butler.
 
nope. i just see the paintings as the work of someone who has no natural or trained artistic talent in the craft of using a brush & painton a canvas. The style is childish and the subjects she has choosen are just as sentionlist and explain nothing about the "voyeuristic tendencies of people"...the long and the short of it, money for old rope! Thats why it's easy to "paint" a picture of lady diana in a car accident or crying to her butler.

I wasn't actually referring to you. My point was a more general one about the seeming contempt for art that is shouted by the tabloids which in turn is then picked up by the readers. This goes far beyond paintings of Diana.
 
Here's a link to Stella Vine's website, with a gallery of her paintings:

Stella Vine

I think it's a mistake to get caught up in the painter's identity or her intentions behind a given work of art. Stella's explanation of the Diana car crash painting may or may not be bullshit. It certainly sounds like bullshit. Not knowing Stella, I can't say. What I see, though, is an intentionally childish rendition of the car crash done with great wit: the Chris de Burgh lyrics (not Elton John's, it had to come from the 'idyllic' pop past of 1986, Diana's heyday), the vivid blue background, the twisted car-as-religious-artefact, the helplessness of the men who seem to be floating in the zero gravity of bewilderment and grief-- it's all extremely funny in the deadpan way it walks the line between poignancy and bad taste. I find myself marveling at the mind that would conceive of Diana's death in those terms, and I respect the artist who put it on canvas regardless of whether or not the painting is intended ironically. The perspective on modern celebrity worship it offers is timely and, in my opinion, dead on.
 
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This really isn't my thing, and represents a lot of what I dislike about modern art. It's crude and tasteless, and it has, in my opinion, no depth or soul. Give me a surrealist any day!
 
First of all I didn't mean to put down DAnn's opinion. I was trying to make a joke, and I'd just read that Norman Rockwell thing.

My first impulse when I saw this tiny picture of the car crash painting was that it was very bad taste and totally exploitative.

But then she's putting Chris de Burgh lyrics on there, so she obviously isn't going for good taste. Maybe, in some ways, the public aspects of Diana's life were as silly as these paintings seem to be at first glance. (I haven't actually seen the painting, just this tiny photo of it.) And as someone said "Taste is the enemy of Art."

I think that the painting must have some value if people are even willing to form an opinion, though, I'm not sure our opinions are of the painitng. More like our ideas of what we perceive to be the goal of the painting or the theory behind it. But if we're going to take it seriously enough to consider those things, at least it works on some level. I think it's just as easy to be for these types of things as it is to be against them and the idea, "at least it's got us talking" is pretty easy, too. So I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but Stella Vine's other paintings of people like "Paul and Linda" operate in sort of the same way. And you can't help thinking of Warhol when you see that she has a Marilyn Monroe and an Elizabeth Taylor.

I appreciate the responses from everyone, and the links, and it's good to hear from you, CharlesThomson. (have you been lurking? ;) ) I'm going to read more from the posted links. Thanks down_in_albion, always interested in your opinions, and Worm and TMYEM, and Hattie, of course. Thanks.
 
First of all I didn't mean to put down DAnn's opinion. I was trying to make a joke, and I'd just read that Norman Rockwell thing.

My first impulse when I saw this tiny picture of the car crash painting was that it was very bad taste and totally exploitative.

But then she's putting Chris de Burgh lyrics on there, so she obviously isn't going for good taste. Maybe, in some ways, the public aspects of Diana's life were as silly as these paintings seem to be at first glance. (I haven't actually seen the painting, just this tiny photo of it.) And as someone said "Taste is the enemy of Art."

I think that the painting must have some value if people are even willing to form an opinion, though, I'm not sure our opinions are of the painitng. More like our ideas of what we perceive to be the goal of the painting or the theory behind it. But if we're going to take it seriously enough to consider those things, at least it works on some level. I think it's just as easy to be for these types of things as it is to be against them and the idea, "at least it's got us talking" is pretty easy, too. So I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but Stella Vine's other paintings of people like "Paul and Linda" operate in sort of the same way. And you can't help thinking of Warhol when you see that she has a Marilyn Monroe and an Elizabeth Taylor.

I appreciate the responses from everyone, and the links, and it's good to hear from you, CharlesThomson. (have you been lurking? ;) ) I'm going to read more from the posted links. Thanks down_in_albion, always interested in your opinions, and Worm and TMYEM, and Hattie, of course. Thanks.

Thank you for the compliment it's very kind.

You are right my response was to the context rather than the actual work. This is mainly because i'm not that big a fan of Stella Vine per se, I would consider my interest to be more in the Stuckist movement generally, especially Dickinson and our contributor here.

You do raise an interesting point about controversy being as easy as normalcy. I would disagree though, Let's use this work as an example. As Worm pointed out, this seems to be a critique of celebrity culture, it shows a level of consciousness about the context within which it was created. The use of a pop culture icon to examine the reality of this very celebrity is on a much higher intellectual level than the culture it is based on.

Of course we cannot enter the mind of an artist and I am relying on my own interpretation which could be totally wrong. though as Worm mentioned, what the viewer takes from it, is in many ways much more valuable than the artists specific intentions.
 
Hi, yes, this is a genuine post. You can confirm by emailing [email protected] . There's some "hidden pages" of my new work here: http://www.stuckism.com/thomson/IndexSale1.html There's a Stuckist show in Wimbledon at the moment. See http://www.stuckism.com/AGalleryJuly07/IndexShow.html

It's good to get some positive response to my work, but I have to warn you that, according to Rachel Campbell-Johnson, art critic of The Times, you are conversing with the "slightly sinister leader" of "a clamorous cult of resentful artistic also-rans who, convinced that their talents have been by-passed by a Tate-led fad for conceptualism, protest publicly each year at the Turner Prize award dinner." http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/visual_arts/article2091659.ece

Despite this accolade, I have failed to convince friends I am even remotely sinister, though one of them suggested it might help if I started wearing all black.

Back on topic, the real problem with the Diana crash painting is that it's not a particularly good one amongst Stella's oeuvre, of which I am generally a fan. Nevertheless, I don't doubt her sincerity. She is far too self-obsessed, emotionally-driven, desperate, and, in her own subjectively warped way, honest, to undermine herself with intentional exploitation or irony. Don't forget she thinks everything she does is significant and important because she's done it and it comes from "deep within her", which I'm sure it does. This overwhelming need unfortunately leaves little room for the finer feelings of others. When you're drowning, all you care about is the lifebuoy you're holding onto, and hers is an inner reality which, like a child, she has populated with the fantasy figures of tabloid celebrities to compensate for an empty life.

As far as the negative reaction to the quality of the painting goes, I keep on thinking of how punk was first received, compared to the sophistication of prog rock. Mind you, most art containing any degree of innovation and directness has been met with similar rejection, including the Impressionists, Van Gogh and Picasso, to name just a few. I've spent many years looking at thousands of paintings, and the best of hers are very technically accomplished, in the way that they fulfil the aesthetic parameters they have defined, which is the basis of modern art, from Impressionism onwards, unless of course one rejects artists such as Matisse for also failing to conform to the rules of the Renaissance.

She is basically a one trick pony, namely a society portrait painter, who simultaneously flatters the subject, while dissecting its suffering. That earns her place in art. What concerns me is that artists of equal or greater merit, who choose less media-titillating subjects, are sidelined in the process. This is even more invidious, when she has used their creativity to inform her own work, and now chooses to ignore them, when she is in a position to help them in return. It was ever thus, maybe.
 
i don't know anything about art. it seems to be rubbish.
 
To Charles Thomson, I enjoyed that post very much. You're very frank and I appreciate that. So "we mean it man" is not a bad slogan then? To do something that feels like it's upsetting the established Art World must be exciting. I find your thoughts and what you're doing to be very interesting and it's nice to be able to communicate with you. I found some interesting reading here which I haven't had time to really study yet. Others might be interested.
Manifestos

I'm wondering how you felt when you first saw the picture of Sir Nicholas Serota holding the postcard of your painting of him?

I know that "how did you feel when" is right up there with "what's your favorite color"...

Here's an interview I found interesting that others might want to look at.Interview with Charles Thomson
by Brian Sherwin on 10/23/06


Original 20 Point Manifesto in pdf
 
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i don't know anything about art. it seems to be rubbish.

But everyone needs something to hang above the couch don't you think? Where I live in northern California "Duck Art" is very popular, and a friend of mine had an idea to make a Trojan Duck that would be full of artists.

Of course it never happened, the concept was enough... :D

This seems to be one of the things The Stuckists are fighting against.

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Much has been said about British bad boy artist DAMIEN HIRST’s groundbreaking $100 million diamond-encrusted platinum skull titled “For The Love of God” since it went on display at London’s White Cube Gallery in June, but to date, little has been revealed about the making of this bling masterpiece. Supertouch offers a step-by-step look at the creation of this masterwork which was created FOR the artist by some of the masters of European jewelry making at London’s Bentley & Skinner using over 8,601 of the world’s most perfect, flawless diamonds and 2,156 grams of fresh platinum (not to mention $28 million of the artist’s own money). And while the exhibit closed on July 7th without the piece being sold, don’t expect to see it on markdown anytime soon…

Check the link to see how it was created.
 
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once, in the night, i made love to a woman who looked just like this ^^ man, dave. he's slightly better looking, though.
 
once, in the night, i made love to a woman who looked just like this ^^ man, dave. he's slightly better looking, though.

did she have that skull, should of nicked it and sold it down the pawn shop for a few quid!
 
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