Dave Haslam speaks out against the cancellation of Roisin Murphy

[Miss Ann Thorpe]

Not sure about that. I think most people have always relied on second hand information, whether it was the town crier reading out a proclamation, or reading a pamphlet, which were all the rage a few hundred years ago. What is scary about the internet is the potential for total control and manipulation of what is on there. When you search something on Google - who determines what comes up in the search? If something does not come up in the search, does it cease to exist? Do 'history' and 'reality' become what is found online? And nothing more. The Orwellian potential of the internet is nightmarish. And we are already seeing this happen.

I still tend to search using Ask Jeeves, or Alta Vista. That's where the truth is.

 

[Anon of Manchester]

Here we go. “the Woke Left”. Have a word with yourselves people. This is not a Left v Right issue. So please spare us the DIly Mail speak.

 

[gashonthenail]

Here we go. “the Woke Left”. Have a word with yourselves people. This is not a Left v Right issue. So please spare us the DIly Mail speak.

Trans is absolutely not a left v right issue. But it's the woke left who seem to want to sack / definance / imprison people for questioning the idea that men can be women, or that medical intervention is automatically a good thing.

Norwegian actress Tonje Gjevjon faces up to 3 years in prison for saying men cannot be lesbians

A woman in Norway is facing up to three years in prison on criminal hate-speech charges after saying that a man cannot become a lesbian.

nypost.com

 

[Anon of Manchester]

Trans is absolutely not a left v right issue. But it's the woke left who seem to want to sack / definance / imprison people for questioning the idea that men can be women, or that medical intervention is automatically a good thing.

Norwegian actress Tonje Gjevjon faces up to 3 years in prison for saying men cannot be lesbians

A woman in Norway is facing up to three years in prison on criminal hate-speech charges after saying that a man cannot become a lesbian.

nypost.com

Here lies the problem. The spotlight is placed upon only the extreme, niche views. There is significant number of people from both left and right standpoints with their own views on the gender identity issue, who are perfectly able to agree to disagree in a way that is mutually respectful of the plurality of opinion.

I saw the seeds of this issue when the term LGB was changed to LBGT About 20 years ago. A vociferous group of Lesbians objected to the inclusion of Transgender to the fold. At the time, apart from the Rad Fem (who were perfectly happy to say that all men are bastards, including those with a dress and make up on!), there was no tangible argument expect, “just not yet please”.

The arguments haven’t necessarily evolved in the meantime, just the terms. Back then it was the “PC Brigade”, now we have “Woke”. In both cases, the use of the terms speak more about the person who uses them, than the intended group they intend to identify.

 

[Crisstti]

The thing about ethics is you have to stand by them not just say them. It seems she found saying them was easy but sticking to them was a stretch too far. I've been listening to her music since the early 2000s with Moloko and have seen her live a few times. I'm disappointed but it's sadly par for the course these days. One minute a celebrity is standing up and the next minute they're on their knees.

Precisely why this crap keeps happening.

 

[Crisstti]

Here lies the problem. The spotlight is placed upon only the extreme, niche views. There is significant number of people from both left and right standpoints with their own views on the gender identity issue, who are perfectly able to agree to disagree in a way that is mutually respectful of the plurality of opinion.

I saw the seeds of this issue when the term LGB was changed to LBGT About 20 years ago. A vociferous group of Lesbians objected to the inclusion of Transgender to the fold. At the time, apart from the Rad Fem (who were perfectly happy to say that all men are bastards, including those with a dress and make up on!), there was no tangible argument expect, “just not yet please”.

The arguments haven’t necessarily evolved in the meantime, just the terms. Back then it was the “PC Brigade”, now we have “Woke”. In both cases, the use of the terms speak more about the person who uses them, than the intended group they intend to identify.

It isn’t just a matter of where the spotlight is placed. That’s an actual law against free speeech - under the guise of “hate speech” - that could actually put a woman in prison. For stating a fact: men cannot become women.

 

[marred]

Precisely why this crap keeps happening.

If actual women cannot stand up for women then take a seat and STFU

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

It is reassuring to me at least that the majority of comments on here are critical of the clearly harmful, misogynistic, homophobic and racist trans ideology.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

She's an Irish singer/songwriter and bloody gorgeous. She used to be in an electro pop band called Moloko and has also had a relatively successful solo career.

she is gorgeous! thanks for introducing me to her, bun bun! i liked the videos!

 

[nicky wire's legs]

This video is interesting.
I think it supports what Cooper says. (Skip to 4:15 if it's too long)
Calling "trans" a fad or trendy seems to me to be an undeniable fact, not an opinion.

i love bill maher!

when i was little i wanted to be helen keller or heidi's wheelchair bound friend Klara! thank god no one took me seriously!!

 

[gashonthenail]

Here lies the problem. The spotlight is placed upon only the extreme, niche views. There is significant number of people from both left and right standpoints with their own views on the gender identity issue, who are perfectly able to agree to disagree in a way that is mutually respectful of the plurality of opinion.

I saw the seeds of this issue when the term LGB was changed to LBGT About 20 years ago. A vociferous group of Lesbians objected to the inclusion of Transgender to the fold. At the time, apart from the Rad Fem (who were perfectly happy to say that all men are bastards, including those with a dress and make up on!), there was no tangible argument expect, “just not yet please”.

The arguments haven’t necessarily evolved in the meantime, just the terms. Back then it was the “PC Brigade”, now we have “Woke”. In both cases, the use of the terms speak more about the person who uses them, than the intended group they intend to identify.

Is believing that sex is real and can't be changed an extreme, niche view?
And you are right that such arguments haven't changed, they have always been around. What has changed though is that expressing a view on one side of the argument is increasingly having really terrible 'consequences' for people, e.g. being sacked, being threatened with prison. That is new.
Of course 'woke' is a silly term. I agree with Lionel Shriver - it's far too silly and frivolous a word to describe what is really happening - the development of a tyrannical system of belief that everyone has to follow, or else. 'Woke' is far too trivial a word for that.

 

[marred]

she is gorgeous! thanks for introducing me to her, bun bun! i liked the videos!

Yeah aside from her being a little wobbly on the current thing she is a very talented lass and she's amazing live in concert. The four albums she did with her band Moloko are great with Statues probably being the most consistent.

Although one of my faves is definitely Pure Pleasure Seeker from the Things To Make And Do album.



This is her latest track Fader from a couple of months ago that I really like too. The song is kind of a mess but I mean that in a good way

 

[Anon of Manchester]

Is believing that sex is real and can't be changed an extreme, niche view?
And you are right that such arguments haven't changed, they have always been around. What has changed though is that expressing a view on one side of the argument is increasingly having really terrible 'consequences' for people, e.g. being sacked, being threatened with prison. That is new.
Of course 'woke' is a silly term. I agree with Lionel Shriver - it's far too silly and frivolous a word to describe what is really happening - the development of a tyrannical system of belief that everyone has to follow, or else. 'Woke' is far too trivial a word for that.

I once worked in a gender reassignment clinic. Many years ago. That now seems so straightforward compared to what people demand today. Gender can certainly be altered, by knife, hormone, medication, etc. I don’t ever recall the NHS (in this case) ever offering to “change sex”. That’s legally and medically not on the table. Just to clarify, my role was an organising one, not clinical.

In terms of people having their livelihood and liberty taken for expressing a view, I neither support this, nor do I believe that this is a widespread issue. There are always these extreme cases that definitely do not represent the true picture.

We agree that the basis of the argument is an old one. Yet, we are in a Brave New World situation, with science offering previously unimaginable choices. Medical Ethics is supposed to regulate, but I’m not sure how effectively, to be honest. How we deliver and manage people as they seek to make these choices has never been so important. It’s just so much more complicated an issue now, with knock on effects being felt in general society. Do the many change, for the good of a few? Should we have to stop and think about gender loaded language that we’ve been getting along ok with so far? And what about protected spaces for Women?

We need a grown up, respectful conversation, that addresses these questions and the many other far more central issues. I can’t see one on the horizon though.

 

[Anonymous]

Very true. Our brains have changed little since we were hunter gatherers. We like shiny, colourful things. The potential for making us all consumer addicts is huge.

Dopamine, Smartphones & You: A battle for your time - Science in the News

by Trevor Haynes figures by Rebecca Clements “I feel tremendous guilt,” admitted Chamath Palihapitiya, former Vice President of User Growth at Facebook, to an audience of Stanford students. He was responding to a question about his involvement in exploiting consumer behavior. “The short-term...

sitn.hms.harvard.edu

Yes but its not just about dopamine and addiction, its also about exposure to many different types of views and politics and information, and that will over time shape how society breaksdowns and functions, and how people view the world.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Yeah aside from her being a little wobbly on the current thing she is a very talented lass and she's amazing live in concert. The four albums she did with her band Moloko are great with Statues probably being the most consistent.

Although one of my faves is definitely Pure Pleasure Seeker from the Things To Make And Do album.



This is her latest track Fader from a couple of months ago that I really like too. The song is kind of a mess but I mean that in a good way

the second one is fun, i like it!

 

[gashonthenail]

I once worked in a gender reassignment clinic. Many years ago. That now seems so straightforward compared to what people demand today. Gender can certainly be altered, by knife, hormone, medication, etc. I don’t ever recall the NHS (in this case) ever offering to “change sex”. That’s legally and medically not on the table. Just to clarify, my role was an organising one, not clinical.

In terms of people having their livelihood and liberty taken for expressing a view, I neither support this, nor do I believe that this is a widespread issue. There are always these extreme cases that definitely do not represent the true picture.

We agree that the basis of the argument is an old one. Yet, we are in a Brave New World situation, with science offering previously unimaginable choices. Medical Ethics is supposed to regulate, but I’m not sure how effectively, to be honest. How we deliver and manage people as they seek to make these choices has never been so important. It’s just so much more complicated an issue now, with knock on effects being felt in general society. Do the many change, for the good of a few? Should we have to stop and think about gender loaded language that we’ve been getting along ok with so far? And what about protected spaces for Women?

We need a grown up, respectful conversation, that addresses these questions and the many other far more central issues. I can’t see one on the horizon though.

Yes, the latest term now is 'gender affirming' surgery. What hokum.
You can take drugs to prevent puberty pre-adolescence, you can take drugs to block the release of sex hormones post-adolescence, you can have radical plastic surgery to remove the external sex characteristics of one sex and 'build' the external sex characteristics of the opposite sex. The side effects of the drugs can be terrible and life shortening and, when used on children, still not fully understood. Candy Darling almost certainly died from the carcinogenic effects of taking female sex hormones, at the age of 29. And for those who go on to have surgery, although 'improved' over the years, like any plastic surgery, it can cause crippling and life-long physical health problems, with more drugs often needed to cope with those problems.
I just don't see anyone in this debate not being grown up or respectful - other than the trans rights ideologues. When has JK Rowling shouted or been disrespectful? Or Lionel Shriver? She is calm and logical in what she says, always.

 

[marred]

Helen Joyce is also a great voice in this insane world of gender ideology. Roisin needed to school up before she apologised.

 

[gashonthenail]

The reviews of her new album all say similar things - that it has been 'marred' or 'stained' by what she has said. How absurd. She suggested that maybe kids shouldn't be given harmful drugs in the name of a dogma and an ideology. Even more absurd is that this is framed as an attack on her 'queer' fans. What utter bollocks. Most gay men and lesbians I know are appalled by this women-hating nonsense. She should not have backtracked from what she said. Moz could teach her a thing or two about how to deal with the online mob.

Róisín Murphy: Hit Parade review – a masterful album with an ugly stain

To DJ Koze’s warped soul and dub techno, Murphy examines unrequited love and the ecstasy of being seen for who you are – a theme that jars with her recent comments about trans kids

www.theguardian.com

Róisín Murphy – ‘Hit Parade’ review: an accomplished record marred by controversy

Róisín Murphy teams-up with kaleidoscopic DJ Koze, though recent controversial comments will dampen its release

www.nme.com

 

[gashonthenail]

Helen Joyce is also a great voice in this insane world of gender ideology. Roisin needed to school up before she apologised.

Helen Joyce is an excellent voice on this issue, and again, always reasonable and measured. It's those who seek to silence debate on this issue that are the problem, i.e. aggressive men in balaclavas.

Cambridge college apologises for 'distressing' gender critical lecture

Dr Joyce, who maintains biological sex is binary and immutable, was greeted by dozens of masked trans activists protesting last night's debate on gender ideology at St Mary's Church in Cambridge.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Crisstti]

The reviews of her new album all say similar things - that it has been 'marred' or 'stained' by what she has said. How absurd. She suggested that maybe kids shouldn't be given harmful drugs in the name of a dogma and an ideology. Even more absurd is that this is framed as an attack on her 'queer' fans. What utter bollocks. Most gay men and lesbians I know are appalled by this women-hating nonsense. She should not have backtracked from what she said. Moz could teach her a thing or two about how to deal with the online mob.

Róisín Murphy: Hit Parade review – a masterful album with an ugly stain

To DJ Koze’s warped soul and dub techno, Murphy examines unrequited love and the ecstasy of being seen for who you are – a theme that jars with her recent comments about trans kids

www.theguardian.com

Róisín Murphy – ‘Hit Parade’ review: an accomplished record marred by controversy

Róisín Murphy teams-up with kaleidoscopic DJ Koze, though recent controversial comments will dampen its release

www.nme.com

The NME and The Guardian. Need we say more.