Der Spiegel audio "to be released in the next days" - Juliane Liebert tweet

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g23

Always crashing in the same car
No, Im not! As I said you all take things for granted. You don't want to think about options. All you want to is have a scapegoat! I never said, I never said... you're just acting with me as you act with Morrissey or anybody that keeps mind open to other possibilities of how things could have developed.
I mean... one person Waits 30 years and all of sudden you have 20, 30 persons with the very same accusation. For me this rings the alert sign. Are they liars? No, I never said so! Are they saying the absolutely true? I dunno. So, that's why we should all keep the mind open for other possibilities and versions of the same history. Today is enough if I ever have been in the same place as Mr, or Mrs. X to say to the press in the next day or 30 years after that I was a victim of harassment. People should go for it, no doubt. They should call the police and denounce it, no doubt! I never ever harassed anyone and will never, but the point is there is another human being on the other side of the story. Let's hear all parts and let the police do their job. Meanwhile, do not condemn anybody, unless you are the victim and know perfectly what happened or if you are a witness involved on it.
And the point here is what Morrissey said and what he meant! And Im sure he didn't meant that the supports Spacey if he really did what he was accused of. But because of your answer, full of anger against somebody you have never seen and that you know nothing about, I know is pointless to try building any discussion. You are the nuttshel of humankind nowadays... you have the HERD BEHAVIOUR.
One of the most powerful tools in the abuser's handbook is to make their victims feel powerless, and more than that, alone. When one person has the bravery to stand up and say no, they won't keep the secret, they won't let the abuser hold power anymore, it causes others to feel empowered where they previously were frightened, powerless, and thinking they were alone in their struggle.

So kindly shut up, or rub some bear hormones on your ass and take a long walk in the woods. Make sure and call the police right after, though. Bears don't live 30 years.
 

Harsh Truth

Ever Felt Had?
yep theres a new album and tour that should be the conversation point right now but for various reasons this load of bollox is instead
The album has fallen on deaf ears outside of anyone beyond his core fanbase, and is a patchy effort to say the least. (Several quite good songs, though).

The (US) tour crashed and burned, just like many have before.

Amidst all this, Morrissey releases a "Statement" (now a "Sponsored" post on Facebook, by the way, so as to reach the widest possible audience) about this stuff. What else is there to talk about? This is what he wants us talking about. He had to know that Der Spielgel would respond.

Is this all some poorly thought-out ploy to sell a few more copies of LIHS? Because I really can't imagine all this moving a single person to buy the album.
 
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Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
Here’s what bothers me.
I’m not making any apologies for what may or may have no thought been said but people have to consider “how” and in what context it was said.
A lot of these statements are somewhat innocent such as the “One wonders where his parents were”. This could have been said early in the interview just as a passing thought but if strung together with bunch of other statements all of a sudden “What a jerk”. It takes on a whole new context and meaning from what was originally intended. Magazines are guilty of this allllll the time. They string a bunch of stuff together to create a more dramatic article (DIRT SELLS).
Also things such as “sarcasm” and “comments said in jest” are completely lost in print.
Besides all of this Morrissey is only HUMAN. It is possible that he said these things (it’s also possible he didn’t). This may may have been a moment of stupidity or lack in good judgement unfortunately played out in a public forum. I have expressed some stupid opinions over the years, blanket statements said without much thought. AND I have had my ass handed to me because of these statements. I was wrong. I feel extremely lucky that my friends didn’t write me off as a complete idiot just because I may have been “misinformed”. I learned from my mistakes. How many people in this forum have “never” been guilty of saying anything stupid? We are so quick to hate. Morrissey is only human, capable of making the same mistakes WE ALL make.
I wouldn’t want him any other way.
You wouldn't want him any other way? A hard-drinking bigot? You're welcome to him. I bet when the transcript's released, you'll still find a reason to say it's fake.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
Annnnnnnd the comments aren't nearly as bad as they were made out to be when you hear HIS TONE OF VOICE. It's obvious he's saying that you need to scrutinize accusations and put them in perspective. Sometimes it's not as bad or even wrong as it could be otherwise it becomes absurd. Everyone who asks someone out on a date is an abuser. He was obviously poorly informed of the Spacey situation. "As far as I understand it" or "As far as what I've heard" prior to saying what he said. So what? People do this. I have to side with Morrissey on this one. All he needed to say was "those comments need to be put in context". He has been unfairly maligned if you ask me.
 

ordinaryboy86

Well-Known Member
Annnnnnnd the comments aren't nearly as bad as they were made out to be when you hear HIS TONE OF VOICE. It's obvious he's saying that you need to scrutinize accusations and put them in perspective. Sometimes it's not as bad or even wrong as it could be otherwise it becomes absurd. Everyone who asks someone out on a date is an abuser. He was obviously poorly informed of the Spacey situation. "As far as I understand it" or "As far as what I've heard" prior to saying what he said. So what? People do this. I have to side with Morrissey on this one. All he needed to say was "those comments need to be put in context". He has been unfairly maligned if you ask me.
It was exactly as printed. End of.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
It was exactly as printed. End of.
Yes and no. The media made it sound like he was giving Spacey a blanket pass on everything. If you listen to his words and tone it's obvious he only knew of one boy and he was skeptical because of this and that. His response is more intelligent than the knee-jerk "OMG! How awful! Let's lynch Spacey now! Guilty!". All Moz was saying is "Let's be careful otherwise this going to get out of hand. Let's analyze". Remember he doesn't trust the media.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
FFS. It's so easy to just be pc and go along with the lynch mob mentality when these accusations crop up. Most public persons are cowards. Moz was just trying to put things in perspective that sometimes it's not what it appears to be. IT'S BLOODY OBVIOUS. The only thing he should be faulted for is being naive in assuming people will give the benefit of the doubt and being too slow in responding. All he needs to do now is say "Yes those words were used but let me clarify". I'm much more angry about his vegan hypocrisy.
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
FFS. It's so easy to just be pc and go along with the lynch mob mentality when these accusations crop up. Most public persons are cowards. Moz was just trying to put things in perspective that sometimes it's not what it appears to be. IT'S BLOODY OBVIOUS. The only thing he should be faulted for is being naive in assuming people will give the benefit of the doubt and being too slow in responding. All he needs to do now is say "Yes those words were used but let me clarify". I'm much more angry about his vegan hypocrisy.
So he isn't blaming the victims for their abuse, making light of the accused parties actions, talking xenophobic nonsense, or icky allusions to fascism? The truth has shined a light. He said everything he has denied saying.
I'm feeling vindicated and disappointed. It's not a great feeling to have.
 

Ugly Devil

Well-Known Member
All of the rumors
Keeping me grounded
I never said, I never said that they were
Completely unfounded
131016-morrissey-tease_mkyhve.jpg
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
So he isn't blaming the victims for their abuse, making light of the accused parties actions, talking xenophobic nonsense, or icky allusions to fascism? The truth has shined a light. He said everything he has denied saying.
I'm feeling vindicated and disappointed. It's not a great feeling to have.
No he is not "blaming the victims" in general. He's saying that SOME "victims" should have known better, are only disappointed or simply misunderstood the alleged "abuser". It's crystal fucking clear. This was made out to be "MORRISSEY DEFENDS SPACEY AND WEINSTEIN AND BLAMES VICTIMS" with zero qualifications or context. Don't be simplistic in your thinking. All he has to do is explain his comments in context for anyone with the slightest critical thinking ability
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
No he is not "blaming the victims" in general. He's saying that SOME "victims" should have known better, are only disappointed or simply misunderstood the alleged "abuser". It's crystal fucking clear. This was made out to be "MORRISSEY DEFENDS SPACEY AND WEINSTEIN AND BLAMES VICTIMS" with zero qualifications or context. Don't be simplistic in your thinking. All he has to do is explain his comments in context for anyone with the slightest critical thinking ability
20yerf.jpg

His comments were in the context of the interview. The tapes have been released.
Ol' Devious Stevious, with a side of truculence and unreliability for good measure
 

mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
No he is not "blaming the victims" in general. He's saying that SOME "victims" should have known better
See, that's called "victim blaming."

It's crystal fucking clear.
I agree.

This was made out to be "MORRISSEY DEFENDS SPACEY AND WEINSTEIN AND BLAMES VICTIMS" with zero qualifications or context. Don't be simplistic in your thinking. All he has to do is explain his comments in context for anyone with the slightest critical thinking ability
Then why was his claim that he didn't say it, rather than his claim being (as you say) that his words were taken out of context. He blatantly said "If you don't hear the words come out of my mouth, I didn't say it." Well, he did. If he had said, "I said those words, but they were taken out of context to make headlines," then your point would have validity.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
See, that's called "victim blaming."

Then why was his claim that he didn't say it, rather than his claim being (as you say) that his words were taken out of context. He blatantly said "If you don't hear the words come out of my mouth, I didn't say it." Well, he did. If he had said, "I said those words, but they were taken out of context to make headlines," then your point would have validity.
Time will tell I guess. Guess what? Sometimes it IS the victim who shares the blame (this doesn't include actual sexual assault but rather unwanted advances). Would I state the publicly? FUCK NO because 98% that isn't true. I believe ALL accusations should be taken seriously and investigated. Moz is simply out of touch and should know better when talking publicly. Eh, it's up to him if he wants to explain himself. I know what I heard but in the this climate people react more out of emotion than reasoning ability.
 
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g23

Always crashing in the same car
Time will tell I guess. Guess what? Sometimes it IS the victim who shares the blame. Would I state the publicly? FUCK NO because 98% that isn't true. I believe ALL accusations should be taken seriously and investigated. Moz is simply out of touch and should know better when talking publicly. Eh, it's up to him if he wants to explain himself. I know what I heard but in the this climate people react more out of emotion than reasoning ability.
A woman could fall unconscious, nude and splayed out for the taking, and she would not be to blame. The person who crosses the line into criminality at that moment, and a lapse of morals, and basic humanity is always to blame. Good. People. Don't. Prey. On. People. Regardless. Of. Opportunity.

Perhaps a cow is to blame for being delicious? No, that's ridiculous. You'd never say that.
 

Vegan

Well-Known Member
If a person is raped or sexually assaulted, that person holds zero percent of the responsibility for another human being unable to control their sexual urges. Zero.
Agreed. Didn't say otherwise. We aren't just talking about those extreme cases though, are we?
 

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