Concerning the historic and enormously successful elections in Iraq

T

The Devil's Reject

Guest
The Iraqi people have disappointed the American and European Left yet again.

How dare so many Iraqis come out to vote that they had to keep polls open late to accomodate 'em. How dare even the Arab Sunnies come out in droves. come on, Zarqawi, there may still be time to blow up enough people to derail this thing! Don't they know that Michael Moore said the insurgants are their "minute men" and "freedom fighers"? Guess not. Hmm, who's side is the so-called anti-war movement on? The so-called humanitarians who wanted to cut and run before this day could take place. Makes me f***ing sick.

Anyway, cheers to the voters of Iraq.

As an Iraqi stated on the news today: “Every purple finger is a bullet to the chest of the terrorists.” Bless them.
 
Yes even the Sunnis

I'm not sure if George Galloway is in Britain today to comment. He may have flown back to Syria to give support to his favorite terror-regime. I'm sure he'll miss spending Christmases with Tariq Aziz. Well, at least he can take comfort in the knowledge that he managed to benefit himself financially to the harm of these Iraqi voters via the corrupted oil for food program. Way to pick your heroes, lefties. How about your buddy Ramsey Clark on the Saddam defense team. woo woo! Scum.
 
Re: f*** me! you're one boring sonofbitch

Are you happy for them? If you're not, you can easily ignore my posting. This thread is for people who support the Iraqi people. I realize that's boring to you. Maybe I should've posted about all the oil America is stealing from Iraq. Oh, one problem with that. It hasn't occurred.

-------------

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Vote-counting at polling stations across Iraq is beginning Thursday night, after Iraqis turned out in droves to elect their first full-term parliament since the ouster of Saddam Hussein.

Turnout was so heavy across the country that the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq gave provincial governments the discretion to keep polls open an hour past its 5 p.m. closing time. It was not clear where polling stations exercised this leeway.

Polling stations would close after the last person to arrive in line by 6 p.m. votes, IECI spokesman Farid Ayar said.

Also streaming to the polls were Sunni Arabs, who had stayed away from the polls in previous elections only to find they barely had a voice in government.

The high turnout was remarkable, considering curfews, bulked-up security, border closings, road closures and traffic bans across the country. In some cases, voters had to take long walks to get to polls. Many were seen happily thrusting their purple ink-stained fingers at photographers -- the colored fingers a symbol of Iraq's free elections.
 
Re: f*** me! you're one boring sonofbitch

> Maybe I should've posted about all the oil America is
> stealing from Iraq. Oh, one problem with that. It hasn't occurred.

I'm sure that won't stop Billy Bragg from singing his crappy song. The anti-liberation Left does tend to be oblivious to reality. Look at Morrissey pretending that OBESITY is the biggest threat to us all, whereas Islamic-fascism is just "so-called 'terrorism'", a figment of the imagination. Oh dear, the stupity never stops coming.
 
yawn

> I'm sure that won't stop Billy Bragg from singing his crappy song. The
> anti-liberation Left does tend to be oblivious to reality. Look at
> Morrissey pretending that OBESITY is the biggest threat to us all, whereas
> Islamic-fascism is just "so-called 'terrorism'", a figment of
> the imagination. Oh dear, the stupity never stops coming.

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Stupidity never stops coming. Fear food and an "obesity epidemic"; terrorism is just hype. haha

It's nice that you have a copy of Fast Food Nation on your nightstand.

But you needn't be sad, Morrissey. If obesity really were the "biggest" killer, that would mean we've done a righteous job licking other killers, something to rejoice over.

More likely, the over-eagerness to believe hysieria over obesity and diet without the teeniest bit of sketicism is because he wants it to be true. It's hilarious when someone pretending that Islamic-fascism is a figment of the media's imagination doesn't notice it is he who has been manipulated by alarmism with respect to food.
 
“Every purple finger is a bullet to the chest of the terrorists.” - an Iraqi voter on TV today
 
Don't drop the soap for anyone else but freeyourself
 
THIS ONE DESERVES A DOUBLE YAWN

YOU NEED TO GET OUT MORE AND MAYBE TRY AND GET LAID IT SHOULD SORT OUT ALL YOUR ANGER ISSUES, HOW SAD.LOL
 
Concerning the historic illegal invasion of Iraq

> The Iraqi people have disappointed the American and European Left yet
> again.

> How dare so many Iraqis come out to vote that they had to keep polls open
> late to accomodate 'em. How dare even the Arab Sunnies come out in droves.
> come on, Zarqawi, there may still be time to blow up enough people to
> derail this thing! Don't they know that Michael Moore said the insurgants
> are their "minute men" and "freedom fighers"? Guess
> not. Hmm, who's side is the so-called anti-war movement on? The so-called
> humanitarians who wanted to cut and run before this day could take place.
> Makes me f***ing sick.

> Anyway, cheers to the voters of Iraq.

> As an Iraqi stated on the news today: “Every purple finger is a bullet to
> the chest of the terrorists.” Bless them.

So the War is over now?

Let's just rerun that old footage of Bush in front of the Mission Accomplished banner. No need to set it all up again.

Michael Moore is not the issue. He is a film maker, not an elected official. The Michael Moore debate is a straw man argument. It's as if by finding something inaccurate in a FILM, a FILM, by Michael Moore, that this somehow discredits anyone that would question Bush's policies.

Yes, we should get out now, we should never have gone in the first place.
 
Re: Concerning the historic illegal invasion of Iraq

> So the War is over now?

Who said that? Obviously there's still a tough raod ahead. It's a significant step though. And Americans should join Iraqis in celebrating it tonight.

Don't you ever pause and think to yourself, "You know, 3 months ago I was posting that we should pull our troops out RIGHT NOW, but if we had done that Iraq would've derailed and these elections never would've happened." It doesn't mean you have to support the liberation. It doesn't mean you have to like Bush. It doesn't mean you can't still say it was an illegal war, blah blah. But my god, if we had done what you were posting 3 months ago, and what many on the Left generally were pushing for, it would've been terrible for everybody.

> Michael Moore is not the issue. He is a film maker, not an elected
> official.

Oh, he absolutely IS an issue. He sat in the VIP booth at Kerry's convention. Democrat congressman made a big media event of going to his movie. The left-wing press canonized him and his films. And none of them took him for task for saying the insurgancy are the "minute men", the "freedom fighters", the SIDE HE IS ON.

>The Michael Moore debate is a straw man argument. It's as if by
> finding something inaccurate in a FILM, a FILM, by Michael Moore, that
> this somehow discredits anyone that would question Bush's policies.

The anti-war movement chose him as one of their spokesmen and chose his film as representative of their worldview. If they'd like to distance themselves from it, I encourage them.

> Yes, we should get out now, we should never have gone in the first place.

And the humanitarian consequences of premature pull-out mean nothing to you?

I understand there must be a fear amongst some that if they can't derail the mission before its finished it could succeed and how will they paint them in history 100 years from now?
 
Premature

The point you make in a few of your posts is basically, "Look what a difference three months makes". Well, take your own advice. Wait three months. Wait three years. See where Iraq is then.

Because Iraq will almost certainly fail. This is not a desire of mine. This is simply the likely scenario. Indeed, the idea of a democratic Iraq should thrill everyone in the world. Who wouldn't want that? Who would prefer Saddam Hussein? But serious questions are unanswered. Will this new government be able to implement its policies? Will Iraq be a strong state or a loose confederacy? Will the new regime tilt toward theocracy? Will the new regime be friendly to the United States, or to Iran? Will the United States suffer blowback? Have more terrorists been created by our war, or has the U.S. stamped out huge chunks of the enemy?

Right now the answers to those questions don't look good, either for the United States, or for the idea of a free, sovereign, Western-friendly Iraq.

And you're grossly simplifying the left. Michael Moore, ANSWER, and all the others are merely the most visible elements of the extreme left. There are far more moderate leftists, like myself, who believe that the corrupt origins of this war will only plant the seeds for a poison blossom. The Bush Administration has lied about this war from the word go-- even if one takes a kind view and holds that Bush and the war machine didn't deliberately lie, but simply believed what they wanted to believe and hence were acting in good faith in a loose sense, lies still pollute this war. Not only that, but once begun the war, in almost every phase, has been a catastrophe of world-historical proportions. The mismanagement has been disgusting, starting with the number of ground troops Rumsfeld sent and the appalling lack of security provided to the Iraqi people and their infrastructure ("stuff happens").

That's the issue many people on the left have with Bush's war. And now some Republicans are starting to agree. Some Republicans are starting to comprehend that Bush isn't even a good Republican President, let alone a good President. The compromise of American principles to fight an elective war on Bush's part has been steep, and may get worse. The U.S. is not safer than it was three years ago. All sense of fiscal responsibility is gone from Washington. Propaganda is filling the airwaves both at home and abroad-- also known as officially sanctioned lying. A White House leak compromised a CIA agent merely for political retribution. The President of the United States is obviously condoning torture, despite what he claims. Our armed forces have been gutted.

The Republicans control Washington. The Democrats are in a decisive minority and spineless to boot. Bush got everything he wanted and it's all gone sour. There's just no one left to blame anymore. Certainly not Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan or any of the circus freaks who make up the extreme anti-war party. Bush got his war, and these elections are hardly the watershed moments everyone-- even diehard lefties-- wants them to be. You do understand, don't you, that the last round of elections, as fun as they looked on TV, pushed Iraq away from the United States? That it was a victory for a government that would be closer to the Axis of Evil than to Uncle Sam? What makes you think this one will have a different outcome?

The fact is, one no longer needs to be an extremist left-winger to oppose this war. One merely needs to be sensible about things, and mindful of a smattering of history, to understand that this election does not undo the damage Bush has done to this country, and it in no way guarantees the success of Iraq as a Westernized democracy that will "turn the tide" in the Middle East. The U.S. hit the iceberg a long time ago. Now it's just a question of how fast we sink.

As for Iraq, I hope I'm wrong. I hope all the signs pointing to a failed state vanish. Really. Dead Iraqis give me no pleasure, nor does the daily reminder that the U.S. is losing the war. But like you said-- wait. Since 2001 Bush has spun his fables from on high, but every one of them-- every last one of them-- has failed to come true. You might call that a trend. The scales will fall from your eyes soon enough-- assuming you have eyes to see.
 
Re: Concerning the historic illegal invasion of Iraq

> Who said that? Obviously there's still a tough raod ahead. It's a
> significant step though. And Americans should join Iraqis in celebrating
> it tonight.

Bush said it. http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/01/sprj.irq.main/

> Don't you ever pause and think to yourself, "You know, 3 months ago I
> was posting that we should pull our troops out RIGHT NOW, but if we had
> done that Iraq would've derailed and these elections never would've
> happened." It doesn't mean you have to support the liberation. It
> doesn't mean you have to like Bush. It doesn't mean you can't still say it
> was an illegal war, blah blah. But my god, if we had done what you were
> posting 3 months ago, and what many on the Left generally were pushing
> for, it would've been terrible for everybody.

This election and the effect it actually has on "democracy in Iraq" remain to be seen. Isn't it true that "those people" have a different idea of what constitutes democracy and equality? I think we have actually been becoming more like them than they have like us, with secret CIA prisons in Europe for example.

> Oh, he absolutely IS an issue. He sat in the VIP booth at Kerry's
> convention. Democrat congressman made a big media event of going to his
> movie. The left-wing press canonized him and his films. And none of them
> took him for task for saying the insurgancy are the "minute
> men", the "freedom fighters", the SIDE HE IS ON.

> The anti-war movement chose him as one of their spokesmen and chose his
> film as representative of their worldview. If they'd like to distance
> themselves from it, I encourage them.

I don't distance myself from him because I never said he had all the answers. My point is that he is an artist. Even if every line in every movie he made was a huge lie, he is just a filmmaker. It's sort of like Bill O'Reilly. I don't think he is "fair and balanced" but I recognize that he is a media figure. He has slightly more credibility that Rush Limbaugh but it's there to sell advertising, I think. Although FOX news did seem to have possibly had some effect on Bush's "election".

I know that "Michael Moron" is a great catchphrase, but the fact remains that many of the things he exposed in his movie are facts and were known before his film. I read about the family members of Bin Laden being whisked out of the country in Rolling Stone magazine way before I ever saw Farenheit 911. Whatever flaws it may have in editing, it is a movie everyone should see.
Honestly, let's leave out the 2004 election, that one is a little more subtle. But aren't you embarrassed by what this country went through in 2000? Are we really qualified to judge the fairness of an election in another country?

> And the humanitarian consequences of premature pull-out mean nothing to
> you?
This phrase is problematic, containing "humanitarian" and "premature". I think the invasion was premature. Anyone that was paying attention could see that we were going to invade Iraq. It was a done deal and those weapons inspections meant nothing. They were just holding up the show.

Whether we pull out now or in 5 years or 25 years, what difference will it make? What are we trying to do there? I honestly think it has little to do with "Democracy in Iraq". Look at what is happening in China. Are we going to invade them too?

> I understand there must be a fear amongst some that if they can't derail
> the mission before its finished it could succeed and how will they paint
> them in history 100 years from now?
Listen didn't you see "Mission Accomplished"? Was that a lie? Why do I care about some argument that will take place in 100 years? You have more optimism in the future than I do.
I am not interested in derailing anything. I think things are going off the rails fast enough without my help.
 
Re: Stupidity never stops coming. Fear food and an "obesity epidemic"; terrorism is just hype. haha

are you a f***ing moron?

are you ann coulter?

you should kill yourself.

> It's nice that you have a copy of Fast Food Nation on your nightstand.

> But you needn't be sad, Morrissey. If obesity really were the
> "biggest" killer, that would mean we've done a righteous job
> licking other killers, something to rejoice over.

> More likely, the over-eagerness to believe hysieria over obesity and diet
> without the teeniest bit of sketicism is because he wants it to be true.
> It's hilarious when someone pretending that Islamic-fascism is a figment
> of the media's imagination doesn't notice it is he who has been
> manipulated by alarmism with respect to food.
 
God bless America for disposing of one of the cruelest despots in history

couldnt agree more with your posts Devils...its easy to sit back and do nothing while your fat and happy but so few take action, George Bush will be remembered (in many many years from now) as a great American President who brought peace to a nation oppressed and terrorized

> Are you happy for them? If you're not, you can easily ignore my posting.
> This thread is for people who support the Iraqi people. I realize that's
> boring to you. Maybe I should've posted about all the oil America is
> stealing from Iraq. Oh, one problem with that. It hasn't occurred.

> -------------

> BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Vote-counting at polling stations across Iraq is
> beginning Thursday night, after Iraqis turned out in droves to elect their
> first full-term parliament since the ouster of Saddam Hussein.

> Turnout was so heavy across the country that the Independent Electoral
> Commission of Iraq gave provincial governments the discretion to keep
> polls open an hour past its 5 p.m. closing time. It was not clear where
> polling stations exercised this leeway.

> Polling stations would close after the last person to arrive in line by 6
> p.m. votes, IECI spokesman Farid Ayar said.

> Also streaming to the polls were Sunni Arabs, who had stayed away from the
> polls in previous elections only to find they barely had a voice in
> government.

> The high turnout was remarkable, considering curfews, bulked-up security,
> border closings, road closures and traffic bans across the country. In
> some cases, voters had to take long walks to get to polls. Many were seen
> happily thrusting their purple ink-stained fingers at photographers -- the
> colored fingers a symbol of Iraq's free elections.
 
George W. Bush is the PEOPLE'S HERO

> The point you make in a few of your posts is basically, "Look what a
> difference three months makes". Well, take your own advice. Wait
> three months. Wait three years. See where Iraq is then.

> Because Iraq will almost certainly fail. This is not a desire of mine.
> This is simply the likely scenario. Indeed, the idea of a democratic Iraq
> should thrill everyone in the world. Who wouldn't want that? Who would
> prefer Saddam Hussein? But serious questions are unanswered. Will this new
> government be able to implement its policies? Will Iraq be a strong state
> or a loose confederacy? Will the new regime tilt toward theocracy? Will
> the new regime be friendly to the United States, or to Iran? Will the
> United States suffer blowback? Have more terrorists been created by our
> war, or has the U.S. stamped out huge chunks of the enemy?

> Right now the answers to those questions don't look good, either for the
> United States, or for the idea of a free, sovereign, Western-friendly
> Iraq.

> And you're grossly simplifying the left. Michael Moore, ANSWER, and all
> the others are merely the most visible elements of the extreme left. There
> are far more moderate leftists, like myself, who believe that the corrupt
> origins of this war will only plant the seeds for a poison blossom. The
> Bush Administration has lied about this war from the word go-- even if one
> takes a kind view and holds that Bush and the war machine didn't
> deliberately lie, but simply believed what they wanted to believe and
> hence were acting in good faith in a loose sense, lies still pollute this
> war. Not only that, but once begun the war, in almost every phase, has
> been a catastrophe of world-historical proportions. The mismanagement has
> been disgusting, starting with the number of ground troops Rumsfeld sent
> and the appalling lack of security provided to the Iraqi people and their
> infrastructure ("stuff happens").

> That's the issue many people on the left have with Bush's war. And now
> some Republicans are starting to agree. Some Republicans are starting to
> comprehend that Bush isn't even a good Republican President, let alone a
> good President. The compromise of American principles to fight an elective
> war on Bush's part has been steep, and may get worse. The U.S. is not
> safer than it was three years ago. All sense of fiscal responsibility is
> gone from Washington. Propaganda is filling the airwaves both at home and
> abroad-- also known as officially sanctioned lying. A White House leak
> compromised a CIA agent merely for political retribution. The President of
> the United States is obviously condoning torture, despite what he claims.
> Our armed forces have been gutted.

> The Republicans control Washington. The Democrats are in a decisive
> minority and spineless to boot. Bush got everything he wanted and it's all
> gone sour. There's just no one left to blame anymore. Certainly not
> Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan or any of the circus freaks who make up the
> extreme anti-war party. Bush got his war, and these elections are hardly
> the watershed moments everyone-- even diehard lefties-- wants them to be.
> You do understand, don't you, that the last round of elections, as fun as
> they looked on TV, pushed Iraq away from the United States? That it was a
> victory for a government that would be closer to the Axis of Evil than to
> Uncle Sam? What makes you think this one will have a different outcome?

> The fact is, one no longer needs to be an extremist left-winger to oppose
> this war. One merely needs to be sensible about things, and mindful of a
> smattering of history, to understand that this election does not undo the
> damage Bush has done to this country, and it in no way guarantees the
> success of Iraq as a Westernized democracy that will "turn the
> tide" in the Middle East. The U.S. hit the iceberg a long time ago.
> Now it's just a question of how fast we sink.

> As for Iraq, I hope I'm wrong. I hope all the signs pointing to a failed
> state vanish. Really. Dead Iraqis give me no pleasure, nor does the daily
> reminder that the U.S. is losing the war. But like you said-- wait. Since
> 2001 Bush has spun his fables from on high, but every one of them-- every
> last one of them-- has failed to come true. You might call that a trend.
> The scales will fall from your eyes soon enough-- assuming you have eyes
> to see.

Bollocks mate. Even as an Englishman I agree that George W. Bush did something heroic and brilliant. I wish Blair could be half the man as the American, but then again, I wish England was part of America. Mr. Bush will go down in history as greater than even racist prick Churchill. If not for Mr. Bush, London would be run over with terrorists.
 
Maybe they were more "democratic" than we thought.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/15/politics/15cnd-program.html?ex=1292302800&en=46373698e4101aca&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 ­- Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials.

Under a presidential order signed in 2002, the intelligence agency has monitored the international telephone calls and international e-mail messages of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States without warrants over the past three years in an effort to track possible "dirty numbers" linked to Al Qaeda, the officials said. The agency, they said, still seeks warrants to monitor entirely domestic communications.

"they said"
 
Re: God bless America for disposing of one of the cruelest despots in history

> couldnt agree more with your posts Devils...its easy to sit back and do
> nothing while your fat and happy but so few take action, George Bush will
> be remembered (in many many years from now) as a great American President
> who brought peace to a nation oppressed and terrorized

I imagine that if there are many many years left, either everyone will be afraid to mention the name George Bush for fear of being tossed into some secret prison, or hopefully the truth will come out and he will be recognized as a brutal idiot.

Nobody here cares about Iraq. We didn't go there to liberate them. It is revisionist history at it's most blatant.
 
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