Dave Fanning Interviews Morrissey- The Transcript

3

3/4 Of A Person

Guest
Dave Fanning interviews Morrissey on 2FM
Part 1
Nov 4 2002

*Hand In Glove played followed by Everyday Is Like Sunday

Dave Fanning: Okay Morrissey, tenth solo album, just tell us first of all, is it together, is it gonna be out soon, is it definitely gonna get a release, all that kind of thing?

Morrissey: Well, em, many questions…is it together..it’s not recorded, I don’t have a deal, so, God knows. I’ve waited a long time for the right deal and eh…

DF: Right, so it is just around the corner.

M: Well, it’s a big corner, but yes.

DF: And will it have songs that we’ve seen on stage like The First of the Gang To Die etc..

M: Yes, yes, it will do. It will do if I can record it quite soon, but…

DF: Because then it might change.

M: Exactly.

DF: You’re currently on tour, you’re playing Europe, you’ve played America, you’re going to Greece, you’re going to Australia…do you like it all, or is it something you feel you have to do?

M: Well, no, I’ve never felt that I have to do anything, but it’s very enjoyable and also, when you’re about to go somewhere and they sell out very quickly, it puts a spring in your step and you really want to be there. I mean, if ahead of you was a series of empty halls then you’d lack enthusiasm, perhaps. But people are always so welcoming, so off I go.

DF: Right. And what about the writing of the songs, say, for an album like this, is it the same you’ve done for previous albums, the same kind of way?

M: Yes, same process, nothing very technical, nothing very complicated, just the strength of the written word and saying something very concisely and effectively and…

DF: Profound or whatever…

M: Well, profound, if I’m lucky, if I’m lucky..

DF: Okay, but it is pen and paper as opposed to computer these days, isn’t it?

M: It’s completely pen and paper, yes, yes…

DF: Right. Just a few people that you’ve worked with on these solo albums over the last bunch of years, I mean, you’ve worked with Mick Ronson, you’ve worked with Steve Lilywhite, musician, producer, etc…

M: Yes, yes…

DF: Do you get much from them or is it just nice to get on with them, is that enough?

M: Em, no..producers really do something, they actually do work and when you have a good producer who pulls things together and pulls people together it’s fascinating- fascinating to watch because you can record a song and think it’s incredible and you can think- well, we don’t really need a producer, the song is so wonderful and then somebody walks in and they do some very basic manoeuvres and you just see the song move a hundred octaves! And eh..so it’s fascinating when you see a producer at work.

DF: Is it somewhat like a second opinion, though, in some ways? Because you can’t just always trust yourself?

M: No, it’s more than just a second opinion because everybody can give a second opinion, but they don’t know their way around the desk and they can’t forsee how an instrument will sound if you do a certain thing to it, so, no, it’s more than just somebody sitting there saying “Well, I think..” ‘cos they do actually jump in and start to eh..manipulate, slightly. And they also push and that’s quite nice.

DF: Okay, well what’s ‘quite nice’ with you, is you sound as though you’re in a position where you’re mellow to the point where you enjoy what you’re doing…maybe aggressive on stage or just like…y’know, everything is working out fine and you never want to play this fame game thing, which is being played more today than ever before..

M: Yes..

DF: Do you ever have any sympathy with those who play the fame game?

M: Not really, I think people who play the fame game, which is practically everybody, most of them actually do so because they end up going further than they really ever should have. I mean, most people in pop music have no talent, it’s all simply look and nothing else- and maybe they never thought they’d ever be visible in any way, so to play the game they go further and if they’re lucky they’ll get some money. So, maybe the fame game is useful for people who are bereft of any imagination.

DF: Well, you sing with the voice that you talk with, I mean a lot of people don’t, they put on this West Coast thingamibob..

M: (sighs) Yes…

DF: Now, this whole pop fame game thing, just to stay on that, does it, with you, induce a form of agoraphobia, like, the more you see, the more you just want to go back in and shut the door?

M: Well, I think I’ve seen so much now and I don’t think anything would surprise me anymore..I don’t think so, not really. But I’m terribly cynical about the music industry and it’s easy to be so, but…I still love music. And I still love to sing. And I still love to present it and to try to be visible in a respectable way, so..

DF: So when you talk about loving music and loving to sing, in your teens you were absolutely obsessed with music and pop music..

M: Yes, yes…

DF: And with the stuff that was in the NME and all that kind of stuff, writing to the NME etc…but when you talk about the vocal melodies and stuff of music…are the vocal melodies the one thing that are still the most important thing to you?

M: To me, yes. And if there are groups or artists and they have bad singers or they have no vocal melodies, I can’t listen to them. And it doesn’t matter how they’re rated or how much people applaud them, if there’s a bad singer- and in most cases there is a bad singer, ‘cos very few people have interesting voices to me..so I end up just being a terrible critic about that.

DF: So, lyrical content would be second in line?

M: Well, it hardly ever comes into it because nobody has any decent lyrical content, really..I mean, there aren’t really any decent pop lyricists around, are there?

DF: There’s a few!

M: How many can you name?

DF: Well I can start with Nick Cave, I think he’s great, although he’s not a pop lyricist as such..are you talking about like, pure pop, as in, chart pop? Because there’s certainly nothing there!

M: Well, when was the last time you heard a few lines that really made you leap and caught you by surprise?

DF: But a pop lyricist…

M: See, you’re not answering!

DF: Ok, ok, ok, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you! (Morrissey laughs) We’ll stay with Nick Cave then, there’s a song called ‘Are You The One That I’ve Been Waiting For?’- some of the lines in that are just fantastic..

M: Right…

DF: There’s the “Stars have their moment when they die” line, well it ends with that, there’s about five beforehand and the whole nine lines, or the seven lines, are great! Yeah but okay, that was five years ago! (Laughs)

M: (Laughing) Exactly, exactly… And…maybe it didn’t catch you by surprise ‘cos you were listening anyway..and you liked him so much that you were ready to like it.

DF: I expected it. No question about it, yeah…

*Bigmouth Strikes Again is played, followed by William, It Was Really Nothing

DF: Do you think it’s better that artists remain aloof and give off the vibe of being superior? I’ve often thought that you’ve looked up to people like that, right down through your career.

M: Well, I don’t know how many people can really do that, because if you play the fame game then you just have to dive in and you have to be orchestrated somehow and if you don’t- if you’re uncontrollable- then people say you’re a problem. And if people can’t get one over on you, they say you’re a problem and you’re awkward. But it just means that they don’t really get away with anything where you’re concerned, so then they say you’re really difficult. But as far as I can see, most people do tow the line. I can’t really see anybody in pop music who’s rebellious. And certainly, when groups and artists have a certain footing and a large audience, they’re somewhat trapped. (Pause) God knows why…

DF: But when you were that teen person I was talking about, compared to now and nobody ever believes that life goes as fast as it does - it goes so slow, I suppose, in your teen years, compared to your 20’s, 30’s or 40’s - are you ok with that?

M: I feel fine, I mean..the older I get, the happier I feel and the prospect of a shock of grey hair, I think, is really quite nice..

DF: And musically…do you feel as a vocalist you’re growing, or is that irrelevant?

M: I feel, yeah- growing, I feel better- older, better and no, I don’t feel any kind of nervousness about the ‘dreaded’ looming years.

DF: Right. Do you think that the music press have treated you a lot differently than when you were with The Smiths between ’85 and ’90 in all of the 1990’s with those nine solo albums?

M: Well, yeah..they did, I mean they were terribly impatient in the ‘90’s and really unfriendly, as you might possibly have noticed, I don’t know. But yes, they tend to be very critical anyway, but I don’t mind, I’m used to it, it’s been 20 years really and I’m just used to all that now.. And people write things and they don’t really mean it and you meet them and they’re terribly nice and you say, well..it’s just all a strange system.

DF: And what about the stuff that you would have in your live current set? I mean, there was a time in the ‘90’s - I might be wrong about this, I’m not 100% sure- that you wouldn’t have included Smiths songs?

M: Well, I didn’t want to initially, because I think I did feel that if I had, I would have been criticised if The Smiths had ended and then I would’ve launched into a solo Smiths tour, so I purposely avoided all those songs and now I feel that they’re more mine than anybody else’s- they don’t belong to other people, so…I’m gonna sing them.

DF: There was a time when it was said that if you met a complete stranger and they wanted to see the best of what Morrissey is, or what Morrissey was, you might look to Vauxhall & I, or Your Arsenal or whatever…could you now open the door to say “Well, look at the Smiths songs as well” and was there a time you had that door shut?

M: No (Laughing) A nicely crafted question, but no. The door was always ajar, really. But when I became solo, I wanted to establish something, and for better or worse, I did. I wanted to take a solo leap and not just hide and pretend I was in the same situation. But you know, you can’t really win- I mean if you do this, people say “Well, why didn’t you do this?” and if you do this, they say “But yes, you should have done this!” so you think “To hell with it, really. Take me or leave me”.

*There Is A Light That Never Goes Out is played, followed by Suedehead

DF: A lot of your songs would be like…a conversation with yourself that you may never have had in the past.

M: Yes.

DF: I mean, obviously everybody talks about Morrissey in terms of ‘the way you were as a kid’ or ‘the way you grew up’ or the fact that you felt alone and you wanted to go..For instance, you used to go to Bowie and Roxy Music concerts, and you didn’t go in a crowd like most people do, you went by yourself..

M: Yes, that’s right, yes…

DF: Did you genuinely go to these things at the age of 12 and 13? That’s pretty young to be going to things like that by yourself!

M: Yes, unbelievably, em…when I was 12 I went to see the New York Dolls in Manchester and Roxy Music and…the New York Dolls didn’t turn up because the drummer died the day before, but I was there from 8am, pressed against the door and then pressed against the stage and then they made the announcement that the drummer had died, and all the audience began to weep and…so yeah, to be going to see people like that, and Lou Reed at the age of 12..and he wouldn’t come on ‘til midnight, and he was singing about heroin and transexuality and…I thought it was fascinating. And much better than the world that everybody else knew in Manchester. I thought this is really interesting, these people are interesting. It’s eh..so…I was ready. I was ready for all that. I was ready for anything that was sort of..pushing people to question gender politics, or anything like that. Only because it was interesting.

DF: And therefore, you were ready to become…did you want to become a star, by the way?

M: Eh..I never believed I could be, because I was always terribly shy and I always felt that when you would see people on stage, and on television and so forth, that they must have had some incredible…er…what’s the word…umm…they must have been very outgoing and very brave and so forth, and I wasn’t that person. So when I found that I was beginning to do it I realised that it was easier than I thought.

DF: And also, anything was an antidote to school, wasn’t it? Because school was a bit of a hellhole, wasn’t it?

M: Yeah, it was shocking, really shocking. I mean, I can’t really…I didn’t survive school, to be honest. It still gives me nightmares, I can’t believe it was so bad, and so forth and….very shocking. But, you know, a common story, I think.

DF: I was just gonna say, does it make you feel anyway better at all to know that there’s millions out there that feel the exact same way?

M: No, no, because there’s millions who view education and…’it was a breeze’ and ‘it was useful’ and they got something from it and..those people I really envy, when they look back on their school days and college days and especially in America, when it was so fruitful and giving, education was so fruitful…I can’t imagine that. When I think of education and school I just think of violence and nothing else. And that’s the teachers, not the pupils.

DF: Or the system, even.

M: Yeah, the system, really.

DF: And what about the sadism of Catholicism, or is sadism a bit of a big word?

M: Eh…it’s well…it’s not that big, no…(chuckles) it’s quite sadistic, yes. But we can all survive that, really. We can all rationalise that.

DF: But like, when you were a kid and you go to bed, I mean the Moors Murders happened and you had a song about that - did that affect you in a strange way? Did it give you nightmares, did it keep you awake?

M: Well, em, yes, because at that time, the world was a very different place, in the ‘60’s, and it was incredibly shocking crimes and they still are shocking crimes. I mean, if you read the details of those crimes, they’re still very, very shocking now. So being in Manchester and being close by, being small, and all the victims, well most of the victims were quite small, it was a very profound thing. I mean, it still is. You see a picture of Myra Hindley or Ian Brady in the newspapers today and it’s almost like a Victorian…it’s almost like a witch trial or something. It’s got some strange mythology about it. They’re larger than life figures, the crime is still unbelievable.

DF: It looks like we’re talking, having a conversation with the word compassion here…you once said “Compassion? I only have compassion for myself”

M: (Chuckles)

DF: (Laughs) I mean, should I not throw back old quotes, is that a mean one?!

M: Well, some of them are useful, but yeah, I’d still say that today, I think.

DF: I think one of the best ones is your description of Manchester- (laughing) “Docklands without the docks”. Was it that bad, yeah?

M: (Laughing) Well, I believe there is a new Manchester now, I think there’s lots of bright, sparkling shops everywhere and people are rejuvenated, but you know, somehow I can’t imagine several industrial revolutions changing the people of Manchester- they won’t change. So there can’t really be a new Manchester.

*The Headmaster Ritual is played

DF: When, around the age of 17 or whatever it was, in 1979, you went out to a gig and met Johnny Marr..was that a really pivotal..this was like “This moment..”

M: Well, no, it didn’t seem so at the time. I’d first met him at a Patti Smith concert and…then we didn’t meet each other for 4 years and eh….but no, it didn’t seem pivotal at the time. But when we began to form The Smiths, everything happened incredibly rapidly…so rapidly that I scarcely had time to think. And it was just a matter of “Well, either you’re ready to do this or you’re not. Either you’re prepared, or you’re not. And, eh..”

DF: It looks to me as though you two- or you, in particular, are one of the few who was able to cope pretty damn well- or it seemed to me as though you did- with literally, overnight success.

M: Well, it felt very overnight, it really did. But I think I was prepared- because even as a child, I could never stop singing and I was truly obsessed with pop music and I had thoughts of doing it throughout the period that we know as punk and it never happened. So..the door opened, and… there I was.

DF: And it was a good five years.

M: Yes, it was.

DF: You all had good fun.

M: Em…it was a very…interesting way to pass five years. Fascinating. And it was like a constantly revolving door.

DF: But a lot of laughter.

M: Umm.. a few giggles, yes..a few giggles…would I say laughter? Yes, little bits of laughter.

DF: And when Johnny left then, when he did leave, around ’87, that must have been a bit of a shock.

M: Yes, it was. It was a shock. And I think it was a really bad idea, as well. I don’t know how he lived with it, really.

DF: Well (Morrissey laughs) he wanted to do something else outside The Smiths, you didn’t!

M: Well, no, I didn’t, I never imagined I would be solo and I think he wanted to work with other people, but I imagine that need was temporary. And I think he probably did regret dissolving it.

DF: And if it was temporary in a very short space of time, you think he didn’t have the pride to say “Listen, sorry- that was really only a six month thing, let’s get back to The Smiths”.

M: Oh yeah, he would never say that. No, never. He’d never say that. So, I mean, he just sort of…it was a dreadful decision he made and he supports it simply now by saying that “The Smiths were a terrible experience and Morrissey was evil and he made us record the Cilla Black song” and you know, that’s how he justifies his terrible decision, but… it is history now.

DF: It is history, but you’re also grown men now!

M: Only…

DF: Things do get buried.

M: Only outwardly.

DF: (Laughs) Yeah, ok, alright. So, with the music you’re making in the 1990’s, with the solo career that did happen, because you hadn’t planned this, but it had to happen, because what you do is make music, this is what you want to do..and almost ten albums down the line now. I mean, is there a vindication of any sort along the way here? Of “Look, y’know, it’s worked out well for me, I’m a musician, I’m doing what I’m doing and nobody else is”?

M: Well, originally, Johnny and I had signed a contract with EMI which was never fulfilled, so when the group dissolved, EMI contacted me and said “Don’t think you’re a free agent, you have to honour the Smiths contract” which is the same thing that happened with the contract we had in America. So both the labels pounced on me and said they had made this financial investment and I, as a solo artist, must honour it. And, which I did, which is something that Johnny completely slipped away from. So I wasn’t really that free, ‘cos people were telling me “Well, you have to record now, because you’re under contract”. But luckily, it turned out well.

DF: Mmm. “I’ll make a couple of number one solo albums and fourteen hit singles and..”

M: Yes, yes, it makes life more pleasant…

DF: I’m sure it does…

*Panic is played

DF: It’s the obvious thing that people have this phrase, a lot of British journalists have of “Being Morrissey”, where you can get a wry little sentence out that sort of dismisses any question that might have to go into too much detail or whatever…is that a defensive mechanism, or does it exist at all?

M: Well, I think it’s…I think it defines a certain type of sort of…supposedly willowy, but ummm….feisty character, I think. So it simply defines a type. I think…maybe not.

DF: Well, it’s not for you to have to worry about, I suppose..

M: It’s not for me to worry about, because…I am Morrissey.

DF: Exactly. Your music has been judged a lot more than a lot of other people’s music down through the years because… it just meant so much to so many people.

M: Yes, yes.

DF: Are you okay with that?

M: Well…..it annoys me sometimes because so many people in music just seem to get away with so much and so many artists who I think are absolutely dreadful are very leniently dealt with and…I never am, of course. People seem to take a very severe line and so…I just see so many people slipping through the net with just dreadful songs and dreadful presentation and…they go on to be multi-platinum and applauded and so forth and…it does irk me sometimes. But there’s nobody else I’d rather be…I don’t think “Well, I wish I was that person”. I don’t think anybody has the perfect career…everybody has great gaping holes in what they do.

DF: You’re not alone. I mean, I remember Randy Newman saying something about Bob Dylan like “If I was younger looking, better looking, east coast, smoked a bit of dope and didn’t come from a middle class/upper class family in LA, my albums might be treated the same way as Dylan’s were” and frankly, I think he’s got a point.

M: Yeah, but there’s too many ‘if’s’ isn’t there?

DF: (Laughs)

M: You know, if there was one, it’d be okay.

DF: Alright, okay.

*November Spawned A Monster is played

End of Part One.

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Dave Fanning interviews Morrissey on 2FM
Nov 8th 2002
Part 2

*This Charming Man is played

Dave Fanning: There are those, with regard to your music, that would maintain that you broke a lot of people’s hearts, and that basically you didn’t say sorry- is that a good thing?

Morrissey: I never felt sorry. So, why would I be saying sorry?

DF: Well, maybe your fans never wanted it any other way.

M: It doesn’t look as if they do, really. So why on earth I’d be sorry, I really don’t know.

DF: Okay, I am gonna throw, not one of your own quotes, but somebody did say that your favourite pose is to ‘affect the certainty of the doomed’. Is that really….(Morrissey laughs)…I mean, do you have a laugh?

M: All the time…I mean, it’s never unfunny, really…so those kind of things are part of the laugh. They’re quite amusing, when people say things like that. But what they’re talking about..let it be.

DF: Okay, but what would be your main instinct towards fellow humans? A lot of people would want to interact and check out…would you have basic mistrust?

M: Yeah, I’m very cautious, it takes me a very long time with people, a very long time. And eh…I think it’s safest to mistrust people, really…then the disappointment a few days later is somewhat softened.

DF: Right. ‘Cos after The Smiths, in the ’90’s, you have written all about life and it’s trivialities and it’s complexities...the same as what you did before, in some ways. Is that just it? Like….that’s your art, you want to reflect yourself and who you are, in your own surroundings?

M: Yes, yes, I think so, ‘cos I find it interesting.

DF: Okay, I mentioned a defensive weapon earlier on- is humour a defensive weapon?

M: Yes, absolutely. Humour is a weapon- completely a weapon. And eh…thank God.

DF: Okay. You did once say…(Morrissey chuckles)…okay, I’ll stop at this one, but your greatest weakness was your unsociability.

M: Erm…it was when we last met, which was about 17 years, so it’s not like that now. I’ve blossomed and bloomed.

DF: But would that- your unsociability- have been one of the reasons that you liked Johnny Marr? ‘Cos a lot of people kind of….they stuck to Johnny, they liked him, and you liked that too..

M: Well, yeah- but I don’t think anybody stuck to him for the reasons I did- it was a completely unique relationship. I thought his music combined sorrow and happiness. I thought it was very, very sad music- even the jovial tunes that he produced, I thought, had a tinge of terrible sadness. And he appears on the surface to be very humorous and very…very…happy, but in the music I hear sort of…pangs of sadness and that really drew me to his music. And I don’t think anybody really views it that way. I think they just think it’s ‘jingly-jangly’ and it’s um…perky. But..

DF: But what did you used to do? Did you used to have lyrics and say “Johnny, will you put some guitar on that?”

M: No, never, never. He simply gave me the music and then I began to hum. And then suddenly I’m saying the words.

DF: And do you get to do both jobs now?

M: No, no…it’s still pretty much the same. Still pretty much the same…but not with Johnny.

DF: No indeed.

M: You’ve noticed. (Laughs)

DF: (Laughs) Do you say that wistfully?

M: Oh, I just say it, you know….it just rolls off the tongue.

DF: Do you find it difficult to understand why so many people go through life alone?

M: No, I think everybody’s alone. They just don’t know it or they won’t admit it. Everybody’s alone. They have to be. We come in by ourselves, we go by ourselves.

DF: But then, what I mean is do you find it a privilege to live alone in some ways…

M: I do…

DF: And not have the burden of having to feel like you have to have somebody with you?

M: Yeah, I do…I do find it a privilege. I feel I have a very privileged life now, because I can live alone and I don’t have to put up with anything. Which is extraordinary. ‘Cos I think lots of people are trapped in relationships and so forth…

DF: What I mentioned earlier…sad, possessed…can I say ‘sad, possessed and proud of it?”

M: Can you?

DF: Yeah, I mean, would it go that far?

M: What, for yourself? (Laughs)

DF: No, no, for you..

M: (Laughing) You’re very free to say that for yourself, I won’t argue. Umm..I don’t feel sad, I really don’t! I absolutely swear, I don’t feel sad. I mean, people say..lots of people think I’m miserable and I don’t have a sense of humour but when people say that, what they really mean is ‘You don’t have THEIR sense of humour’, so erm..my philosophy is, um….sod them.

*Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now is played

DF: When you used to read all these magazines, as a teenager, and take in every single thing in the NME that was read and you’d write to them giving out about inaccuracies and all that sort of stuff…when they started doing this with YOU (Morrissey laughs) and ten pages a week, every bloody week for five years…

M: Yes, yes…(laughing)

DF: How did you feel when they started going on about how ‘nobody embodies the spirit of ‘80’s alienation like Morrissey does’ and that…it’s just like “yeah they’ve got it in one”….did you realise then that suddenly a lot of this writing might be a bit silly?

M: Well, unfortunately when you do read wonderful things about yourself, you do want to believe some of it, to be truthful. But are we ever objective about ourselves, I don’t know.. It’s just…I don’t collect any printed matter, now. Anything written about me, I don’t collect it. But, certainly earlier on, it’s fascinating to be dissected, because this is really all you’ve ever wanted and there, it happens…and it’s fascinating because I began to buy the music press in 1969 and I would never miss. And if I’d go on holiday, I’d order everything, so that when I returned 6 weeks later, there were 75 magazines waiting for me. And I was more than a typical pop kid, I was just dangerously obsessed with all that. And given the alternatives in life, it’s not been so bad.

DF: And when they did write about you, did they get it right?

M: Nah…no, never.

DF: Were they even interesting?

M: Yes, yes they were, because so many of the statements were so outlandish that that becomes interesting, but eh..I don’t think they ever get it right, ever. And even recently, I’m described as ‘overweight’ and er…they live in a world of their own. Absolutely.

DF: Yeah. In a generalised way about your own writing and the songs that you write, you kind of get the intensity of a feeling, but at the same time, you convey this kind of… irony within that intensity of a feeling, if you like. Is that…

M: Mmmm, yes.

DF: Yeah, that’s pretty good. Like, people know exactly…the Morrissey fans know exactly what I’m talking about here.

M: Yes, yes.

DF: Is that the way it is?

M: It IS the way it is, and it’s just really having the nerve or the guts to laugh at your own situation or your own shortcomings, or admitting at least, that they’re there. You know…’cos….lots of people don’t.

DF: You did a gig recently where you played a song on stage - ‘Late Night, Maudlin Street’ and you dedicated it…or you mentioned Katherine Cartlidge, who died recently…

M: Oh yes, yes…

DF: ‘Career Girls’ etc…was she someone who you thought had a great future in her, or…

M: I think there’s no doubt that she would have…and I was absolutely shocked by her death...she was 41. I thought she had a great screen presence and er…one of the very few modern British actors who I thought really had ‘it’ and it’s just terribly sad, terribly sad…but life..life is very weird…

DF: And do you look upon - do you look to the cinema, do you look to acting, the same way as I would suggest that you might because of the covers, of Smiths covers and all the rest of it?

M: Yeah, I always have, I always have…and I’ve always watched films with the sound down and listened to music at the same time and been very enhanced by…been very entranced by just the moving image, but yes…always film, from a very early age. But again, it’s very difficult to talk about because I was always so critical, so erm…but yes..

DF: Is there a comfort zone, Morrissey, that you like to kind of…maybe…get to, with a lot of things..I mean, comfortable is a word you’ve used a lot, like…you’re not comfortable flying, ‘the greatest comfort is solitude’ you’ve said, you’re not comfortable as being seen as weird, that’s fine by you…is there a certain thing of it? A level of where you want to be and comfort is really describing it?

M: Well…yes, it’s the point whereby you can look after yourself, because you understand yourself and eh…does that make sense? Yes?

DF: Yeah, it does, yeah..

M: And it must just be one of those old hoary, with a ‘h’, age things, whereby you simply understand yourself and at the same time, when you reach that point, you realise that you’re not so bad after all.

*What Difference Does It Make? is played

DF: Do you feel that the best of your songs will never date? I mean, I look back on a lot of programmes, of ‘I Love The 1980’s’ or whatever…it’s astonishing just how dreadful so much of it is…I’m quite proud of the fact that I often said a lot of the stuff was dreadful…like when you were starting out, you were coming in towards the tail end of say, New Romantics and all that kind of stuff….and to a song, it was just awful…well, 95% of it was anyway…and a lot of your songs had a serious test of time about them, like, they will stand it…

M: Yes.

DF: And you know this, don’t you?

M: I know this because they are songs and the back catalogue sells very well and has never stopped selling very, very well. And it’s because they are real songs.

DF: And those songs, now, mean an awful lot to you, maybe more than you buried them a little bit in the early 90’s…a little bit.

M: Well…

DF: You felt you had to.

M: Well, what could I really have done? I mean, could I have just… ran around singing all of them at the same time? Not really…No, they’ve never left me. They’ve never left me at all. I think they’re very powerful and I think they’re here to stay…and nothing to do with trend and nothing to do with hype, and nothing to do with some executive pushing them in the public’s face and I think it’s just down to…it has ALWAYS been up to…left, simply to people to discover and like or dislike the songs. Nobody’s ever been steam-rolled into accepting me or The Smiths- it’s always been word of mouth and just…which is the best way.

DF: Sure, but one of the things that was good about what you did in the’90’s was you had a solo career that was barrelling along quite nicely and everything was going fine- and then The Smiths stingrays suddenly hit again in terms of court cases etc- which are still going on.

M: Yes.

DF: Do you ever want to just bury it?

M: Eh…it’s never up to me, because I didn’t initiate the court case. So, I’m always just defending myself. And the person who is constantly on the attack, which is the Smiths drummer, doesn’t stop. It’s his career, it’s his lifestyle, to squeeze as much money from the memory of The Smiths as possible, so he just attacks me every day. And even at the Royal Albert Hall last week, he was sending all his little lawyers out to stand at the stage door and try and get the money that we earned at the Royal Albert Hall! And just issue all these writs…of course, he fails all the time, but he doesn’t stop. And umm..there’s been a few television programmes about The Smiths and he’s always there, talking about me all the time…it’s pathetic.

DF: So, has your faith in human nature been more damaged by what’s happened in court?

M: Not really, because I think I didn’t really have much faith in human nature…so it was simply…verifying everything that I had secretly assumed, to be truthful….

DF: Okay, but see, Morrissey, you didn’t want The Smiths to break up, but you didn’t argue, you didn’t cry, you didn’t plead with Johnny when he decided to suddenly leave -you were shocked, just…that was the only bit of emotion that you showed..

M: Yes.

DF: Was there any…looking back, could you have argued?

M: No. And I would never plead with anybody, for anything. So…no.

DF: What I’m trying to find out is, where is his position in the whole Smiths….that court case debacle at the moment?

M: Well, I mean…first of all, I think he benefited from The Smiths breaking up, because his profile became higher and people suddenly wanted to talk to him and ask him about it…so, in one way, what he did helped him. As far as the court case…um…he..in very basic principle supported me, but when he was in the….when he was being cross-examined, he didn’t. And the feeling from his legal representatives was “Well, maybe we can blame Morrissey ENTIRELY on this case and maybe this judge will deem Morrissey the one who was completely responsible, and not Morrissey/Marr, so Morrissey will have to pay all this money”. So, he deserted me, which…not for the first time.

DF: I was just going to say, has he ever rung up about the solo albums and said “Well done, that’s pretty good” or “That’s crap”, or..

M: Never once.

DF: Hasn’t he?

M: Never ever once, no.

DF: So you’re really gonna be on your own if those two guys are out there and Johnny...I always thought Johnny would be a good referee, if nothing else?

M: No, no..no…he doesn’t support me at all, unfortunately.

DF: And when, like..the law- do you think it’s possible to get justice, with the way the legal system is in Britain these days?

M: Well, I only have experience with that court case, and the judge was completely wayward. And Joyce walked into the court room with NO EVIDENCE at all, of his claim…I mean, his claim should never have made the High Court..

DF: Which is, ‘That I should get 25% of The Smiths’ live stuff’

M: Yes, which is a claim he didn’t bring until The Smiths were well and truly broken up.

DF: And there was no contract?

M: There was no contract, but he had always received 10%, which was very generous- he always KNEW he was receiving 10%, he accepted it, he was always happy, and throughout The Smiths’ existence, he never raised any objection, so by his actions, that is a contract.

DF: It’s terrible sad, isn’t it?

M: Er…well people are just obsessed with money and Joyce has no career, so he just lives off me.

DF: But how much was motivated by revenge, or is it 90% money?

M: I think it’s all about money, nothing else.

*The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get is played, followed by Hold On To Your Friends

DF: Johnny left, Mike destroyed The Smiths, and then Andy was still trying to remember his own name, was the phrase that was used kind of thing…I mean, you once said that they could be replaced in the same way that you can replace parts of a lawnmower and let’s be honest, there’s a point to that- it’s the Paul Weller/Jam thing again, I mean- you’re allowed say that, you know?

M: Well, y’know, I never actually said that.

DF: Oh. (Laughs)

M: (Laughs) But..the QC who cross-examined me in the court- HE made that statement and it was his view that I would feel that I would feel that they could be replaced like bits of a lawnmower- but the way he said it in the court, and the way it was accepted in the court statements was that it was from me, but it wasn’t from me at all. But I’m not saying that I disagree with it.

DF: Right, yeah. But the point I’m trying to get to here is that you did it all- you did all the Press, the promotions, you got the covers together, you wrote the damn stuff, you were the man, you were the pressure….and you know….it’s bad form, to say the very least, what’s going on.

M: Well, it is.

DF: And that’s why I can understand your obsession with this….and I wouldn’t call it an obsession…you’re going to the European Court Of Human Rights with this.

M: Yes. But you see, it’s very difficult when you stand up in a court and you tell the truth and a judge says you’re lying…that’s very, very difficult to live with. And when Joyce stands up and he lies, and the judge says you’re telling the truth…I mean, that’s absurd. And you would think that a judge would be intelligent enough to be able to judge…but this judge was obviously very wayward and he wanted to do something outrageous and give an outrageous verdict, which he did.

DF: Morrissey is anarchic, he’s a free spirit, he’s talented, in a field that these guys know nothing about. They- more than these two ex-Smiths people- were out to get you. Isn’t that really the bottom line?

M: Yes…well, it’s the bottom line and the only way they can get me is financially. They can’t do anything else to me and it’s all the spite of “How dare you go on and leave us behind?” Umm…and even, there was a MASSIVE witness evidence, written evidence against Joyce…a massive evidence which the judge just went “pfffffft”, which is illegal, really. But there’s no way you can get a judge. A judge can say “The Queen of England is…er…is African” and all these appeal judges will say “Well, yes, of course she’s African. It’s absurd to think she’s anything else”. It’s an incredible system. And all these judges are incredibly old, they’re all white, they’re all male, they all know nothing about real life as you or I may know about it, and they’re incredibly blinkered. They live in a world of their own and they’re answerable only to God and they’re untouchable by any…there’s no sort of complaints commission that will check a judge…nothing at all. So a judge can say whatever he or she likes, and they can do whatever they like. And there’s many instances in British criminal history where judges made atrocious decisions and allow killers to go out and kill again. But the judges are never reprimanded in any way. And there are a couple of complaints commissions in England like the Lord Chancellor and the Bar Council who accept, and are supposed to deal with complaints against judges- but they don’t. They just accept, or they gather all your evidence and your information, then they reply and reject your case without saying why. So, it’s an absolute shambles.

DF: I’m still just surprised that Johnny hasn’t rung you about all of this, or talked to you about all of this, I’m just…

M: Never. Even that fact alone, that we had never discussed it before the court case is practically illegal really, in England, because if you have a conflict of opinion, and you’re both supposedly defending a case, it shouldn’t happen. But this judge just brushed everything aside and said “Joyce is equal to Morrissey in every way” and even when Joyce stood up and said something nice about me in the court, the judge completely twisted it and made it negative and…so, the judge was completely corrupt.

*Please, Please, Please, Let Me Get What I Want is played

DF: Now, around the same time that this broke, you were touring with David Bowie and you called off the gigs with 20 minutes to go before you went on stage- was that a personal thing, or…? It wasn’t that you were playing with one of your heroes and he turned out to be a pain in the neck?

M: Well, not really…I mean …he was very odd to me. And he asked me to sing a few of his songs in my set, which I thought was wrong. And then after a few nights, he asked to join me during my set, which I thought was wrong, and I said ‘I can’t do this’. And then he would ask me if he could come on at the end and he would appear and I would disappear, so there would be no end and there would be no encore for me…

DF: And this wasn’t worked out well before the tour?

M: Not at all, not at all..

DF: This was during the tour, as a change?

M: Yes. And so therefore when we played in Dublin and I had gone off and he came on, and a lot of the crowd were still calling my name, and he was doing his set and he said “Don’t worry, Morrissey will be back later” but I was 100 miles down the road…. I just thought it was a bit showbizzy and I thought, “Well, this is really David Showie” and I thought, no.

DF: Sounds a bit like ‘once bitten, twice shy’, you won’t really be doing that again too soon, will you?

M: Well, I’m sure he wouldn’t ask me, but even if he…

DF: No, but with somebody else like that, it doesn’t really…sharing…

M: There’s only one or two people that I could try it with.

DF: Who would you like to…oh.

M: I’d imagine they’d never ask, so..

DF: Who would you like to try it with?

M: No! (Laughs) Who would I like to try it with? We’ll skip that question (laughs)

DF: Ok, let’s skip that question…listen, just one or two more little small things…Oasis has a backdrop of a British flag on their stage…the Spice Girls did the same thing. You did it before all that and you were called racist. Do you ever think they’re out to get you?

M: Well, they simply were. I don’t think anybody thought I was remotely racist. I mean, the NME put me on the cover and said “He is racist”. But I think if the NME really believed I was racist, they wouldn’t stick me on the cover, because groups who really ARE racist, they don’t receive any attention in the media, so I think it would be really irresponsible of the NME or anybody who believed I was racist, to stick me all over the place, saying “he’s racist”- because then I could capitalise upon it and get all of these people together and do all of these…fascinating things. But I’ve never felt remotely racist, and I don’t think people ever believed I was. But the editor of the NME at the time wanted to get rid of me and they find something…I never responded to them and it went on and on and on and on…and they blew it up, and they had to make it more, because otherwise, they would look very, very silly. And I think eventually they did look silly- I think the NME in the ‘90’s declined- they lost lots of readers. People no longer had any faith in the weekly press- and look at the weekly music press now- it’s gone! And the NME are struggling for their lives! Mind you, they have a new editor now, and they have new writers, but in the ‘90’s, it was…the NME just killed itself.

DF: Okay, but finally, what about music that you’ve got now- I mean- what’s this latino thing- are you into that kind of music big time?

M: Well, um…I’ve been in Los Angeles for four years now and it’s…

DF: How’s your neighbour Johnny Depp?

M: Well, we just um..

DF: Hang! (Laughs)

M: Chat over the wall every day and…

DF: Bring out the washing.. (laughs)

M: Hang out…um…it’s a hugely Hispanic community, and very interesting, very soothing. Very nice people. The music is very passionate and high-spirited and I like that. So, that’s just become an influence for me. But once again, most of the so-called ‘latino’ artists who make it big world-wide really have nothing to say. Same old story, really. You can only really get that far if it’s all ‘lowest common denominator’ and it’s so basic that it’s…I mean, how many people do you know that can fill a stadium and say something really useful or stir you, or start you? How many people do you know?

DF: Well there’s a handful I suppose, all right…I mean, there may be only a handful…

M: How big is your hand, though, that’s the question.

DF: Yeah, that’s the question, all right, okay (laughing)….Morrissey, thanks a million for talking to us and good luck on the road, and we look forward to album number ten.

M: Thank you so much.

DF: Thanks.

*How Soon Is Now? is played

End of Part 2.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enjoy
 
P

pillow

Guest
i heard it on 2 fm.
dave fanning is such an arse!
he tortured our poor moz,
like a worm on a coctail stick.
yet another opportunity to get under the morrissey skin squandered.
and remember,NEVER ask about the COURT CASE.
never.
NEVER!

what a rambling bumhole.
 
B

BoyRacer

Guest
I disage, i think fanning did a good job.If morrissey wasnt happy with the questions he wouldnt have answered them.
I thought it was a very good interview and Morrissey seemed happy to speak the truth and seemed impressed with some of the questions.

Thanks also for putting the transcript up it was very kind of ou.

Boyracer

> i heard it on 2 fm.
> dave fanning is such an arse!
> he tortured our poor moz,
> like a worm on a coctail stick.
> yet another opportunity to get under the morrissey skin squandered.
> and remember,NEVER ask about the COURT CASE.
> never.
> NEVER!

> what a rambling bumhole.
 
L

Lifeguard Sleeping

Guest
Thank You, BUT

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Same ol' questions, same ol' answers.

I wish Morrissey would do the Howard Stern show.
 
J

JS

Guest
Thanks!

> Dave Fanning interviews Morrissey on 2FM
> Part 1
> Nov 4 2002

> *Hand In Glove played followed by Everyday Is Like Sunday

> Dave Fanning: Okay Morrissey, tenth solo album, just tell us first of all,
> is it together, is it gonna be out soon, is it definitely gonna get a
> release, all that kind of thing?

> Morrissey: Well, em, many questions…is it together..it’s not recorded, I
> don’t have a deal, so, God knows. I’ve waited a long time for the right
> deal and eh…

> DF: Right, so it is just around the corner.

> M: Well, it’s a big corner, but yes.

> DF: And will it have songs that we’ve seen on stage like The First of the
> Gang To Die etc..

> M: Yes, yes, it will do. It will do if I can record it quite soon, but…

> DF: Because then it might change.

> M: Exactly.

> DF: You’re currently on tour, you’re playing Europe, you’ve played
> America, you’re going to Greece, you’re going to Australia…do you like it
> all, or is it something you feel you have to do?

> M: Well, no, I’ve never felt that I have to do anything, but it’s very
> enjoyable and also, when you’re about to go somewhere and they sell out
> very quickly, it puts a spring in your step and you really want to be
> there. I mean, if ahead of you was a series of empty halls then you’d lack
> enthusiasm, perhaps. But people are always so welcoming, so off I go.

> DF: Right. And what about the writing of the songs, say, for an album like
> this, is it the same you’ve done for previous albums, the same kind of
> way?

> M: Yes, same process, nothing very technical, nothing very complicated,
> just the strength of the written word and saying something very concisely
> and effectively and…

> DF: Profound or whatever…

> M: Well, profound, if I’m lucky, if I’m lucky..

> DF: Okay, but it is pen and paper as opposed to computer these days, isn’t
> it?

> M: It’s completely pen and paper, yes, yes…

> DF: Right. Just a few people that you’ve worked with on these solo albums
> over the last bunch of years, I mean, you’ve worked with Mick Ronson,
> you’ve worked with Steve Lilywhite, musician, producer, etc…

> M: Yes, yes…

> DF: Do you get much from them or is it just nice to get on with them, is
> that enough?

> M: Em, no..producers really do something, they actually do work and when
> you have a good producer who pulls things together and pulls people
> together it’s fascinating- fascinating to watch because you can record a
> song and think it’s incredible and you can think- well, we don’t really
> need a producer, the song is so wonderful and then somebody walks in and
> they do some very basic manoeuvres and you just see the song move a
> hundred octaves! And eh..so it’s fascinating when you see a producer at
> work.

> DF: Is it somewhat like a second opinion, though, in some ways? Because
> you can’t just always trust yourself?

> M: No, it’s more than just a second opinion because everybody can give a
> second opinion, but they don’t know their way around the desk and they
> can’t forsee how an instrument will sound if you do a certain thing to it,
> so, no, it’s more than just somebody sitting there saying “Well, I
> think..” ‘cos they do actually jump in and start to eh..manipulate,
> slightly. And they also push and that’s quite nice.

> DF: Okay, well what’s ‘quite nice’ with you, is you sound as though you’re
> in a position where you’re mellow to the point where you enjoy what you’re
> doing…maybe aggressive on stage or just like…y’know, everything is working
> out fine and you never want to play this fame game thing, which is being
> played more today than ever before..

> M: Yes..

> DF: Do you ever have any sympathy with those who play the fame game?

> M: Not really, I think people who play the fame game, which is practically
> everybody, most of them actually do so because they end up going further
> than they really ever should have. I mean, most people in pop music have
> no talent, it’s all simply look and nothing else- and maybe they never
> thought they’d ever be visible in any way, so to play the game they go
> further and if they’re lucky they’ll get some money. So, maybe the fame
> game is useful for people who are bereft of any imagination.

> DF: Well, you sing with the voice that you talk with, I mean a lot of
> people don’t, they put on this West Coast thingamibob..

> M: (sighs) Yes…

> DF: Now, this whole pop fame game thing, just to stay on that, does it,
> with you, induce a form of agoraphobia, like, the more you see, the more
> you just want to go back in and shut the door?

> M: Well, I think I’ve seen so much now and I don’t think anything would
> surprise me anymore..I don’t think so, not really. But I’m terribly
> cynical about the music industry and it’s easy to be so, but…I still love
> music. And I still love to sing. And I still love to present it and to try
> to be visible in a respectable way, so..

> DF: So when you talk about loving music and loving to sing, in your teens
> you were absolutely obsessed with music and pop music..

> M: Yes, yes…

> DF: And with the stuff that was in the NME and all that kind of stuff,
> writing to the NME etc…but when you talk about the vocal melodies and
> stuff of music…are the vocal melodies the one thing that are still the
> most important thing to you?

> M: To me, yes. And if there are groups or artists and they have bad
> singers or they have no vocal melodies, I can’t listen to them. And it
> doesn’t matter how they’re rated or how much people applaud them, if
> there’s a bad singer- and in most cases there is a bad singer, ‘cos very
> few people have interesting voices to me..so I end up just being a
> terrible critic about that.

> DF: So, lyrical content would be second in line?

> M: Well, it hardly ever comes into it because nobody has any decent
> lyrical content, really..I mean, there aren’t really any decent pop
> lyricists around, are there?

> DF: There’s a few!

> M: How many can you name?

> DF: Well I can start with Nick Cave, I think he’s great, although he’s not
> a pop lyricist as such..are you talking about like, pure pop, as in, chart
> pop? Because there’s certainly nothing there!

> M: Well, when was the last time you heard a few lines that really made you
> leap and caught you by surprise?

> DF: But a pop lyricist…

> M: See, you’re not answering!

> DF: Ok, ok, ok, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you! (Morrissey laughs) We’ll
> stay with Nick Cave then, there’s a song called ‘Are You The One That I’ve
> Been Waiting For?’- some of the lines in that are just fantastic..

> M: Right…

> DF: There’s the “Stars have their moment when they die” line, well it ends
> with that, there’s about five beforehand and the whole nine lines, or the
> seven lines, are great! Yeah but okay, that was five years ago! (Laughs)

> M: (Laughing) Exactly, exactly… And…maybe it didn’t catch you by surprise
> ‘cos you were listening anyway..and you liked him so much that you were
> ready to like it.

> DF: I expected it. No question about it, yeah…

> *Bigmouth Strikes Again is played, followed by William, It Was Really
> Nothing

> DF: Do you think it’s better that artists remain aloof and give off the
> vibe of being superior? I’ve often thought that you’ve looked up to people
> like that, right down through your career.

> M: Well, I don’t know how many people can really do that, because if you
> play the fame game then you just have to dive in and you have to be
> orchestrated somehow and if you don’t- if you’re uncontrollable- then
> people say you’re a problem. And if people can’t get one over on you, they
> say you’re a problem and you’re awkward. But it just means that they don’t
> really get away with anything where you’re concerned, so then they say
> you’re really difficult. But as far as I can see, most people do tow the
> line. I can’t really see anybody in pop music who’s rebellious. And
> certainly, when groups and artists have a certain footing and a large
> audience, they’re somewhat trapped. (Pause) God knows why…

> DF: But when you were that teen person I was talking about, compared to
> now and nobody ever believes that life goes as fast as it does - it goes
> so slow, I suppose, in your teen years, compared to your 20’s, 30’s or
> 40’s - are you ok with that?

> M: I feel fine, I mean..the older I get, the happier I feel and the
> prospect of a shock of grey hair, I think, is really quite nice..

> DF: And musically…do you feel as a vocalist you’re growing, or is that
> irrelevant?

> M: I feel, yeah- growing, I feel better- older, better and no, I don’t
> feel any kind of nervousness about the ‘dreaded’ looming years.

> DF: Right. Do you think that the music press have treated you a lot
> differently than when you were with The Smiths between ’85 and ’90 in all
> of the 1990’s with those nine solo albums?

> M: Well, yeah..they did, I mean they were terribly impatient in the ‘90’s
> and really unfriendly, as you might possibly have noticed, I don’t know.
> But yes, they tend to be very critical anyway, but I don’t mind, I’m used
> to it, it’s been 20 years really and I’m just used to all that now.. And
> people write things and they don’t really mean it and you meet them and
> they’re terribly nice and you say, well..it’s just all a strange system.

> DF: And what about the stuff that you would have in your live current set?
> I mean, there was a time in the ‘90’s - I might be wrong about this, I’m
> not 100% sure- that you wouldn’t have included Smiths songs?

> M: Well, I didn’t want to initially, because I think I did feel that if I
> had, I would have been criticised if The Smiths had ended and then I
> would’ve launched into a solo Smiths tour, so I purposely avoided all
> those songs and now I feel that they’re more mine than anybody else’s-
> they don’t belong to other people, so…I’m gonna sing them.

> DF: There was a time when it was said that if you met a complete stranger
> and they wanted to see the best of what Morrissey is, or what Morrissey
> was, you might look to Vauxhall & I, or Your Arsenal or whatever…could
> you now open the door to say “Well, look at the Smiths songs as well” and
> was there a time you had that door shut?

> M: No (Laughing) A nicely crafted question, but no. The door was always
> ajar, really. But when I became solo, I wanted to establish something, and
> for better or worse, I did. I wanted to take a solo leap and not just hide
> and pretend I was in the same situation. But you know, you can’t really
> win- I mean if you do this, people say “Well, why didn’t you do this?” and
> if you do this, they say “But yes, you should have done this!” so you
> think “To hell with it, really. Take me or leave me”.

> *There Is A Light That Never Goes Out is played, followed by Suedehead

> DF: A lot of your songs would be like…a conversation with yourself that
> you may never have had in the past.

> M: Yes.

> DF: I mean, obviously everybody talks about Morrissey in terms of ‘the way
> you were as a kid’ or ‘the way you grew up’ or the fact that you felt
> alone and you wanted to go..For instance, you used to go to Bowie and Roxy
> Music concerts, and you didn’t go in a crowd like most people do, you went
> by yourself..

> M: Yes, that’s right, yes…

> DF: Did you genuinely go to these things at the age of 12 and 13? That’s
> pretty young to be going to things like that by yourself!

> M: Yes, unbelievably, em…when I was 12 I went to see the New York Dolls in
> Manchester and Roxy Music and…the New York Dolls didn’t turn up because
> the drummer died the day before, but I was there from 8am, pressed against
> the door and then pressed against the stage and then they made the
> announcement that the drummer had died, and all the audience began to weep
> and…so yeah, to be going to see people like that, and Lou Reed at the age
> of 12..and he wouldn’t come on ‘til midnight, and he was singing about
> heroin and transexuality and…I thought it was fascinating. And much better
> than the world that everybody else knew in Manchester. I thought this is
> really interesting, these people are interesting. It’s eh..so…I was ready.
> I was ready for all that. I was ready for anything that was sort
> of..pushing people to question gender politics, or anything like that.
> Only because it was interesting.

> DF: And therefore, you were ready to become…did you want to become a star,
> by the way?

> M: Eh..I never believed I could be, because I was always terribly shy and
> I always felt that when you would see people on stage, and on television
> and so forth, that they must have had some incredible…er…what’s the
> word…umm…they must have been very outgoing and very brave and so forth,
> and I wasn’t that person. So when I found that I was beginning to do it I
> realised that it was easier than I thought.

> DF: And also, anything was an antidote to school, wasn’t it? Because
> school was a bit of a hellhole, wasn’t it?

> M: Yeah, it was shocking, really shocking. I mean, I can’t really…I didn’t
> survive school, to be honest. It still gives me nightmares, I can’t
> believe it was so bad, and so forth and….very shocking. But, you know, a
> common story, I think.

> DF: I was just gonna say, does it make you feel anyway better at all to
> know that there’s millions out there that feel the exact same way?

> M: No, no, because there’s millions who view education and…’it was a
> breeze’ and ‘it was useful’ and they got something from it and..those
> people I really envy, when they look back on their school days and college
> days and especially in America, when it was so fruitful and giving,
> education was so fruitful…I can’t imagine that. When I think of education
> and school I just think of violence and nothing else. And that’s the
> teachers, not the pupils.

> DF: Or the system, even.

> M: Yeah, the system, really.

> DF: And what about the sadism of Catholicism, or is sadism a bit of a big
> word?

> M: Eh…it’s well…it’s not that big, no…(chuckles) it’s quite sadistic, yes.
> But we can all survive that, really. We can all rationalise that.

> DF: But like, when you were a kid and you go to bed, I mean the Moors
> Murders happened and you had a song about that - did that affect you in a
> strange way? Did it give you nightmares, did it keep you awake?

> M: Well, em, yes, because at that time, the world was a very different
> place, in the ‘60’s, and it was incredibly shocking crimes and they still
> are shocking crimes. I mean, if you read the details of those crimes,
> they’re still very, very shocking now. So being in Manchester and being
> close by, being small, and all the victims, well most of the victims were
> quite small, it was a very profound thing. I mean, it still is. You see a
> picture of Myra Hindley or Ian Brady in the newspapers today and it’s
> almost like a Victorian…it’s almost like a witch trial or something. It’s
> got some strange mythology about it. They’re larger than life figures, the
> crime is still unbelievable.

> DF: It looks like we’re talking, having a conversation with the word
> compassion here…you once said “Compassion? I only have compassion for
> myself”

> M: (Chuckles)

> DF: (Laughs) I mean, should I not throw back old quotes, is that a mean
> one?!

> M: Well, some of them are useful, but yeah, I’d still say that today, I
> think.

> DF: I think one of the best ones is your description of Manchester-
> (laughing) “Docklands without the docks”. Was it that bad, yeah?

> M: (Laughing) Well, I believe there is a new Manchester now, I think
> there’s lots of bright, sparkling shops everywhere and people are
> rejuvenated, but you know, somehow I can’t imagine several industrial
> revolutions changing the people of Manchester- they won’t change. So there
> can’t really be a new Manchester.

> *The Headmaster Ritual is played

> DF: When, around the age of 17 or whatever it was, in 1979, you went out
> to a gig and met Johnny Marr..was that a really pivotal..this was like
> “This moment..”

> M: Well, no, it didn’t seem so at the time. I’d first met him at a Patti
> Smith concert and…then we didn’t meet each other for 4 years and eh….but
> no, it didn’t seem pivotal at the time. But when we began to form The
> Smiths, everything happened incredibly rapidly…so rapidly that I scarcely
> had time to think. And it was just a matter of “Well, either you’re ready
> to do this or you’re not. Either you’re prepared, or you’re not. And,
> eh..”

> DF: It looks to me as though you two- or you, in particular, are one of
> the few who was able to cope pretty damn well- or it seemed to me as
> though you did- with literally, overnight success.

> M: Well, it felt very overnight, it really did. But I think I was
> prepared- because even as a child, I could never stop singing and I was
> truly obsessed with pop music and I had thoughts of doing it throughout
> the period that we know as punk and it never happened. So..the door
> opened, and… there I was.

> DF: And it was a good five years.

> M: Yes, it was.

> DF: You all had good fun.

> M: Em…it was a very…interesting way to pass five years. Fascinating. And
> it was like a constantly revolving door.

> DF: But a lot of laughter.

> M: Umm.. a few giggles, yes..a few giggles…would I say laughter? Yes,
> little bits of laughter.

> DF: And when Johnny left then, when he did leave, around ’87, that must
> have been a bit of a shock.

> M: Yes, it was. It was a shock. And I think it was a really bad idea, as
> well. I don’t know how he lived with it, really.

> DF: Well (Morrissey laughs) he wanted to do something else outside The
> Smiths, you didn’t!

> M: Well, no, I didn’t, I never imagined I would be solo and I think he
> wanted to work with other people, but I imagine that need was temporary.
> And I think he probably did regret dissolving it.

> DF: And if it was temporary in a very short space of time, you think he
> didn’t have the pride to say “Listen, sorry- that was really only a six
> month thing, let’s get back to The Smiths”.

> M: Oh yeah, he would never say that. No, never. He’d never say that. So, I
> mean, he just sort of…it was a dreadful decision he made and he supports
> it simply now by saying that “The Smiths were a terrible experience and
> Morrissey was evil and he made us record the Cilla Black song” and you
> know, that’s how he justifies his terrible decision, but… it is history
> now.

> DF: It is history, but you’re also grown men now!

> M: Only…

> DF: Things do get buried.

> M: Only outwardly.

> DF: (Laughs) Yeah, ok, alright. So, with the music you’re making in the
> 1990’s, with the solo career that did happen, because you hadn’t planned
> this, but it had to happen, because what you do is make music, this is
> what you want to do..and almost ten albums down the line now. I mean, is
> there a vindication of any sort along the way here? Of “Look, y’know, it’s
> worked out well for me, I’m a musician, I’m doing what I’m doing and
> nobody else is”?

> M: Well, originally, Johnny and I had signed a contract with EMI which was
> never fulfilled, so when the group dissolved, EMI contacted me and said
> “Don’t think you’re a free agent, you have to honour the Smiths contract”
> which is the same thing that happened with the contract we had in America.
> So both the labels pounced on me and said they had made this financial
> investment and I, as a solo artist, must honour it. And, which I did,
> which is something that Johnny completely slipped away from. So I wasn’t
> really that free, ‘cos people were telling me “Well, you have to record
> now, because you’re under contract”. But luckily, it turned out well.

> DF: Mmm. “I’ll make a couple of number one solo albums and fourteen hit
> singles and..”

> M: Yes, yes, it makes life more pleasant…

> DF: I’m sure it does…

> *Panic is played

> DF: It’s the obvious thing that people have this phrase, a lot of British
> journalists have of “Being Morrissey”, where you can get a wry little
> sentence out that sort of dismisses any question that might have to go
> into too much detail or whatever…is that a defensive mechanism, or does it
> exist at all?

> M: Well, I think it’s…I think it defines a certain type of sort
> of…supposedly willowy, but ummm….feisty character, I think. So it simply
> defines a type. I think…maybe not.

> DF: Well, it’s not for you to have to worry about, I suppose..

> M: It’s not for me to worry about, because…I am Morrissey.

> DF: Exactly. Your music has been judged a lot more than a lot of other
> people’s music down through the years because… it just meant so much to so
> many people.

> M: Yes, yes.

> DF: Are you okay with that?

> M: Well…..it annoys me sometimes because so many people in music just seem
> to get away with so much and so many artists who I think are absolutely
> dreadful are very leniently dealt with and…I never am, of course. People
> seem to take a very severe line and so…I just see so many people slipping
> through the net with just dreadful songs and dreadful presentation
> and…they go on to be multi-platinum and applauded and so forth and…it does
> irk me sometimes. But there’s nobody else I’d rather be…I don’t think
> “Well, I wish I was that person”. I don’t think anybody has the perfect
> career…everybody has great gaping holes in what they do.

> DF: You’re not alone. I mean, I remember Randy Newman saying something
> about Bob Dylan like “If I was younger looking, better looking, east
> coast, smoked a bit of dope and didn’t come from a middle class/upper
> class family in LA, my albums might be treated the same way as Dylan’s
> were” and frankly, I think he’s got a point.

> M: Yeah, but there’s too many ‘if’s’ isn’t there?

> DF: (Laughs)

> M: You know, if there was one, it’d be okay.

> DF: Alright, okay.

> *November Spawned A Monster is played

> End of Part One.

>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Dave Fanning interviews Morrissey on 2FM
> Nov 8th 2002
> Part 2

> *This Charming Man is played

> Dave Fanning: There are those, with regard to your music, that would
> maintain that you broke a lot of people’s hearts, and that basically you
> didn’t say sorry- is that a good thing?

> Morrissey: I never felt sorry. So, why would I be saying sorry?

> DF: Well, maybe your fans never wanted it any other way.

> M: It doesn’t look as if they do, really. So why on earth I’d be sorry, I
> really don’t know.

> DF: Okay, I am gonna throw, not one of your own quotes, but somebody did
> say that your favourite pose is to ‘affect the certainty of the doomed’.
> Is that really….(Morrissey laughs)…I mean, do you have a laugh?

> M: All the time…I mean, it’s never unfunny, really…so those kind of things
> are part of the laugh. They’re quite amusing, when people say things like
> that. But what they’re talking about..let it be.

> DF: Okay, but what would be your main instinct towards fellow humans? A
> lot of people would want to interact and check out…would you have basic
> mistrust?

> M: Yeah, I’m very cautious, it takes me a very long time with people, a
> very long time. And eh…I think it’s safest to mistrust people, really…then
> the disappointment a few days later is somewhat softened.

> DF: Right. ‘Cos after The Smiths, in the ’90’s, you have written all about
> life and it’s trivialities and it’s complexities...the same as what you
> did before, in some ways. Is that just it? Like….that’s your art, you want
> to reflect yourself and who you are, in your own surroundings?

> M: Yes, yes, I think so, ‘cos I find it interesting.

> DF: Okay, I mentioned a defensive weapon earlier on- is humour a defensive
> weapon?

> M: Yes, absolutely. Humour is a weapon- completely a weapon. And eh…thank
> God.

> DF: Okay. You did once say…(Morrissey chuckles)…okay, I’ll stop at this
> one, but your greatest weakness was your unsociability.

> M: Erm…it was when we last met, which was about 17 years, so it’s not like
> that now. I’ve blossomed and bloomed.

> DF: But would that- your unsociability- have been one of the reasons that
> you liked Johnny Marr? ‘Cos a lot of people kind of….they stuck to Johnny,
> they liked him, and you liked that too..

> M: Well, yeah- but I don’t think anybody stuck to him for the reasons I
> did- it was a completely unique relationship. I thought his music combined
> sorrow and happiness. I thought it was very, very sad music- even the
> jovial tunes that he produced, I thought, had a tinge of terrible sadness.
> And he appears on the surface to be very humorous and very…very…happy, but
> in the music I hear sort of…pangs of sadness and that really drew me to
> his music. And I don’t think anybody really views it that way. I think
> they just think it’s ‘jingly-jangly’ and it’s um…perky. But..

> DF: But what did you used to do? Did you used to have lyrics and say
> “Johnny, will you put some guitar on that?”

> M: No, never, never. He simply gave me the music and then I began to hum.
> And then suddenly I’m saying the words.

> DF: And do you get to do both jobs now?

> M: No, no…it’s still pretty much the same. Still pretty much the same…but
> not with Johnny.

> DF: No indeed.

> M: You’ve noticed. (Laughs)

> DF: (Laughs) Do you say that wistfully?

> M: Oh, I just say it, you know….it just rolls off the tongue.

> DF: Do you find it difficult to understand why so many people go through
> life alone?

> M: No, I think everybody’s alone. They just don’t know it or they won’t
> admit it. Everybody’s alone. They have to be. We come in by ourselves, we
> go by ourselves.

> DF: But then, what I mean is do you find it a privilege to live alone in
> some ways…

> M: I do…

> DF: And not have the burden of having to feel like you have to have
> somebody with you?

> M: Yeah, I do…I do find it a privilege. I feel I have a very privileged
> life now, because I can live alone and I don’t have to put up with
> anything. Which is extraordinary. ‘Cos I think lots of people are trapped
> in relationships and so forth…

> DF: What I mentioned earlier…sad, possessed…can I say ‘sad, possessed and
> proud of it?”

> M: Can you?

> DF: Yeah, I mean, would it go that far?

> M: What, for yourself? (Laughs)

> DF: No, no, for you..

> M: (Laughing) You’re very free to say that for yourself, I won’t argue.
> Umm..I don’t feel sad, I really don’t! I absolutely swear, I don’t feel
> sad. I mean, people say..lots of people think I’m miserable and I don’t
> have a sense of humour but when people say that, what they really mean is
> ‘You don’t have THEIR sense of humour’, so erm..my philosophy is, um….sod
> them.

> *Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now is played

> DF: When you used to read all these magazines, as a teenager, and take in
> every single thing in the NME that was read and you’d write to them giving
> out about inaccuracies and all that sort of stuff…when they started doing
> this with YOU (Morrissey laughs) and ten pages a week, every bloody week
> for five years…

> M: Yes, yes…(laughing)

> DF: How did you feel when they started going on about how ‘nobody embodies
> the spirit of ‘80’s alienation like Morrissey does’ and that…it’s just
> like “yeah they’ve got it in one”….did you realise then that suddenly a
> lot of this writing might be a bit silly?

> M: Well, unfortunately when you do read wonderful things about yourself,
> you do want to believe some of it, to be truthful. But are we ever
> objective about ourselves, I don’t know.. It’s just…I don’t collect any
> printed matter, now. Anything written about me, I don’t collect it. But,
> certainly earlier on, it’s fascinating to be dissected, because this is
> really all you’ve ever wanted and there, it happens…and it’s fascinating
> because I began to buy the music press in 1969 and I would never miss. And
> if I’d go on holiday, I’d order everything, so that when I returned 6
> weeks later, there were 75 magazines waiting for me. And I was more than a
> typical pop kid, I was just dangerously obsessed with all that. And given
> the alternatives in life, it’s not been so bad.

> DF: And when they did write about you, did they get it right?

> M: Nah…no, never.

> DF: Were they even interesting?

> M: Yes, yes they were, because so many of the statements were so
> outlandish that that becomes interesting, but eh..I don’t think they ever
> get it right, ever. And even recently, I’m described as ‘overweight’ and
> er…they live in a world of their own. Absolutely.

> DF: Yeah. In a generalised way about your own writing and the songs that
> you write, you kind of get the intensity of a feeling, but at the same
> time, you convey this kind of… irony within that intensity of a feeling,
> if you like. Is that…

> M: Mmmm, yes.

> DF: Yeah, that’s pretty good. Like, people know exactly…the Morrissey fans
> know exactly what I’m talking about here.

> M: Yes, yes.

> DF: Is that the way it is?

> M: It IS the way it is, and it’s just really having the nerve or the guts
> to laugh at your own situation or your own shortcomings, or admitting at
> least, that they’re there. You know…’cos….lots of people don’t.

> DF: You did a gig recently where you played a song on stage - ‘Late Night,
> Maudlin Street’ and you dedicated it…or you mentioned Katherine Cartlidge,
> who died recently…

> M: Oh yes, yes…

> DF: ‘Career Girls’ etc…was she someone who you thought had a great future
> in her, or…

> M: I think there’s no doubt that she would have…and I was absolutely
> shocked by her death...she was 41. I thought she had a great screen
> presence and er…one of the very few modern British actors who I thought
> really had ‘it’ and it’s just terribly sad, terribly sad…but life..life is
> very weird…

> DF: And do you look upon - do you look to the cinema, do you look to
> acting, the same way as I would suggest that you might because of the
> covers, of Smiths covers and all the rest of it?

> M: Yeah, I always have, I always have…and I’ve always watched films with
> the sound down and listened to music at the same time and been very
> enhanced by…been very entranced by just the moving image, but yes…always
> film, from a very early age. But again, it’s very difficult to talk about
> because I was always so critical, so erm…but yes..

> DF: Is there a comfort zone, Morrissey, that you like to kind of…maybe…get
> to, with a lot of things..I mean, comfortable is a word you’ve used a lot,
> like…you’re not comfortable flying, ‘the greatest comfort is solitude’
> you’ve said, you’re not comfortable as being seen as weird, that’s fine by
> you…is there a certain thing of it? A level of where you want to be and
> comfort is really describing it?

> M: Well…yes, it’s the point whereby you can look after yourself, because
> you understand yourself and eh…does that make sense? Yes?

> DF: Yeah, it does, yeah..

> M: And it must just be one of those old hoary, with a ‘h’, age things,
> whereby you simply understand yourself and at the same time, when you
> reach that point, you realise that you’re not so bad after all.

> *What Difference Does It Make? is played

> DF: Do you feel that the best of your songs will never date? I mean, I
> look back on a lot of programmes, of ‘I Love The 1980’s’ or whatever…it’s
> astonishing just how dreadful so much of it is…I’m quite proud of the fact
> that I often said a lot of the stuff was dreadful…like when you were
> starting out, you were coming in towards the tail end of say, New
> Romantics and all that kind of stuff….and to a song, it was just
> awful…well, 95% of it was anyway…and a lot of your songs had a serious
> test of time about them, like, they will stand it…

> M: Yes.

> DF: And you know this, don’t you?

> M: I know this because they are songs and the back catalogue sells very
> well and has never stopped selling very, very well. And it’s because they
> are real songs.

> DF: And those songs, now, mean an awful lot to you, maybe more than you
> buried them a little bit in the early 90’s…a little bit.

> M: Well…

> DF: You felt you had to.

> M: Well, what could I really have done? I mean, could I have just… ran
> around singing all of them at the same time? Not really…No, they’ve never
> left me. They’ve never left me at all. I think they’re very powerful and I
> think they’re here to stay…and nothing to do with trend and nothing to do
> with hype, and nothing to do with some executive pushing them in the
> public’s face and I think it’s just down to…it has ALWAYS been up to…left,
> simply to people to discover and like or dislike the songs. Nobody’s ever
> been steam-rolled into accepting me or The Smiths- it’s always been word
> of mouth and just…which is the best way.

> DF: Sure, but one of the things that was good about what you did in
> the’90’s was you had a solo career that was barrelling along quite nicely
> and everything was going fine- and then The Smiths stingrays suddenly hit
> again in terms of court cases etc- which are still going on.

> M: Yes.

> DF: Do you ever want to just bury it?

> M: Eh…it’s never up to me, because I didn’t initiate the court case. So,
> I’m always just defending myself. And the person who is constantly on the
> attack, which is the Smiths drummer, doesn’t stop. It’s his career, it’s
> his lifestyle, to squeeze as much money from the memory of The Smiths as
> possible, so he just attacks me every day. And even at the Royal Albert
> Hall last week, he was sending all his little lawyers out to stand at the
> stage door and try and get the money that we earned at the Royal Albert
> Hall! And just issue all these writs…of course, he fails all the time, but
> he doesn’t stop. And umm..there’s been a few television programmes about
> The Smiths and he’s always there, talking about me all the time…it’s
> pathetic.

> DF: So, has your faith in human nature been more damaged by what’s
> happened in court?

> M: Not really, because I think I didn’t really have much faith in human
> nature…so it was simply…verifying everything that I had secretly assumed,
> to be truthful….

> DF: Okay, but see, Morrissey, you didn’t want The Smiths to break up, but
> you didn’t argue, you didn’t cry, you didn’t plead with Johnny when he
> decided to suddenly leave -you were shocked, just…that was the only bit of
> emotion that you showed..

> M: Yes.

> DF: Was there any…looking back, could you have argued?

> M: No. And I would never plead with anybody, for anything. So…no.

> DF: What I’m trying to find out is, where is his position in the whole
> Smiths….that court case debacle at the moment?

> M: Well, I mean…first of all, I think he benefited from The Smiths
> breaking up, because his profile became higher and people suddenly wanted
> to talk to him and ask him about it…so, in one way, what he did helped
> him. As far as the court case…um…he..in very basic principle supported me,
> but when he was in the….when he was being cross-examined, he didn’t. And
> the feeling from his legal representatives was “Well, maybe we can blame
> Morrissey ENTIRELY on this case and maybe this judge will deem Morrissey
> the one who was completely responsible, and not Morrissey/Marr, so
> Morrissey will have to pay all this money”. So, he deserted me, which…not
> for the first time.

> DF: I was just going to say, has he ever rung up about the solo albums and
> said “Well done, that’s pretty good” or “That’s crap”, or..

> M: Never once.

> DF: Hasn’t he?

> M: Never ever once, no.

> DF: So you’re really gonna be on your own if those two guys are out there
> and Johnny...I always thought Johnny would be a good referee, if nothing
> else?

> M: No, no..no…he doesn’t support me at all, unfortunately.

> DF: And when, like..the law- do you think it’s possible to get justice,
> with the way the legal system is in Britain these days?

> M: Well, I only have experience with that court case, and the judge was
> completely wayward. And Joyce walked into the court room with NO EVIDENCE
> at all, of his claim…I mean, his claim should never have made the High
> Court..

> DF: Which is, ‘That I should get 25% of The Smiths’ live stuff’

> M: Yes, which is a claim he didn’t bring until The Smiths were well and
> truly broken up.

> DF: And there was no contract?

> M: There was no contract, but he had always received 10%, which was very
> generous- he always KNEW he was receiving 10%, he accepted it, he was
> always happy, and throughout The Smiths’ existence, he never raised any
> objection, so by his actions, that is a contract.

> DF: It’s terrible sad, isn’t it?

> M: Er…well people are just obsessed with money and Joyce has no career, so
> he just lives off me.

> DF: But how much was motivated by revenge, or is it 90% money?

> M: I think it’s all about money, nothing else.

> *The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get is played, followed by Hold On
> To Your Friends

> DF: Johnny left, Mike destroyed The Smiths, and then Andy was still trying
> to remember his own name, was the phrase that was used kind of thing…I
> mean, you once said that they could be replaced in the same way that you
> can replace parts of a lawnmower and let’s be honest, there’s a point to
> that- it’s the Paul Weller/Jam thing again, I mean- you’re allowed say
> that, you know?

> M: Well, y’know, I never actually said that.

> DF: Oh. (Laughs)

> M: (Laughs) But..the QC who cross-examined me in the court- HE made that
> statement and it was his view that I would feel that I would feel that
> they could be replaced like bits of a lawnmower- but the way he said it in
> the court, and the way it was accepted in the court statements was that it
> was from me, but it wasn’t from me at all. But I’m not saying that I
> disagree with it.

> DF: Right, yeah. But the point I’m trying to get to here is that you did
> it all- you did all the Press, the promotions, you got the covers
> together, you wrote the damn stuff, you were the man, you were the
> pressure….and you know….it’s bad form, to say the very least, what’s going
> on.

> M: Well, it is.

> DF: And that’s why I can understand your obsession with this….and I
> wouldn’t call it an obsession…you’re going to the European Court Of Human
> Rights with this.

> M: Yes. But you see, it’s very difficult when you stand up in a court and
> you tell the truth and a judge says you’re lying…that’s very, very
> difficult to live with. And when Joyce stands up and he lies, and the
> judge says you’re telling the truth…I mean, that’s absurd. And you would
> think that a judge would be intelligent enough to be able to judge…but
> this judge was obviously very wayward and he wanted to do something
> outrageous and give an outrageous verdict, which he did.

> DF: Morrissey is anarchic, he’s a free spirit, he’s talented, in a field
> that these guys know nothing about. They- more than these two ex-Smiths
> people- were out to get you. Isn’t that really the bottom line?

> M: Yes…well, it’s the bottom line and the only way they can get me is
> financially. They can’t do anything else to me and it’s all the spite of
> “How dare you go on and leave us behind?” Umm…and even, there was a
> MASSIVE witness evidence, written evidence against Joyce…a massive
> evidence which the judge just went “pfffffft”, which is illegal, really.
> But there’s no way you can get a judge. A judge can say “The Queen of
> England is…er…is African” and all these appeal judges will say “Well, yes,
> of course she’s African. It’s absurd to think she’s anything else”. It’s
> an incredible system. And all these judges are incredibly old, they’re all
> white, they’re all male, they all know nothing about real life as you or I
> may know about it, and they’re incredibly blinkered. They live in a world
> of their own and they’re answerable only to God and they’re untouchable by
> any…there’s no sort of complaints commission that will check a
> judge…nothing at all. So a judge can say whatever he or she likes, and
> they can do whatever they like. And there’s many instances in British
> criminal history where judges made atrocious decisions and allow killers
> to go out and kill again. But the judges are never reprimanded in any way.
> And there are a couple of complaints commissions in England like the Lord
> Chancellor and the Bar Council who accept, and are supposed to deal with
> complaints against judges- but they don’t. They just accept, or they
> gather all your evidence and your information, then they reply and reject
> your case without saying why. So, it’s an absolute shambles.

> DF: I’m still just surprised that Johnny hasn’t rung you about all of
> this, or talked to you about all of this, I’m just…

> M: Never. Even that fact alone, that we had never discussed it before the
> court case is practically illegal really, in England, because if you have
> a conflict of opinion, and you’re both supposedly defending a case, it
> shouldn’t happen. But this judge just brushed everything aside and said
> “Joyce is equal to Morrissey in every way” and even when Joyce stood up
> and said something nice about me in the court, the judge completely
> twisted it and made it negative and…so, the judge was completely corrupt.

> *Please, Please, Please, Let Me Get What I Want is played

> DF: Now, around the same time that this broke, you were touring with David
> Bowie and you called off the gigs with 20 minutes to go before you went on
> stage- was that a personal thing, or…? It wasn’t that you were playing
> with one of your heroes and he turned out to be a pain in the neck?

> M: Well, not really…I mean …he was very odd to me. And he asked me to sing
> a few of his songs in my set, which I thought was wrong. And then after a
> few nights, he asked to join me during my set, which I thought was wrong,
> and I said ‘I can’t do this’. And then he would ask me if he could come on
> at the end and he would appear and I would disappear, so there would be no
> end and there would be no encore for me…

> DF: And this wasn’t worked out well before the tour?

> M: Not at all, not at all..

> DF: This was during the tour, as a change?

> M: Yes. And so therefore when we played in Dublin and I had gone off and
> he came on, and a lot of the crowd were still calling my name, and he was
> doing his set and he said “Don’t worry, Morrissey will be back later” but
> I was 100 miles down the road…. I just thought it was a bit showbizzy and
> I thought, “Well, this is really David Showie” and I thought, no.

> DF: Sounds a bit like ‘once bitten, twice shy’, you won’t really be doing
> that again too soon, will you?

> M: Well, I’m sure he wouldn’t ask me, but even if he…

> DF: No, but with somebody else like that, it doesn’t really…sharing…

> M: There’s only one or two people that I could try it with.

> DF: Who would you like to…oh.

> M: I’d imagine they’d never ask, so..

> DF: Who would you like to try it with?

> M: No! (Laughs) Who would I like to try it with? We’ll skip that question
> (laughs)

> DF: Ok, let’s skip that question…listen, just one or two more little small
> things…Oasis has a backdrop of a British flag on their stage…the Spice
> Girls did the same thing. You did it before all that and you were called
> racist. Do you ever think they’re out to get you?

> M: Well, they simply were. I don’t think anybody thought I was remotely
> racist. I mean, the NME put me on the cover and said “He is racist”. But I
> think if the NME really believed I was racist, they wouldn’t stick me on
> the cover, because groups who really ARE racist, they don’t receive any
> attention in the media, so I think it would be really irresponsible of the
> NME or anybody who believed I was racist, to stick me all over the place,
> saying “he’s racist”- because then I could capitalise upon it and get all
> of these people together and do all of these…fascinating things. But I’ve
> never felt remotely racist, and I don’t think people ever believed I was.
> But the editor of the NME at the time wanted to get rid of me and they
> find something…I never responded to them and it went on and on and on and
> on…and they blew it up, and they had to make it more, because otherwise,
> they would look very, very silly. And I think eventually they did look
> silly- I think the NME in the ‘90’s declined- they lost lots of readers.
> People no longer had any faith in the weekly press- and look at the weekly
> music press now- it’s gone! And the NME are struggling for their lives!
> Mind you, they have a new editor now, and they have new writers, but in
> the ‘90’s, it was…the NME just killed itself.

> DF: Okay, but finally, what about music that you’ve got now- I mean-
> what’s this latino thing- are you into that kind of music big time?

> M: Well, um…I’ve been in Los Angeles for four years now and it’s…

> DF: How’s your neighbour Johnny Depp?

> M: Well, we just um..

> DF: Hang! (Laughs)

> M: Chat over the wall every day and…

> DF: Bring out the washing.. (laughs)

> M: Hang out…um…it’s a hugely Hispanic community, and very interesting,
> very soothing. Very nice people. The music is very passionate and
> high-spirited and I like that. So, that’s just become an influence for me.
> But once again, most of the so-called ‘latino’ artists who make it big
> world-wide really have nothing to say. Same old story, really. You can
> only really get that far if it’s all ‘lowest common denominator’ and it’s
> so basic that it’s…I mean, how many people do you know that can fill a
> stadium and say something really useful or stir you, or start you? How
> many people do you know?

> DF: Well there’s a handful I suppose, all right…I mean, there may be only
> a handful…

> M: How big is your hand, though, that’s the question.

> DF: Yeah, that’s the question, all right, okay (laughing)….Morrissey,
> thanks a million for talking to us and good luck on the road, and we look
> forward to album number ten.

> M: Thank you so much.

> DF: Thanks.

> *How Soon Is Now? is played

> End of Part 2.

>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Enjoy
 
S

suzanne

Guest
wow thanks! this must have taken forever!

> M: There?s only one or two people that I could try it with.

> DF: Who would you like to?oh.

> M: I?d imagine they?d never ask, so..

> DF: Who would you like to try it with?

> M: No! (Laughs) Who would I like to try it with? We?ll skip that question
> (laughs)

aw...why doesn't mozzy say who he wants to sing with !
 
T

Tingle

Guest
Re: Joni Mitchell maybe?

> wow thanks! this must have taken forever!

> aw...why doesn't mozzy say who he wants to sing with !

Joni Mitchell SHHHHURELY!


 
S

suzanne

Guest
Re: Joni Mitchell maybe?

> Joni Mitchell SHHHHURELY!

if she's busy i'd fill in...i'm a poor substitution, but anything to get a new album out
 
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