David Moss (son of Joe Moss) / Twitter mentions Morrissey and archival Smiths data



Read the full set of tweets at time of posting:
40 years since #TheSmiths exploded, I think it's about time Joe Moss had his right of reply to Morrissey's damning claims. After my Dad died, I found some words written about him on Morrissey fan sites, a portion of these fans were dissing him, calling him names
That's hard to read, people dissing your dead parent, people who don't know him, people following the lead from Morrissey, who barely knew him, but decided to immortalise him anyway by writing negatively about him, so casting my Dad that way in the eyes of the Morrissey faithful
Pretty nasty stuff, and we've never replied to it, but the gist was, among other things, that Joe Moss wanted to replace Morrissey in the Smiths. This does seem ludicrous and paranoid, but what if it were true? why would he want to get rid of Morrissey?
what could Morrissey have done that warranted his replacement? Surely there were reasons, I'd love to know what Morrissey thinks about this? #TheSmiths #Morrissey
In a twist of fate, it turns out that there are two lines of Morrisseys in our family genealogy, the Grandchildren of Joe Moss are Morrisseys down 2 grandparent lines, so is this an ancient Tipperary quarrel? I'd love to know what he thinks about this? See, when Johnny, Andy...
and Mike were living together in my Dad's house in. Heaton Chapel, Morrissey was distant, oft found on the other side of town, Altrincham and Sale way, pursuing his interests, driving in his car, hanging out with a guy who I met later on, who was the same age as me at the time
so i never got to know him, my Dad didn't want me to get to know him at the time, he told me not to get too close to Morrissey, i was a bit shocked, i wanted to get close, but i heeded his words, which is sad as I was/am a massive fan. Now I'd just love to find out why SM wrote
what he did about my dad without any evidence, damning someone on a whim without anything to back it up. I have my evidence as to why, potentially, there may have been some issues around Morrissey's character, but it would be cruel to dump them without some balance and context?
but of course Morrissey did this to my Dad, damned him, and when he died, strangers insulted him, spitting on his grave for Morrissey, who daren't come close. What was it Morrissey? You're a pale man and paling still, the least my father deserves is a right of reply
It's true that my Dad was heartbroken when he left the Smiths fold, I don't blame Morrissey, or anyone else, for that, that was his own doing, but as I said, reading insults from people who didn't know him, insults bequeathed by Morrissey, who barely knew him, is really hard!
he certainly wasn't a saint, but he was an angel to the Smiths for a time, Morrissey knows and should be grateful, he wrote endless gratitude to Joe and Janet once upon a time, but then pissed on that sentiment by writing poisonous lines, creating a negative image of Joe Moss
Thankfully Johnny did the Joe Moss hagiography, for balance, for justice, so we get the 2 sides, the angelic Joe that Johnny knew or the demonic Joe that Morrissey barely knew. I think if you write about people who aren't yourself or your family, you're cursing yourself too
tbc
i mean, the curse can also be a charm, words are so powerful that way, what I mean is, if you choose to damn someone in prose, immortalise them in a text you claim to be definitive, you're also cursing them and so invoking a curse against yourself. Be charming!
I'm an archive and archivist, I have so much data about The Smiths, and also the physical evidence that my Dad, also an archive and an archivist, left to us. He left me with many insights and quotes, opinions and moods, but I'd never just drop something without consideration...
there has to be a connection to the universe. I could quote my father on The Smiths, and Morrissey, but I'd have to fit that into an exploded drawing of everything, give it life and meaning, and be sure to write with love uppermost, so I'd never do what Morrissey did to my Dad...
and this tweet thread is a part of that exploded drawing
I saw and heard what Joe Moss brought to The Smiths, have you seen early photos? The Smiths visual style evolved through my Dad who was all about style, who had clothes shops and a factory, who walked around Paris getting style ideas from the Parisian youth..
he was influenced by preppy fashion, 50s teen fashions, Beatnik style, the French New Wave, the situationists, Warhol and the Factory, but more than the knowhow was the ability to dress, and to dress others
his record collection was full of the roots of the sounds that inspired the Smiths, once they had access to that collection, the sound became historic
he bankrolled them too, we have all the receipts, even the bill for the daffodils so many artefacts, a lovely letter from Morrissey's mum to my Dad, thanking him for all he'd done for her son. He wasn't rich, things were sold off, policies cashed in, favours bartered...
and The Smiths happened.


Related item:
 
There were a hell of a lot of lies in Ms auto for sure. I thought this was M being paranoid as normal.
I still think that. I don't think David is saying Joe wanted M out .
I think he is saying why would M feel Joe didn't like him why would M feel like joe wanted him out .
Then he goes on to leave some heavy digs "interests"
M's friend being the same age as David , which would make him a teen, at the time I'm guessing ? How old is David ?

The bit about M driving his car is true , it was without a license as well . I don't think he was a peado though if that's what he's getting at.
I don't think M really sang anything PRO peado either .
Also the comment about "normalising male relationships " and naked people on the men , would hardly be reason to kick someone out of a band unless you are homophobic and Joe wasn't . Shit Gay was all the rage at the time Frankie , Boy George .
It was never a secret what M liked . I think David is suffering, missing his dad. He needs to watch himself
Why would M feel Joe didn't like him? David himself makes it clear Joe did NOT like him. And how do you know Joe was not homophobic? If anything, David's words seem to suggest he was...

Couldn't find anything online on how old he is.
 
Why would M feel Joe didn't like him? David himself makes it clear Joe did NOT like him. How do you know Joe was not homophobic? If anything, David's words seem to suggest he was...

Couldn't find anything online on how old he is.
I'm going by what joe told me mate - he used to be at loads of fecking Smiths gigs .He only ever said nice things about M. Just listen to any interview . Yes they all thought M was odd and a nutcase but thats fecking it
Also Joe was like a dad to Jaimie from Marion and Jamie loves M. My point being he would have told Jaimie to stay clear of M as well .
Not fecking get him on a tour with M . When he was managing the fecking band Marion .
Yes M is Humansexual (more gay ). It's not a secret .David is speaking out of his arse and is quite out of order . I think the person he is talking about being with M was over 16, at the time the law was 21 but the law was fecking homophobic BS . Listen it wasn't Joe's band . It was Johnny's and Ms. Johnny ,Angie and M were pretty close for the first couple of years . They all knew how special M was as a writer and performer. joe may have had reservations but he didnt want M gone . David is just being a homophobic c***yballs .
Mind you mate, what helped split the band up was people, like Joe, whispering in .Johnny's Ear and people like, James Maker, whispering in Ms ear.
The Twitter thing is obviously a kind of threat to M "I have receipts " . M should call his bluff and sue if he carries on. What I don't get is what Amy said about Primal Scream?
 
What I don't get is what Amy said about Primal Scream?
Thread here. Martin Duffy's son Louie submitted a statement (as part of Duffy's inquest) saying that his father was poorly treated by his PS bandmates and was left in debt, needing to sign on benefits etc, towards the end of his life. Trying to set the record straight. It seemed to be me that David is doing a very similar thing with this 'right of reply', he feels like he is setting things straight for his Dad. Why he's doing it now, I have no idea.
 
I'm going by what joe told me mate - he used to be at loads of fecking Smiths gigs .He only ever said nice things about M. Just listen to any interview . Yes they all thought M was odd and a nutcase but thats fecking it
Also Joe was like a dad to Jaimie from Marion and Jamie loves M. My point being he would have told Jaimie to stay clear of M as well .
Not fecking get him on a tour with M . When he was managing the fecking band Marion .
Yes M is Humansexual (more gay ). It's not a secret .David is speaking out of his arse and is quite out of order . I think the person he is talking about being with M was over 16, at the time the law was 21 but the law was fecking homophobic BS . Listen it wasn't Joe's band . It was Johnny's and Ms. Johnny ,Angie and M were pretty close for the first couple of years . They all knew how special M was as a writer and performer. joe may have had reservations but he didnt want M gone . David is just being a homophobic c***yballs .
Mind you mate, what helped split the band up was people, like Joe, whispering in .Johnny's Ear and people like, James Maker, whispering in Ms ear.
The Twitter thing is obviously a kind of threat to M "I have receipts " . M should call his bluff and sue if he carries on. What I don't get is what Amy said about Primal Scream?
Edit: sorry, just noticed that Amy replied while I was typing this!

There was a personal witness statement from the inquest into the death of Martin Duffy (ex- Felt, Primal Scream) by his son Louie, which ended up all over Twitter a few days ago. In a nutshell, the son of a dead musician offering up evidence that Bobby Gillespie in particular treated Martin Duffy like shit, when it came to money. Given that David Moss is on Twitter, it seems highly possible that he saw all of that and was "inspired" by it...
 
Agreed, while snarkily implying that Morrissey was busy cruising around with a mysterious boyfriend. It's all rather strange.
The bf stuff is stupid but I don't think he implied that Joe didn't like M, really - just that M was aloof and a bit apart from the others and maybe didn't try hard to make friendships, he wasn't regularly piling along to the pub. He was just a more introverted, private person than they expected, he only confided in Johnny, and maybe some people in the Smiths camp were disappointed by that? I don't put stock in that Twitter thread. He gets too much wrong and like others have said, it all sounds vaguely threatening.
 
Honestly, where’s the story here? Feels like a slightly desperate attempt to get noticed by Morrissey. Thread went nowhere. Should be ignored by everybody in the Morrissey camp - both private and public.
It's my life, a fragment of a story, one of many and the thread wasn't meant to go anywhere other than where it settled. Slightly desperate? I'd love him to take responsibility for his words about my father. Why ignore it?
 
This seems to have followed on from the Primal Scream exposé and it sounds like this person reads Solo.

Morrissey's portrayal of Joe Moss in Autobio was cruel and strange, it's true, and maybe David could reach out to him privately to discuss it - maybe he should have done that eight years ago (?) but this is not the way. Unearthing this old grudge in public, just after Andy Rourke's passing when there might be a scintilla of hope that the Smiths could put away their bitterness... no. This is stirring the pot to no good end.
What is Solo?
 
This. What Joe Moss’ son wrote there only lends credence to what Morrissey had said? Seems quite clear he didn’t really like Moz? Didn’t want his kid near him?? It sure looks like Moz had good reason to feel the way he did about Moss and that his story about Moss wanting to replace him might have a basis in reality?
I speculated that, if it were true that My dad wanted to replace him, then why, what reasons? It is ludicrous, I stated that too, and yes my Dad told me not to get 'too close' to him, not to stay away.
 
This. What Joe Moss’ son wrote there only lends credence to what Morrissey had said? Seems quite clear he didn’t really like Moz? Didn’t want his kid near him?? It sure looks like Moz had good reason to feel the way he did about Moss and that his story about Moss wanting to replace him might have a basis in reality?
I think what Morrissey's mum wrote in her letter was "God will thank you for what you're doing for my son". That's a quote I remember reading somewhere, probably Johnny Rogan's 'Morrissey & Marr'. Morrissey's depiction of Joe Moss in his autobiography is uncharitable. And I doubt that Joe wanted to actually replace Morrissey himself. But this post from David Moss actually endorses, rather than undermines, the idea that there was some prospect of Morrissey being kicked out of the band in the early days, and replaced by another singer. There clearly was a distance between Morrissey and 'the other three'/Moss, which both camps attest to. This wasn't perceived for a long-time, because Morrissey and Marr both presented themselves as a 'Lennon & McCartney' type close-knit duo, which I don't think they ever were - even in the very early days, Angie was probably a crucial mediator. And I don't think the other three quite realised what an asset Morrissey was to the group. Sure, he got them publicity, but a lot of it was negative. And they'd had some Top 20 singles, but perhaps Joe and the the other three felt that Morrissey was hindering them rather than helping them attain greater success. Add to that just how dark and dodgy a lot of his early lyrics were, with paedophilia, and this at a time when there had been a serious movement to legitimise paedophilia, which had made itself know, I think, in the pages of the NME, and it's easy to imagine how Joe may have felt that Morrissey was a ticking bomb.

I think what Morrissey's mum wrote in her letter was "God will thank you for what you're doing for my son". That's a quote I remember reading somewhere, probably Johnny Rogan's 'Morrissey & Marr'. Morrissey's depiction of Joe Moss in his autobiography is uncharitable. And I doubt that Joe wanted to actually replace Morrissey himself. But this post from David Moss actually endorses, rather than undermines, the idea that there was some prospect of Morrissey being kicked out of the band in the early days, and replaced by another singer. There clearly was a distance between Morrissey and 'the other three'/Moss, which both camps attest to. This wasn't perceived for a long-time, because Morrissey and Marr both presented themselves as a 'Lennon & McCartney' type close-knit duo, which I don't think they ever were - even in the very early days, Angie was probably a crucial mediator. And I don't think the other three quite realised what an asset Morrissey was to the group. Sure, he got them publicity, but a lot of it was negative. And they'd had some Top 20 singles, but perhaps Joe and the the other three felt that Morrissey was hindering them rather than helping them attain greater success. Add to that just how dark and dodgy a lot of his early lyrics were, with paedophilia, and this at a time when there had been a serious movement to legitimise paedophilia, which had made itself know, I think, in the pages of the NME, and it's easy to imagine how Joe may have felt that Morrissey was a ticking bomb.
I have the letter, one day we'll publish the artefacts, there's so much stuff to work through, my Dad kept everything. You're right about the controversial publicity aspect but this got them exposure beyond their music, Morrissey repeats the trick every time he has a record out - new controversy. You're someway right about the early lyrics, but be sure, Joe Moss backed Morrissey.
 
Thanks for all the interest,
There were a hell of a lot of lies in Ms auto for sure. I thought this was M being paranoid as normal.
I still think that. I don't think David is saying Joe wanted M out .
I think he is saying why would M feel Joe didn't like him why would M feel like joe wanted him out .
Then he goes on to leave some heavy digs "interests"
M's friend being the same age as David , which would make him a teen, at the time I'm guessing ? How old is David ?

The bit about M driving his car is true , it was without a license as well . I don't think he was a peado though if that's what he's getting at.
I don't think M really sang anything PRO peado either .
Also the comment about "normalising male relationships " and naked people on the men , would hardly be reason to kick someone out of a band unless you are homophobic and Joe wasn't . Shit Gay was all the rage at the time Frankie , Boy George .
It was never a secret what M liked . I think David is suffering, missing his dad. He needs to watch himself
I'm doing fine.
 
Thanks for your interest, it's fascinating to read your thoughts provoked by my somewhat messy tweet thread, I'm interested in truth.
 
It definitely is a fascinating read, as was Moz’ in Autobiography. He definitely felt lonely at times like when they were in New York for the first time and he already wanted to break up the band.

I don’t think he ever was too harshly negative about Joe Moss, just resented his (too) closeness to Johnny Marr. And managers and Moz never really worked. I wouldn’t take it too personal.
I don’t think there are any Morrissey-fans who don’t appreciate Joe Moss’ role in the Smiths story.
 
moss versus mozz,its all he said he said.

all managers get a bad rap,he put the idea into johnnys head to go knock on morrisseys door,he was with johnboy before the smiths so its no surprise that he was probably closer to him than M.
 
It's pretty obvious that much of Autobiography half-truths and almost lies wrapped in grudges and revisionism. (And, in my opinion, Moz seems to be at best, not a very nice person).

Rogan said that when he was interviewing a Moz/Smiths former band member for The Severed Alliance, the person described Moz as "Dangerous in the way only a truly damaged person is." (This was a one-on-one conversation with me at a book signing).

Moz has a track record of using people, then dropping them when their services were no longer required. And then retrospectively fitting the events into his usual I-Am-A-Genius-Surrounded-By-Bloodsucking-Clods egotistical narrative.

Love his music, but whew, not a nice person.
 
I wondered the same as a reader of Autobiography. Morissey argues Joe tried to expel him from Johnny and Johnny said bad things about him on TV interview after they reconciled. He wrote like it's true but hardly wrote anything that can base them. What made him think Joe is planning to expel him? Where and what bad thing exactly Johnny said about him, while it seems he always said nice of M in his printed jnterview? We don't know anything where those come from although his arguments sound not to be true.
 
Rogan said that when he was interviewing a Moz/Smiths former band member for The Severed Alliance, the person described Moz as "Dangerous in the way only a truly damaged person is." (This was a one-on-one conversation with me at a book signing).

Oh, please, he did not say that to you. This is quoted almost verbatim from Dave Simpson's Uncut article from 1998...

Screenshot_20230611_163628_Chrome.jpg
 

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