Buffy Saint Marie is a pretendian

In reference to your words above, I would say that she saved herself from her everyday reality by living a fantasy that she "supplied" that has now caught up with her. She wasn't happy being a white woman born in Massachusetts so she created herself in the image of a First Nations' Indian born in Canada that people were apparently too afraid to pull the thread on and to this very day aren't ready to accept. That's the thing with lying, if you do it well people will go along for the ride.

I was never a fan of her music and only heard of her since California Son so I am coming into this completely objectively with no blow to my adoration like some I am seeing. I saw people make excuses for Lance Armstrong when he was found out too which I found completely bizarre.

Regardless of our differing opinions I appreciate the discourse :)
But I would suggest the story isnt as clear cut as the documentary makes out. I suspect the adopted aspect isnt entirely true but rather her mother had an affair with an indiginous person and she was the product of that union. Rather than expose her mother she suggestted she was adopted. She certain appears to have indigenous features. Quite apart from that she has been adopted by the community or atleast a significant family from the community and they support her regardless so it seems your faux outrage is misplaced.
 
The family situation seems more worrying than the identity fabrication. Her brother isn't alive to defend himself & his daughter seems fragile.
 
In reference to your words above, I would say that she saved herself from her everyday reality by living a fantasy that she "supplied" that has now caught up with her.
Yes, and though Buffy is an extreme example, what artist hasn’t done this? I said as much in my other post.
She wasn't happy being a white woman born in Massachusetts so she created herself in the image of a First Nations' Indian born in Canada that people were apparently too afraid to pull the thread on and to this very day aren't ready to accept. That's the thing with lying, if you do it well people will go along for the ride.
Well, according to The Fifth Estate, early on it was her own family that ignored her self reinvention, and yes, out of not understanding/out of fear, let her be.
Later, her audience went ‘along for the ride’ because they simply didn’t know.
I was never a fan of her music and only heard of her since California Son so I am coming into this completely objectively with no blow to my adoration like some I am seeing. I saw people make excuses for Lance Armstrong when he was found out too which I found completely bizarre.
But is it really completely objective? We all have beliefs that influence and shape our judgments. I see it as introducing bias, this interest in, and need to be ‘right’, it’s also really not such a good look. And no, I don’t believe even a judge in court can be totally objective in their conclusions.
Regardless of our differing opinions I appreciate the discourse :)

But do they differ that much? I also agree that what she did was wrong.
And yet, the reinvention of her self, which many artists do to varying degrees, shouldn’t really come as a surprise. As wrong as it may seem, to break away from a past, to empower one’s self to follow your own unique vision, it’s a trade off and a sacrifice. You will inevitably hurt people along the way as you push forward to become the person you need to be. A lot of people look at this as ‘madness’, while others welcome it because it inspires them to see another pursue their ‘authentic’ self against all odds.
Anyway …. it’s her life, to wreck, her own way.




In spite of the ‘evidence’ brought up, and other inconsistencies, Buffy is still claiming
to not know to whom she was born, and claims that it was the mother that raised her
that told her she was adopted.


Another of my favorites …





Little Wheels Spin and Spin Big wheels turn around & around

Merry Christmas Jingle Bells
Christ is born and the devils in hell
hearts they shrink Pockets swell
Everybody know and nobody tell

Little Wheels Spin and Spin Big wheels turn around & around

Oh the sins of Caesars men
cry the pious citizens who petty thieve the 5 & 10s and the big wheels turn around and around

Little Wheels Spin and Spin Big wheels turn around & around

Blame the angels, blame the fates, Blame the Jews or your sister Kate
Teach your children how to hate and the big wheels turn around and around

Little Wheels Spin and Spin Big wheels turn around & around

Turn your back on weeds you’ve hoed
silly sinful seeds you've sowed
Add your straw to the camels load
Pray like hell when your world explode

Little Wheels Spin and Spin Big wheels turn around & around

Swing your girl fiddler say
Later on the piper pay
Do see do, swing and sway
Dead will dance on judgement day

Little Wheels Spin and Spin Big wheels turn around & around

🤍
 
Never mind saying it, I’ll be round tonight to spray-paint it on your house, after I put a brick through your window. Then I’ll set fire to your car and kick down your garden gate.

Look forward to it. What time are you thinking of doing your vandalism? I'll have the kettle on.
 
She chose to disown her own family and join another one. That doesn't make her First Nation. Not once has she submitted to an DNA test to prove her ancestry and now we know why.

Ya gotta wonder why she stopped talkin' to her family.
Somethin' happened that made her feel like she didn't belong.
Yeah, a DNA test would be a solution.
Ya wrong about the First Nation stuff though.
It's their choice to decide who's part of it or not.
 
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Yes, not biologically, but that doesn’t matter to the Piapot First Nation (Cree) family that has adopted her.

I understand how and why people are upset or even angered by this. Below is another point of view that I think you may agree with …





Yeah at first I thought the same ….



Buffy and her brother do look similar.
 
I'm not a morrissey fan, I'm just here to argue about Buffy Sainte-Marie

Since the CBC documentary, there's been a little more reporting, if you look for it. Not vetted or fact checked at national journalism standards. One thing is Facebook scraping, which may have found posts by her son Cody consistent with everything the CBC reported, years before, in his own words, as well as comparing DNA between Cody and Buffy's sister Lainey, proving Cody is related to Lainey by blood and also that Lainey has no indigenous DNA.

It really looks like it's a lock, Buffy acquired her indigenous identity, she picked it up in college. She was born with none. In the apparent words of her son Cody, "It was kind of a gimmick that became a fad that became a formua."

The affair idea has zero evidence, and equally important, zero credibility - it only comes up when the DNA comes in and disproves the "given up by a mother in Craven Saskatchewan to random passing Americans" falls apart.

I can accept that she didn't do world-shaking harm, and may have done more harm than good.

She did, however, take money right out of some indigenous artists' pockets at the same time she sponsored, promoted, helped others.

Like the guy she won the Indigenous Juno award over in 2009, Billie Joe Green. That guy never had it easy, and Buffy didn't help.

Hey, music fans, put this right. Buy Billy Joe Green's stuff. Find and buy other indigenous artists who were sidelined by Buffy's spotlight-grabbing.
 
She chose to disown her own family and join another one. That doesn't make her First Nation. Not once has she submitted to an DNA test to prove her ancestry and now we know why.
If ever I meet you, marred, I hope you'll be identical to your profile picture!!

Did you factor in the CIA and the KKK? She's on files a while for sticking it to the man. The media can be controlled e.g.

I like Buffy a lot. A wholesome sort who's prevailed, and inspired.
 
well youre the one who wont even give them the dignity of being called by an actually relevant name, rather than a completely erroneous name belonging to other peoples who have no relation whatsoever to native americans. the only reason why that name has stuck for so long is because--like you-- nobody cared enough that it didnt represent in any way shape or form the people to whom it was applied. that's as good as a denial of their rightful identity right there.

i used to work with native american artists and if you're invited to their longhouses, their potlucks, their pow wows, you're as good as being a member of their tribe. to them what matters is culture and shared experience, not race.

Is this Buffy stuff a big deal up there in Canada?
Are they talkin' it up?
 
I'm not a morrissey fan, I'm just here to argue about Buffy Sainte-Marie

Since the CBC documentary, there's been a little more reporting, if you look for it. Not vetted or fact checked at national journalism standards. One thing is Facebook scraping, which may have found posts by her son Cody consistent with everything the CBC reported, years before, in his own words, as well as comparing DNA between Cody and Buffy's sister Lainey, proving Cody is related to Lainey by blood and also that Lainey has no indigenous DNA.

It really looks like it's a lock, Buffy acquired her indigenous identity, she picked it up in college. She was born with none. In the apparent words of her son Cody, "It was kind of a gimmick that became a fad that became a formua."

The affair idea has zero evidence, and equally important, zero credibility - it only comes up when the DNA comes in and disproves the "given up by a mother in Craven Saskatchewan to random passing Americans" falls apart.

I can accept that she didn't do world-shaking harm, and may have done more harm than good.

She did, however, take money right out of some indigenous artists' pockets at the same time she sponsored, promoted, helped others.

Like the guy she won the Indigenous Juno award over in 2009, Billie Joe Green. That guy never had it easy, and Buffy didn't help.
informative.
Hey, music fans, put this right. Buy Billy Joe Green's stuff. Find and buy other indigenous artists who were sidelined by Buffy's spotlight-grabbing.



Sorry, but I’ll pass. I guess I just prefer that fake Cree sound.
 
But I would suggest the story isnt as clear cut as the documentary makes out. I suspect the adopted aspect isnt entirely true but rather her mother had an affair with an indiginous person and she was the product of that union. Rather than expose her mother she suggestted she was adopted. She certain appears to have indigenous features. Quite apart from that she has been adopted by the community or atleast a significant family from the community and they support her regardless so it seems your faux outrage is misplaced.
My "outrage" is not faux, nor is it outrage. What have I got to be outraged by? I guess if I was a fan of hers and was invested in her music I'd be outraged, but I'm not a fan of her music. I was just pointing out yet another fraud enabled by true believers who can't accept the truth that this woman has made a career about lying about her heritage. You're doing exactly what she did by lying to yourself.

What the hell are indigenous features? She has a big nose and a tan and that makes her Cree? Being adopted by the community doesn't mean anything either. My grandmother was Maori and she adopted ten kids from broken homes while having ten kids of her own. Does that make the ten adopted kids Maori? I had a girlfriend with long dark hair and dark skin that was obsessed with native American Indians and if she was insane she could've easily fooled anyone into thinking she was Native American and some thought she was, but she was Czech.

If she was honest from the start and said outright that she loves the culture and identifies with First Nations' people and wants to contribute to their culture as a folk singer then that'd be honourable but that wasn't enough for her was it? She wanted the attention and had to go one step further and commit identity theft that comes with many accolades and rewards that would've gone to actual deserving First Nations' people.

Show us the evidence and the DNA test that proves she is Cree and I'll eat crow. Until then, it's a no.
 
Is this Buffy stuff a big deal up there in Canada?
Are they talkin' it up?
no, wild T, nobody gives a shit! first nations arent woke enough to realize that they should be offended on principle by something that has no negative effect on them whatsoever, but maybe if enough people who arent them condescend to explain to them whey they should be outraged and offended they might catch on.

by the way, wild T, i dont want to cast aspersions but ive heard it said you're a pretenditurkian! whats that about, wild T?! o_O
 
Another very eye opening conversation about pretendians I watched a few months ago before the Buffy news came to light.

 
My "outrage" is not faux, nor is it outrage. What have I got to be outraged by? I guess if I was a fan of hers and was invested in her music I'd be outraged, but I'm not a fan of her music. I was just pointing out yet another fraud enabled by true believers who can't accept the truth that this woman has made a career about lying about her heritage. You're doing exactly what she did by lying to yourself.


Wait. How could fans/people be enablers if they don’t know the person is a fraud? You used the words ‘made a career’ so I assume you’re saying this enabling was happening over a long period of time.

Edit: The only enablers I can think of is maybe some people in the record industry that knew, but also knew that it sold records and so they went along with it. But we don’t even know if that’s the case.



 
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My "outrage" is not faux, nor is it outrage. What have I got to be outraged by? I guess if I was a fan of hers and was invested in her music I'd be outraged, but I'm not a fan of her music. I was just pointing out yet another fraud enabled by true believers who can't accept the truth that this woman has made a career about lying about her heritage. You're doing exactly what she did by lying to yourself.

What the hell are indigenous features? She has a big nose and a tan and that makes her Cree? Being adopted by the community doesn't mean anything either. My grandmother was Maori and she adopted ten kids from broken homes while having ten kids of her own. Does that make the ten adopted kids Maori? I had a girlfriend with long dark hair and dark skin that was obsessed with native American Indians and if she was insane she could've easily fooled anyone into thinking she was Native American and some thought she was, but she was Czech.

If she was honest from the start and said outright that she loves the culture and identifies with First Nations' people and wants to contribute to their culture as a folk singer then that'd be honourable but that wasn't enough for her was it? She wanted the attention and had to go one step further and commit identity theft that comes with many accolades and rewards that would've gone to actual deserving First Nations' people.

Show us the evidence and the DNA test that proves she is Cree and I'll eat crow. Until then, it's a no.
Quite. What do you have to be outraged for? and yet..."She is some nasty piece of work alright. Unf***ingbelieveable!" here we are. Is it normal to demand someones DNA? Is there only one pot of money or one spot available for a female indigenous folk singer? Didn't Johnny Cash claim something similar at one point?

According to her statement (above) her £growing up" mother told her that she was adopted and that her birth parents were native.
However it seems later her "growing up" mothers story changed and there is a suggestion that she was in fact born to her "growing up" mother but "on the wrong side of the blanket" meaning out of wedlock or through an adulterous relationship. To me that explains the matter fully. Her skin tone is different from her other family members. This was originally explained to her by the adoption but later the truth emerged. A truth that was not hers to share. She wasn't adopted, in fact she has a birth certificate however the father's name showing on that document is incorrect. Her father was native, although she never knew him. Why must she explain any further?
This documentary was an ugly take down. Magic is alive God is afoot.
 
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Quite. What do you have to be outraged for? and yet..."She is some nasty piece of work alright. Unf***ingbelieveable!" here we are. Is it normal to demand someones DNA? Is there only one pot of money or one spot available for a female indigenous folk singer? Didn't Johnny Cash claim something similar at one point?

According to her statement (above) her £growing up" mother told her that she was adopted and that her birth parents were native.
However it seems later her "growing up" mothers story changed and there is a suggestion that she was in fact born to her "growing up" mother but "on the wrong side of the blanket" meaning out of wedlock or through an adulterous relationship. To me that explains the matter fully. Her skin tone is different from her other family members. This was originally explained to her by the adoption but later the truth emerged. A truth that was not hers to share. She wasn't adopted, in fact she has a birth certificate however the father's name showing on that document is incorrect. Her father was native, although she never knew him. Why must she explain any further?
This documentary was an ugly take down. Magic is alive God is afoot.
She's been caught and so too everyone who believed her bullshit has been caught out too. It's awkward and embarrassing. I get it. Trying to convince you of her bad behaviour is like trying to convince Buffy she's a white woman born in Massachusetts. Deep down she knows but the easiest person to fool is one's self and her job is done and she did it very well and I might add she couldn't have done without people of the likes of you.
 
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Wait. How could fans/people be enablers if they don’t know the person is a fraud? You used the words ‘made a career’ so I assume you’re saying this enabling was happening over a long period of time.

Edit: The only enablers I can think of is maybe some people in the record industry that knew, but also knew that it sold records and so they went along with it. But we don’t even know if that’s the case.
People have known this for decades but as you know it's not a popular activity to question the validity of native heritage. Much like the Harvey Weinstein case. A lot of people knew and were afraid to talk and liked their well paid jobs too much to speak up. There are a lot of benefits to keeping the lies alive.

Did you watch any of the interview with Peter Boghosian? This is not just about Buffy Saint Marie. It's about the hundreds of people claiming native hertitge under false pretences.
 
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