"Bulbous salutation in the otherwise festive zone" card

Posted by @mikejoyce / Twitter:

@mikejoyce: It was sent to me today.

 

[Poet]

This is hilarious. The Queen ordered the judge. Even Ketamine wouldn't write such...i'm out of adjectives.

I'm sure you are.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Article: "Bulbous salutation in the otherwise festive zone" card

' So, it surely leaves Mike on 25%.' Does it ? I have no idea. I can't imagine Marr and M continuing to pay A&M 25% from late 84 to the bands split if they M&M agreed that A&M will be getting 10%.

' You just can't unilaterally change the terms on someone you are working with two years into the deal.'
That's if they all signed for 25% in a first contract. Or all agreed on a verbal contract. I would think.

Thing is according to M, in court Joyce said he just assumed he was getting 25% and that he didn't 'remember'. What didn't he remember? That he agreed to 10% ? didn't agree? Well he surely remembers now that he was told
in late 84 that he was getting a 10% share. But that wouldn't have helped him in court though.

'Mike *could* have quit the band at this point, but why should he?' Because (to me) I see it as Marr & M starting the Smiths, Mike was asked to join. I really do see Marr & M holding the reins of power in the Smiths. And both performing duties that went beyond showing up for rehearsals and playing live.

According to the law when no contract says otherwise ownership is split equally. Now, would you please educate yourself and/or switch topics? All you're doing is representing a group of people that think Morrissey could do no wrong. These are the kinds of fans that everyone hates including the star to whom they give their devotion. I don't know how many interviews and comments I've read with pop stars where they say they came to secretly despise their fans because they would have a bad night, go offstage and be told they'd never played better. Or they get letters from people expressing a deep personal connection and they don't know the person at all or care to. Morrissey is some old British dude who at one point owned the concepts of unrequited love and what it's like to grow up feeling like an outsider, but that's all he is. He's a pop star and he used to be really good at his job. One of the greatest ever.
But as a person he is deeply flawed and he's been telling us this for a long time.
Back to the case, HE LOST! You can't win this argument. If there was anything you could think of to say now Morrissey's lawyers, who know a lot more about the law and about the details of the case, would he thought of it in 2006 or whatever.
Talk about something else.
The more you talk about this the more I want to sell my Morrissey stuff and send the money to Mike Joyce. f*** Morrissey. No nor literally but metaphorically. As I said before, EVEN IF, by some arbitrary standard, HE DESERVED THE MONEY, HE DID IT WRONG.
You are WRONG.
You CAN'T WIN.
GIVE UP.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Article: "Bulbous salutation in the otherwise festive zone" card

' So, it surely leaves Mike on 25%.' Does it ? I have no idea. I can't imagine Marr and M continuing to pay A&M 25% from late 84 to the bands split if they M&M agreed that A&M will be getting 10%.

' You just can't unilaterally change the terms on someone you are working with two years into the deal.'
That's if they all signed for 25% in a first contract. Or all agreed on a verbal contract. I would think.

Thing is according to M, in court Joyce said he just assumed he was getting 25% and that he didn't 'remember'. What didn't he remember? That he agreed to 10% ? didn't agree? Well he surely remembers now that he was told
in late 84 that he was getting a 10% share. But that wouldn't have helped him in court though.

'Mike *could* have quit the band at this point, but why should he?' Because (to me) I see it as Marr & M starting the Smiths, Mike was asked to join. I really do see Marr & M holding the reins of power in the Smiths. And both performing duties that went beyond showing up for rehearsals and playing live.

I agree with you to a point, from a writing and royalty perspective, Morrissey should have been entitled to more but 10% to Mike is grossly unfair and shows what tight gets Morrisseey and Marr were. was. Another lesser well known Manchester four piece went with 20% each to the bassist and drummer and 30% to the song writers therefore showing respect for the contribution they made.

I don't think the word respect has ever left Morrissey mouth pre or post The Smiths and maybe therein lies the problem.

 

[countthree]

Re: Article: "Bulbous salutation in the otherwise festive zone" card

According to the law when no contract says otherwise ownership is split equally. Now, would you please educate yourself and/or switch topics? All you're doing is representing a group of people that think Morrissey could do no wrong. These are the kinds of fans that everyone hates including the star to whom they give their devotion. I don't know how many interviews and comments I've read with pop stars where they say they came to secretly despise their fans because they would have a bad night, go offstage and be told they'd never played better. Or they get letters from people expressing a deep personal connection and they don't know the person at all or care to. Morrissey is some old British dude who at one point owned the concepts of unrequited love and what it's like to grow up feeling like an outsider, but that's all he is. He's a pop star and he used to be really good at his job. One of the greatest ever.
But as a person he is deeply flawed and he's been telling us this for a long time.
Back to the case, HE LOST! You can't win this argument. If there was anything you could think of to say now Morrissey's lawyers, who know a lot more about the law and about the details of the case, would he thought of it in 2006 or whatever.
Talk about something else.
The more you talk about this the more I want to sell my Morrissey stuff and send the money to Mike Joyce. f*** Morrissey. No nor literally but metaphorically. As I said before, EVEN IF, by some arbitrary standard, HE DESERVED THE MONEY, HE DID IT WRONG.
You are WRONG.
You CAN'T WIN.
GIVE UP.

Hey you cheap bully, why do you attack Ketamine Sun? S/he is a sweet person who gives a personal opinion based on the facts she read on the autobigraphy and what Joyce said. S/he seems more informed than you, and has the right to say what s/he wants, all the times s/he likes. If s/he is a blind fan, that's her/his problem. It's 100 times worst to be a blind hater like you.

 

[Flibberty]

I think it's just daft for people to paint any lawsuit over money like this into being black and white. Loads of other bands like The Beach Boys, Spandau Ballet and even The Beatles have ended up getting themselves involved with legal wrangles and there doesn't always have to be a villain in cases like this. As soon as the lawyers get involved, all hell will break loose.

 

[countthree]

I think it's just daft for people to paint any lawsuit over money like this into being black and white. Loads of other bands like The Beach Boys, Spandau Ballet and even The Beatles have ended up getting themselves involved with legal wrangles and there doesn't always have to be a villain in cases like this. As soon as the lawyers get involved, all hell will break loose.

Since law is the rationalization of power, you don’t go to a court to seek justice, but an authority to enforce a claim. The idea of true justice on earth is an illusion, and even more when there’s a rigid social caste structure and you don’t belong to -or are in bad terms with- the dominant caste.

That’s what makes Joyce a treacherous and opportunistic person. He not only betrayed his colleagues denying a previous agreement that all of them fulfilled during several years without claims. Seriously, who can believe he didn’t know the terms of the agreement? He took advantage the agreement was not written. A huge punishment for a shared negligence.

But mainly, he placed his former teammates under a jurisdiction subject to the group of power against which some of the lyrics of the songs were protesting. In short, he sent his former colleagues to the slaughterhouse without any mercy. And all this for money. He is a disgusting person without moral boundaries. Unfortunately, the world is full of these characters. Those who defend Joyce today can come across one of them tomorrow. Life is a nightmare without the basic loyalty of your people, not matter internal problems within a group.

“Divide and rule” They were too young to understand they sold too cheap the social power the message of The Smiths could deliver. At last it’s the power, not the money. But it takes a life to understand that.

 

[Anonymous]

law is the rationalization of power only when the judge does not rule in favor of the mozza. should he do so the law is an expression of nature and most apt.
its useless to argue with mozbots they are programmed never to contradict or find fault in anything their lord says or does. so much is self evident.

moz and marr found themselves in a quandry. starting out nobody knew them so giving andy and mike to sign up for an endeavor that chances were would end in naught, was not something they had a choice about. they had no money to hire back up musicians. and at that point the 25 percent was really worth nothing.
later on when money started rolling in they found themselves in a quandry. they couldnt fire andy and mike should they decline the cut to 10 percent and if they somehow would have been able to get rid of them without ending the smiths, any decent musician they would have signed up for tours would have demanded fees in excess of the 25 percent.
so the only option was the scam andy and mike.

but all this does not compute into the mozbot mind. the world would explode and the mozbot would be jettosing thru the atmosphere typing on their laptop that the world required exploding because the word refused to quit consuming hamburgers as per lord moz commands. it is what it is.

 

[Anonymous]

ah, rolling out the old 'In a quandary theory'. Interesting. Maybe so, maybe not.

But how does anyone expect Mike to deal with the responsibilities of a equal partnership and a 25 percent share if he can't even see (according to your theory) that he at the time was being 'scammed' ? Or is Mike doing the 'scamming' by waiting years later to concoct the story that he's been 'duped' ?

Without a doubt, Morrissey should have won the case. But, because of the circumstances around the case, it guaranteed that the Smiths will never reform and maybe that is the slap Morrissey needed, no turning back after that. He lost a few million dollars but was really a good thing. He has made up the money, his band ADORES him, and he didn't walk off stage once this year! Someone is whispering in his ear. Thank God!




,

 

[Uncleskinny]

Without a doubt, Morrissey should have won the case. But, because of the circumstances around the case, it guaranteed that the Smiths will never reform and maybe that is the slap Morrissey needed, no turning back after that. He lost a few million dollars but was really a good thing. He has made up the money, his band ADORES him, and he didn't walk off stage once this year! Someone is whispering in his ear. Thank God!




,

He didn't walk off stage once because it was HIS money at stake if he did, not someone else's.

 

[Irregular Regular]

The more I listen to stuff like this, the clearer it becomes that those who don't regard Mike and Andy as an integral part of The Smiths really haven't a clue.
Not a clue.
But don't worry your pretty little heads, carry on regardless...

 

[Irregular Regular]

Barbarism begins at home you know...

 

[Surface]

I agree, integral ! Imagine if Joyce got fed up with the way Marr and M 'treated' him and left the band ?
I wonder what the Smiths would have sounded like if he did? better/ worse ? Whose to say?

Anyways I'm glad Andy and Mike carried on regardless...

Worse, remember the Stone Roses after Squire left and Aziz joined. As Brummie said - the 4 of them made that music, though you struggle with that concept don't you.

Other peoples view on Andy in the Top 40 Bass players of all time poll - "It'd have to Andy Rourke for me, so many cracking bass lines i.e. 'Headmaster Ritual' or 'Barbarism Begins At Home'" - Sean Doyle
It's the weaving bass work on 'There Is A Light' that does it for us Sean but point taken - Andy's a stunning talent whose brilliance was a key part of the Smiths' restless, kinetic energy.
Read more at http://www.nme.com/photos/40-of-the...e-readers/345517#/photo/3#TkCo2gVosfXG0uDU.99

 

[Anonymous]

ah, rolling out the old 'In a quandary theory'. Interesting. Maybe so, maybe not.

But how does anyone expect Mike to deal with the responsibilities of a equal partnership and a 25 percent share if he can't even see (according to your theory) that he at the time was being 'scammed' ? Or is Mike doing the 'scamming' by waiting years later to concoct the story that he's been 'duped' ?

you cant possibly be that dense.
the purpose of a scam is to jip someone of his money without the victim noticing.
its a matter of time before you argue that m and m didnt even want the higher percentage. LOL it was thrust upon them.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Article: "Bulbous salutation in the otherwise festive zone" card

Hey you cheap bully, why do you attack Ketamine Sun? S/he is a sweet person who gives a personal opinion based on the facts she read on the autobigraphy and what Joyce said. S/he seems more informed than you, and has the right to say what s/he wants, all the times s/he likes. If s/he is a blind fan, that's her/his problem. It's 100 times worst to be a blind hater like you.

I am informed of the fact that Morrissey lost the case, in a court of law, with competent representation, more than once. If you have any new information that refutes this please post it. Otherwise quit encouraging this lost soul to think their repeated posts on the matter are in some way valid or relevant. Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Article: "Bulbous salutation in the otherwise festive zone" card

' competent representation' ? Really you must read Autobiography.

'lost soul' ? The only lost soul around here is you.. lost and trying to find your way by following my trail of valid and relevant posts.

Keep reading ,keep seething... Because,you know that I'm right.

What is it that you are "right" about?

And yes, competent representation. Of course Morrissey doesn't think so. He lost and nothing it ever his fault. It's the record company or the lawyers or the press or the music buying public. I tried reading Autobiography. I scrolled through a bit of it and said, "you'll never guess..." If the lawyers were the issue he could have gotten other lawyers, and eventually when he'd used up his money or gone through every lawyer who practices this kind of law he'd have still claimed to be right. He MIGHT even believe he is right, but I'm not sure if he has the sort of mental illness where one is aware of one's lies or not. You don't help him or anyone by continuing to try the case on this message board. Go talk about how the Queen is a Nazi lizard person from outer space. That would be more entertaining and more in your field of expertise, really.

Or answer the question. What are you right about? One devastating undeniable sentence should be enough to reveal the truth, and then you can quit making Mike Joyce fans out of Morrissey fans with your mindless bleating.

 

[Pokey]

I agree, integral ! Imagine if Joyce got fed up with the way Marr and M 'treated' him and left the band ?
I wonder what the Smiths would have sounded like if he did? better/ worse ? Whose to say?

Anyways I'm glad Andy and Mike carried on regardless...

Not doubt Andy and Mike had an impact, to me personally, Andy more so. There's no doubt it would sound different if one or both of them had been replaced but its impossible to say whether it would have been better or worse as alternate reality is impossible to tell there.

 

[Anonymous]

in ketamine convoluted thinking, moz and marr were doing the other a huge favor by taking their rightful share.
m and m taking limos to the gig and studio, while the other two happily hitch hike.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Article: "Bulbous salutation in the otherwise festive zone" card

'What is it that you are "right" about?' ? The question is.. what is it that you think I'm wrong about?

'You don't help him or anyone by continuing to try the case on this message board.' ! Read my posts much ?
I said repeatedly... that my views on Joyce are not going to change the injustice of the verdict. That these are just my opinions and that they don't have to matter to you.

' and then you can quit making Mike Joyce fans out of Morrissey fans with your mindless bleating.' But isn't that what you want ?

' I tried reading Autobiography. I scrolled through a bit of it ' Wait, you didn't read it ? I've read it and I've (yes Benny)have listened to the recent Joyce interview and heard/read bits over the years to form my view of how I feel about the subject. I still have not sided with anyone, that's why I'm here on this thread looking for more information (if any exists) to get closer to something resembling a truth. I guess this is the wrong place.

'Go talk about how the Queen is a Nazi lizard person from outer space.' Sorry,that's more in B.B's department.

I didn't read the bible either. I guess that proves it's the truth. You're "looking for more information" on this thread? Why? http://www.morrissey-solo.com/news/news1296.htm
Start there.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Article: "Bulbous salutation in the otherwise festive zone" card

What is it that you are "right" about?

... One devastating undeniable sentence should be enough to reveal the truth, and then you can quit making Mike Joyce fans out of Morrissey fans with your mindless bleating.

Morrisey makes Joyce fans out of his own fans. If you read his Autobiography you'll understand that. You can admire both but you can't believe both. When Moz changes his opinion about Joyce most fans will follow.