Dear God, please leave me alone... prayer in school?

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Alcoholic Afternoons

Guest
Take a good look at this bunch of rulebreakers, for example. Details here. Have their punishments fit their crimes?

When I read your post I expected to see a picture of the Kennedys.

Sorry for the eleven year old but I would have no problem telling him nor lose a night of sleep that mommy and daddy did something illegal and that is why they are not coming back.

That's pretty harsh, don't you think? It makes me a little uncomfortable that you're involved in educating kids, actually. I have to think if you were really faced with an actual 11 year old who'd just lost his parents you'd feel differently.
 

SNS22

Not Dead Yet
Playing Devil's advocate here....

The Child could have gone home with his parents...but obviously was left in the care of someone who is well-off enough to manage for his care...

He was not left on the streets or in a Orphange run by former KGB Hitmen...

I do agree it's a very tense issue, but I also agree that we can't send the message that if you come here illegally, you can't just have a child and that gives you a free ticket to permanent residence...again, the ROOT of the problem must be dealt with...at that is to make it easier for people to come here legally....It's almost as difficult for people to do that, as it was for Non-Whites to Vote in the South 50 years....
 

Worm

Taste the diffidence
When I read your post I expected to see a picture of the Kennedys.

Exactly. The double standard BC is talking about has been around a lot longer than the Bushes. There are any number of examples BC could have used to argue the point.

On a side note I have to say it's pretty depressing to imagine that the Kennedys are seen in the same light as the Bushes. Blindly supporting either family is deeply problematic but, even allowing the legion of skeletons in both families' closets, they're as different as chalk and cheese.
 
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Busy Clippers

New Member
When I read your post I expected to see a picture of the Kennedys.

Exactly. I chose the Bush family because we're distant cousins, so they make me angrier than the Kennedys. Also, the Bush's dont' seem to get killed off at the rate the Kennedys do so eventually there will be even more of them. Or something.

Playing Devil's advocate here....

The Child could have gone home with his parents...but obviously was left in the care of someone who is well-off enough to manage for his care...

He was not left on the streets or in a Orphange run by former KGB Hitmen...

I do agree it's a very tense issue, but I also agree that we can't send the message that if you come here illegally, you can't just have a child and that gives you a free ticket to permanent residence...again, the ROOT of the problem must be dealt with...at that is to make it easier for people to come here legally....It's almost as difficult for people to do that, as it was for Non-Whites to Vote in the South 50 years....

They tried to send the kid home with his parents, but apparently our Immigration Service couldn't get it together. The kid's illegal too, the family's only been here for two years so it doesn't seem to be a case of them coming here to give birth then trying to stay. It's a clusterf&@k and it's costing us tons of money. You're right, the root of the problem is our system.
 

SNS22

Not Dead Yet
Exactly. I chose the Bush family because we're distant cousins, so they make me angrier than the Kennedys. Also, the Bush's dont' seem to get killed off at the rate the Kennedys do so eventually there will be even more of them. Or something.



They tried to send the kid home with his parents, but apparently our Immigration Service couldn't get it together. The kid's illegal too, the family's only been here for two years so it doesn't seem to be a case of them coming here to give birth then trying to stay. It's a clusterf&@k and it's costing us tons of money. You're right, the root of the problem is our system.

The idiot politicians always think of a quick fix, instead of dealing with the root of the problem...Look what happenned in the 60's with The Public School System...Not only were the schools segregated by Race, they were also clearly divided in the quality of education and facilities provided...but instead of fixing the problem at its foundation by providing more money and resources to make both schools equal in nature, they chose a quick fix, which resulted in half of the black students being moved to a better school (While the other half remained in the run-down low-quality school) and half of the white kids to the former "black" school (While the other half stayed at the "better" school)...this resulted in a good education for some and a bad education for others....the schools remained for the most part inadequate and unequal..and 40 years later our inner city schools are miles behind the suburban schools with Olympic-Sized Swimming pools and computers in every classroom...It is a travesty and a shameful situation that very little is being done about....Because the politicians want an easy and fast fix to a problem, so they have more money for whatever crap they want to spend it on unnecessarily....
 

Worm

Taste the diffidence
They tried to send the kid home with his parents, but apparently our Immigration Service couldn't get it together. The kid's illegal too, the family's only been here for two years so it doesn't seem to be a case of them coming here to give birth then trying to stay. It's a clusterf&@k and it's costing us tons of money. You're right, the root of the problem is our system.

Right, but the larger point, which goes back to your earlier (great) post, is that "the system" failed. This was not a carefully applied, just enforcement of the law. The parents were stopped for an expired tag and subsequently thrown out of the country. If I read the article right, only an intervention on the part of concerned immigration advocates secured the boy's care. The story records a series of accidents, basically, which further drives home the imbalance in law enforcement. Upholding standards of crime and punishment is fine as long as the punishments are meted out properly and justly in all cases-- an eternal problem with all laws and one worth keeping in mind.
 
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Worm

Taste the diffidence
Morrissey actually mentions your guy by name in a lyric, but mine's only alluded to. :( :D

He doesn't name Dubya with good reason. Oliver Cromwell lost the lease on his "offshore detention facilities" a.k.a. dungeons several years back. Mr. Bush, on the other hand...
 

Buzzetta

WOOOOOOOO!!!!!
That's pretty harsh, don't you think? It makes me a little uncomfortable that you're involved in educating kids, actually. I have to think if you were really faced with an actual 11 year old who'd just lost his parents you'd feel differently.

No. I would not and have not in similar situations. A few years ago there was an eighth grader who had a father who went to prison. He thought it was unfair he started to lash out and act up. It was explained to him that his father was in jail because of his actions.

Do I feel sorry for the kid. Yup. Do I feel bad that the father was in jail. No way. The father committed a crime- was caught- sentenced and will remain in jail. The blame does not rest on society or the legal system. The blame lays on the parent.

If you come into the country illegally you are a criminal by violation of immigration laws. Whatever comes your way as a byproduct of that is your own doing.

What SHOULD be done is make the punishment for illegal or undocumented entry even tougher than they already are. In addition, what also should be done is to give more assistance to legal immigrants to make it more attractive to come here legally.

But once again... once you take part in a criminal activity you should not be surprised at the things that come with it.
 

Buzzetta

WOOOOOOOO!!!!!
The idiot politicians always think of a quick fix, instead of dealing with the root of the problem...Look what happenned in the 60's with The Public School System...Not only were the schools segregated by Race, they were also clearly divided in the quality of education and facilities provided...but instead of fixing the problem at its foundation by providing more money and resources to make both schools equal in nature, they chose a quick fix, which resulted in half of the black students being moved to a better school (While the other half remained in the run-down low-quality school) and half of the white kids to the former "black" school (While the other half stayed at the "better" school)...this resulted in a good education for some and a bad education for others....the schools remained for the most part inadequate and unequal..and 40 years later our inner city schools are miles behind the suburban schools with Olympic-Sized Swimming pools and computers in every classroom...It is a travesty and a shameful situation that very little is being done about....Because the politicians want an easy and fast fix to a problem, so they have more money for whatever crap they want to spend it on unnecessarily....

I have to admit... I taught for one year in surburbia... and hated every second of it. Besides the fact that I have air conditioning (A neccessity when dealing with 12-14 years olds as some still have not learned about deoderant) and many more resources, the suburbs are not as great as people are led to believe.

I never saw grand scale cheating, drug use, and other dishonorable actions from middle school students until I worked in the suburbs. Besides I was a public school kid in the suburbs until I went to a private high school that did have a swimming pool because my family did not like what was going on in the school districts. My father was also a teacher.

Brown was a quick fix after sixty years of realizing that Plessy v Ferguson was wrong on the grounds that it violated 14th amendment rights and the basic rights intrinsic upon the definitions used within the Constitution.
 

Worm

Taste the diffidence
Morrissey actually mentions your guy by name in a lyric, but mine's only alluded to. :( :D

What if they could jump in a time machine and trade places?

PRESIDENT CROMWELL:
"Truly I avow that this great victory given us over the heathen armies, bought dearly by the blood of our courageous young valiants in pitched combat, aided by God's streaming airborne vessels, from whose bellies issue our ennobl'd smart bombs for to teach our freedoms to the fig-colored idolators, pays glorious witness to our Lord Jesus Christ under whose holy shadow we stand as acorns 'neath an oak. Wrathful Christian soldiers, assembled all proudly aboard this mighty waveborne vessel, I say unto you, the hour of triumph is upon us. Let each man's head, though the flesh rightly be despis'd in the name o' the church, bear tonight my crown of words, of no niggard'ly metal beaten but forged in the bowels of your righteous President, a servant of Christ and a Texan too: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED".

LORD PROTECTOR BUSH:
"The, uh...look, the insurgents in Ireland-- the, the Catholics just won't-- they won't accept our way of life. Our freedoms. And, and...we are defeating the bad people...the insurgency is going well. It's going well. Just misunderestimated. Now, we've had to, uh, clear the slate for the commonwealth and...um. Look, sometimes you're going to have to kill some people. Innumberful folks. My commanders tell me things are g-g-going well. In Dublin and, uh, other...places...but I'm a decide-- a deicison guy, too, and I decide...I am decisive and I decide. It's a scary time-- good people are...there are madmens in Ireland and there's uncertainty and potential mental losses. I'm firm on that."
 
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Busy Clippers

New Member
What if they could jump in a time machine and trade places?

PRESIDENT CROMWELL:
"Truly I avow that this great victory given us over the heathen armies, bought dearly by the blood of our courageous young valiants in pitched combat, aided by God's streaming airborne vessels, from whose bellies issue our ennobl'd smart bombs for to teach our freedoms to the fig-colored idolators, pays glorious witness to our Lord Jesus Christ under whose holy shadow we stand as acorns 'neath an oak. Wrathful Christian soldiers, assembled all proudly aboard this mighty waveborne vessel, I say unto you, the hour of triumph is upon us. Let each man's head, though the flesh rightly be despis'd in the name o' the church, bear tonight my crown of words, of no niggard'ly metal beaten but forged in the bowels of your righteous President, a servant of Christ and a Texan too: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED".

LORD PROTECTOR BUSH:
"The, uh...look, the insurgents in Ireland-- the, the Catholics just won't-- they won't accept our way of life. Our freedoms. And, and...we are defeating the bad people...the insurgency is going well. It's going well. Just misunderestimated. Now, we've had to, uh, clear the slate for the commonwealth and...um. Look, sometimes you're going to have to kill some people. Innumberful folks. My commanders tell me things are g-g-going well. In Dublin and, uh, other...places...but I'm a decide-- a deicison guy, too, and I decide...I am decisive and I decide. It's a scary time-- good people are...there are madmens in Ireland and there's uncertainty and potential mental losses. I'm firm on that."

:D I'm blaming the fact that I was unable to photoshop Cromwell's face onto Bush's body (in a flight suit) on the fact that I'm still laughing too hard!
 

SNS22

Not Dead Yet
I have to admit... I taught for one year in surburbia... and hated every second of it. Besides the fact that I have air conditioning (A neccessity when dealing with 12-14 years olds as some still have not learned about deoderant) and many more resources, the suburbs are not as great as people are led to believe.

I never saw grand scale cheating, drug use, and other dishonorable actions from middle school students until I worked in the suburbs. Besides I was a public school kid in the suburbs until I went to a private high school that did have a swimming pool because my family did not like what was going on in the school districts. My father was also a teacher.

Brown was a quick fix after sixty years of realizing that Plessy v Ferguson was wrong on the grounds that it violated 14th amendment rights and the basic rights intrinsic upon the definitions used within the Constitution.

And still our schools are unequal....it's deplorable...and it shows that the school system is segregated...albeit along socio-economic lines more than racial...although there are probably more minority students in bad schools than good ones (Nationwide)....and even though there are more poor White students than any other racial group (this is of course due to the fact that the majority of students in Amercia are white)..there are probably more White Students going to good schools than any other racial group as well....The Legislatures are looking the other way and dealing with other stupid issues....I don't see a moment of silence as "harmful" to students, but surely there are more important things for the legislatures to be dealing with when it comes to the education system...it's sad that some places "reward" the poor minority student for "Making it" out of such deplorable conditions, INSTEAD Of doing more to ensure more Poor students (Minority and White) are provided with EQUAL educational opportunities....
 
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