Der Spiegel audio "to be released in the next days" - Juliane Liebert tweet

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g23

Always crashing in the same car
See, you're just a prick anyway. If you eat meat YOU ARE WORSE than a rapist. Simple logic. You pay someone to murder.
They beg to be victimized, don't they? Just by being delicious! And some people just can't help themselves.

I might be using hyperbole since you might be using extreme lengths to justify victim blaming.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
They beg to be victimized, don't they? Just by being delicious! And some people just can't help themselves.

I might be using hyperbole since you might be using extreme lengths to justify victim blaming.

And please quote me where I used extreme lengths to justify victim blaming. No more babble. Quote, please. Otherwise your cow comment was just assholery because you know I'm vegan. Again, QUOTE.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
Yeah, you did.



Why don't you provide a list of provisos that dictate when you think a victim of rape or sexual assault is to blame, just so that none of us (heaven forbid) takes you out of context?

The context is not simply about actual assault and you know it so, no, f*** you I won't play your game. Besides your boy made it clear he hated rape and sexual assault so maybe if you had a drop of critical thinking ability you'd perceive there's more going on here.
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
And please quote me where I used extreme lengths to justify victim blaming. No more babble. Quote, please. Otherwise you cow comment was just assholery because you know I'm vegan. Again, QUOTE.
I admit, it was assholery. I could have used a different metaphor.
When I said extreme lengths, I meant the mental gymnastics involved to give M a pass on this, as well as your comment on thinking that sometimes the victim shares the blame, but you wouldn't say that in public.
But then you did? So pardon my confusion if this is not a form of public.

My core belief is that no one deserves to be victimized. Sexually, or otherwise. And when they are, the aggressor is at fault.
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
I reckon you foreigners (95% of this board) are defending a Nazi magazine and not All-American and 2021 Mayor of LA Steve P. Morrissey. All you lunatics in Yerope, Austrilililia, and South America must be Nazis. What did all those Americans die for your freedom for. You ungrateful, lazy, cowards, pieces of shit. Uncle Steve would never say he would kill Trump. You don't bite that hand that feeds you and Steve wouldn't be invited to the most important Trump supporter in Malibu John Lydon's Malibu beach parties anymore.

Your lot did not defeat the nazis cause that was the brits who really did the hard work before your lot turned up handing out chocolates and chewing gum.

I know american education is crap but deary me.....
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
I admit, it was assholery. I could have used a different metaphor.
When I said extreme lengths, I meant the mental gymnastics involved to give M a pass on this, as well as your comment on thinking that sometimes the victim shares the blame, but you wouldn't say that in public.
But then you did? So pardon my confusion if this is not a form of public.

My core belief is that no one deserves to be victimized. Sexually, or otherwise. And when they are, the aggressor is at fault.

Um, my name is not Vegan and I am not Freddie Mercury so, no, this really isn't "public" speaking. You know what I mean. I don't need to Mary Lou Retton my mind into giving Moz a pass. Since he clearly decried rape and sexual assault/harassment he was making an awkward point that just because someone flirts with you it might be clumsy or innocent in intent. I am able to parse thru the comments. I guess you aren't. When I same some "victims" are to blame it's when they aren't actual victims.
 

mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
The context is not simply about actual assault.

I'm sorry, was the boy that Kevin Spacey was with not assaulted? Were none of Weinstein's accusers?

and you know it so, no, f*** you I won't play your game. Besides your boy made it clear he hated rape and sexual assault so maybe if you had a drop of critical thinking ability you'd perceive there's more going on here.

You're the one who said "Sometimes the victim is to blame." Stick by what you said. Saying "oh you don't have critical thinking skills" doesn't erase the fact that you typed those words. You typed them. You're responsible for what you said.

Since he clearly decried rape and sexual assault/harassment he was making an awkward point that just because someone flirts with you it might be clumsy or innocent in intent. I am able to parse thru the comments. I guess you aren't. When I same some "victims" are to blame it's when they aren't actual victims.

Where are all these people who have "just been flirting" who have had their careers destroyed? Because all I've heard of in these weeks and weeks of stories coming out are heinous, lewd acts of Hollywood producers/actors and US politicians physically imposing themselves on children and colleagues. The widespread problem is not this "harmless, clumsy flirting" you're talking about. The widespread problem is men taking advantage of their positions of power in their industries to ruin the lives of others, then intimidate them into silence. That's why it's been a major story.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
See, that's called "victim blaming."



I agree.



Then why was his claim that he didn't say it, rather than his claim being (as you say) that his words were taken out of context. He blatantly said "If you don't hear the words come out of my mouth, I didn't say it." Well, he did. If he had said, "I said those words, but they were taken out of context to make headlines," then your point would have validity.

This is where he's in a bit of trouble here. He IMPLIED that he didn't say those things. Full stop. Again, his denials are vague. This is one of those times he just needs to cut the bs and say what he f***ing meant and means. Surely, he isn't so stupid to dare the audio to come out knowing/recalling what he said. One would hope.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
You're the one who said "Sometimes the victim is to blame." Stick by what you said. Saying "oh you don't have critical thinking skills" doesn't erase the fact that you typed those words. You typed them. You're responsible for what you said.
.

I have no problem with that statement. The qualifier is that there must be a VICTIM. I should have put quotation marks on the word "victim" because well it's obvious. :rolleyes:

And, no, NOT all the news stories are unequivocal abuse and/or harassment. Telling someone who has no relation or desire for you and what you can offer says "I can blow you better than so and so" and that was the end of it is an example of how this can become absurd
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
Um, my name is not Vegan and I am not Freddie Mercury so, no, this really isn't "public" speaking. You know what I mean. I don't need to Mary Lou Retton my mind into giving Moz a pass. Since he clearly decried rape and sexual assault/harassment he was making an awkward point that just because someone flirts with you it might be clumsy or innocent in intent. I am able to parse thru the comments. I guess you aren't. When I same some "victims" are to blame it's when they aren't actual victims.
Every time you rate me as troll for being logical, a fairy gets its wings.
Sorry you didn't like my cow metaphor. I don't much care for the rapist and concentration camp metaphors.

I have spent years reading between the lines with Morrissey. Even a fool could see a queasy pattern begin to emerge a little after Ringleaders was released. There were previous echoes of this pattern, but nebulous enough to be discounted. But hey, Morrissey's in his blunt phase now, isn't he? It's sad what he's become. He was one of the greats, and it's heartbreaking to have to mourn him before the ghost has left his body. But something left his body somewhere along the line, and what is left isn't pretty.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
Every time you rate me as troll for being logical, a fairy gets its wings.

I don't think your homophobia is appropriate at this juncture.

I've only been paying attention of Moz since sometime in 2015 so I don't have your experience with him. As far as the concentration camp analogies he has used they quite apt. No analogy is 100% perfect.
 

mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
Telling someone who has no relation or desire for you and what you can offer says "I can blow you better than so and so" and that was the end of it is an example of how this can become absurd

You offer a whole lot of "examples" without much proof that the examples actually real things that have happened in the world. Those, my friend, are called 'hypotheticals,' and they fail to dispute my point that the cases of Kevin Spacey and Harvey Weinstein - along with the large profile cases of Louis CK, Matt Lauer, Roy Moore, and Donald Trump - are not about saying "'I can blow you better than so or so and that was the end of it.'"
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
I don't think your homophobia is appropriate at this juncture.

I've only been paying attention of Moz since sometime in 2015 so I don't have your experience with him. As far as the concentration camp analogies he has used they quite apt. No analogy is 100% perfect.
I'm not a soda fountain, stop grasping at straws. :lbf:
I mis-paraphrased it's a wonderful life. Angel. "Every time a bell rings, an angel gets its wings."
I find his metaphors to be completely insensitive to the humans that suffered the horrors he so easily uses for quotability.

Homophobic... You have no idea what I do with my parts. And you never will.

EDIT: And congratulations on your upcoming three year anniversary as a Morrissey fan.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
You offer a whole lot of "examples" without much proof that the examples actually real things that have happened in the world. Those, my friend, are called 'hypotheticals,' and they fail to dispute my point that the cases of Kevin Spacey and Harvey Weinstein - along with the large profile cases of Louis CK, Matt Lauer, Roy Moore, and Donald Trump - are not about saying "'I can blow "

Um, That "I can blow you" allegation IS one of Spacey's allegations. That's the only example I provided ...and it isn't hypothetical.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
I'm not a soda fountain, stop grasping at straws. :lbf:
I mis-paraphrased it's a wonderful life. Angel. "Every time a bell rings, an angel gets its wings."
I find his metaphors to be completely insensitive to the humans that suffered the horrors he so easily uses for quotability.

Homophobic... You have no idea what I do with my parts. And you never will.

Og for the luv of...I was JOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got your reference :lbf:
 

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