Brexit

[Anonymous]

Dear record company I represent Steven the former lead singer with 80s iconic Manchester band The Smiths
Never has there been a better time to re-release panic on the streets of London, why on earth are you releasing manufactured pop by Ed Shearon ? He's not fit to kiss Steven's bum cleavage.
The country is crying out for Brexpop.

Boz Johnson

BtBB


Dislike / Troll / Die you bastard

T Rex, Smith Mashup Panic.


Panic with naked bare chest

 

[AztecCamera]

Anonymous:

I don't post for your pleasure. I post for my friends who would never post on a website forum, but they do read my content. The real fans that see Morrissey every day at The Sunset Marquis having lunch, at Amalfi having dinner, buying the latest Louis Vuitton shirt at the Beverly Center, at a Patti Smith concert at the Wiltern, having an Orange Julius at the Glendale Galleria with lil' Sammy, buying Incense Avignon at the cologne store on Rodeo, buying KerryGold at that cheese shop in Calabasas (before he went vegan), well I can go on, don't post on websites and try to live vicariously through this website praying every day that Morrissey will come to "their town".

 

[countthree]

Anonymous:

I don't post for your pleasure. I post for my friends who would never post on a website forum, but they do read my content. The real fans that see Morrissey every day at The Sunset Marquis having lunch, at Amalfi having dinner, buying the latest Louis Vuitton shirt at the Beverly Center, at a Patti Smith concert at the Wiltern, having an Orange Julius at the Glendale Galleria with lil' Sammy, buying Incense Avignon at the cologne store on Rodeo, buying KerryGold at that cheese shop in Calabasas (before he went vegan), well I can go on, don't post on websites and try to live vicariously through this website praying every day that Morrissey will come to "their town".

You post for your ego, and that is a reason as good as another reason.

 

[matchboxboy]

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten … the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession … broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” … why? why not the formal ones straight away? … he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

As much as you leave voters might hate it, this is looking the most likely option. Especially considering Boris admitted he didn't want to leave. The only way I see us leaving the EU is if the Union forces us out, which they might be pissed now but they need us for economic reasons (and we need them). I'm much more relaxed about this now. I don't actually see a way we can leave the EU because it would f*** everything so mightily that not even Boris would do it.

 

[BrummieBoy]

Anonymous:

I don't post for your pleasure. I post for my friends who would never post on a website forum, but they do read my content. The real fans that see Morrissey every day at The Sunset Marquis having lunch, at Amalfi having dinner, buying the latest Louis Vuitton shirt at the Beverly Center, at a Patti Smith concert at the Wiltern, having an Orange Julius at the Glendale Galleria with lil' Sammy, buying Incense Avignon at the cologne store on Rodeo, buying KerryGold at that cheese shop in Calabasas (before he went vegan), well I can go on, don't post on websites and try to live vicariously through this website praying every day that Morrissey will come to "their town".

I think you're one of the best writers on this site.

Sincerely yours

BrummieBoy

 

[malvachat]

As much as you leave voters might hate it, this is looking the most likely option.

I have no way of knowing your nationality.But if you honestly think a British government would dare to ignore the result you don't know the British very well.
All these different scenarios are just talk by the media.
It just can not happen.
Taking time before invoking release is just a time thing.
Deals have to be stuck behind the scenes before we move forward.
Civil servants have been in discussion with European counter parts for months.
As for the "turmoil"in the markets that will all settle down.
We've had all this before at least four times while in the EU.
It's just paper values that in two or three years will all be back to normal.
As I said a week or so ago all the threats were just that.
I'm more certain I voted the right way more each day.
Keep calm and carry on.
Watch and learn.
This is the main reason I voted out and are glad I did.

 

[Cornflakes]

As much as you leave voters might hate it, this is looking the most likely option. Especially considering Boris admitted he didn't want to leave. The only way I see us leaving the EU is if the Union forces us out, which they might be pissed now but they need us for economic reasons (and we need them). I'm much more relaxed about this now. I don't actually see a way we can leave the EU because it would f*** everything so mightily that not even Boris would do it.

I agree it's not so easy to see a future Prime Minister actually pushing the red button, but I think there's a major problem with the scenario. Can the EU live with the permanent instability of leaving the EU being a potential outcome of every UK General Election from now until Domesday? Can we, for that matter? They'd also be running the very strong risk that we'd start threatening to use it every time Tory banchbenchers were up in arms about something. Sorry if it un-releaxes you, but I really think they might just kick us out if we chose to go down that path.

There's an alternative where we decide the whole thing over again with a second referendum on a draft deal. That would probably be the best outcome from our point of view, given that any other realistic option would be dire, but it would need the other 27 countries to play ball, and they're not doing so far.

 

[Anonymous]

I have no way of knowing your nationality.But if you honestly think a British government would dare to ignore the result you don't know the British very well.
All these different scenarios are just talk by the media.
It just can not happen.
Taking time before invoking release is just a time thing.
Deals have to be stuck behind the scenes before we move forward.
Civil servants have been in discussion with European counter parts for months.
As for the "turmoil"in the markets that will all settle down.
We've had all this before at least four times while in the EU.
It's just paper values that in two or three years will all be back to normal.
As I said a week or so ago all the threats were just that.
I'm more certain I voted the right way more each day.
Keep calm and carry on.
Watch and learn.
This is the main reason I voted out and are glad I did.

I agree that markets will adjust. At least here we had priced in a remain vote and that'll take time to work out but it'll rebound. We're not even negative for the year yet and I expect a rebound at some point. I think matchbox is also right when he says the e.u and Britain both need each other in terms of trade and for this reason will come to acceptable terms. The wealthy stand to loose money with this move perhaps but they stand to loose more the longer its drug out and for this reason they'll come to an agreement sooner or later. The political class also needs time to move in a way that makes them look the best possible. I think some of them are missing opportunities to go down in history as the politicians who successfully pulled Britain out of the e.u. The momentums on there side

 

[Anonymous]

I agree it's not so easy to see a future Prime Minister actually pushing the red button, but I think there's a major problem with the scenario. Can the EU live with the permanent instability of leaving the EU being a potential outcome of every UK General Election from now until Domesday? Can we, for that matter? They'd also be running the very strong risk that we'd start threatening to use it every time Tory banchbenchers were up in arms about something. Sorry if it un-releaxes you, but I really think they might just kick us out if we chose to go down that path.

There's an alternative where we decide the whole thing over again with a second referendum on a draft deal. That would probably be the best outcome from our point of view, given that any other realistic option would be dire, but it would need the other 27 countries to play ball, and they're not doing so far.

I can't see a second referendum happening though who knows. If that does happen politicians run the risk of every being labeled deniers of democracy and pissing off a lot of there constiuants.mthey also run the risk of every future referendum that's close to happen twice without people shouting that the process is unfair. I think the people who lost just need to accept that they lost. That's part of democracy. If they change it to need a majority of sixty percent will that be true for the remain side as well. If not it'll be decried as unfair advantage and if it is included that the remain side will need a sixty percent majority then it'll just be endless referendums creating perpetual uncertainty which will kill stock markets

 

[malvachat]

The most interesting thing to me that's come out of all of it is this.
All the mainstream party's got a kicking from half of the 72% people that voted.
Despite everything and the kitchen sink being thrown at them.
Now as it's very rare that the voter turn out is so high,it just shows how out of touch they really are.
I know this myself because off all the doorstepping I have done over the years.
Lots and lots of politicians have lost touch with the people.

 

[Anonymous]

The most interesting thing to me that's come out of all of it is this.
All the mainstream party's got a kicking from half of the 72% people that voted.
Despite everything and the kitchen sink being thrown at them.
Now as it's very rare that the voter turn out is so high,it just shows how out of touch they really are.
I know this myself because off all the doorstepping I have done over the years.
Lots and lots of politicians have lost touch with the people.

Agree. The fact that everyone involved was so surprised is a big deal and one they should pay a lot of attention to

 

[countthree]

If Cameron proposed the referendum he should respect people's decision and trigger the exit now. He is submitting UK and EU to an unnecessary three months' limbo. Even more, he should stay and face all the negative consequences that will emerge during the first times. Why would he leave? Isn't he able to cope with people's decisions? The man is acting in the worst possible way. He is not a true leader, he is a quitter. Why did he aspire to be PM if he can't tolerate the responsibility of that position? It seems he doesn't understand he is there as a representative of people's will, not to do what best suits him. After the exit, Cameron limbo is the worst decision coming from UK. The exit is utterly justified by democracy, but Cameron's limbo... why?

 

[Anonymous]

If Cameron proposed the referendum he should respect people's decision and trigger the exit now. He is submitting UK and EU to an unnecessary three months' limbo. Even more, he should stay and face all the negative consequences that will emerge during the first times. Why would he leave? Isn't he able to cope with people's decisions? The man is acting in the worst possible way. He is not a true leader, he is a quitter. Why did he aspire to be PM if he can't tolerate the responsibility of that position? It seems he doesn't understand he is there as a representative of people's will, not to do what best suits him. After the exit, Cameron limbo is the worst decision coming from UK. The exit is utterly justified by democracy, but Cameron's limbo... why?

Pressure from is own party for one

 

[Kewpie]

If Cameron proposed the referendum he should respect people's decision and trigger the exit now. He is submitting UK and EU to an unnecessary three months' limbo. Even more, he should stay and face all the negative consequences that will emerge during the first times. Why would he leave? Isn't he able to cope with people's decisions? The man is acting in the worst possible way. He is not a true leader, he is a quitter. Why did he aspire to be PM if he can't tolerate the responsibility of that position? It seems he doesn't understand he is there as a representative of people's will, not to do what best suits him. After the exit, Cameron limbo is the worst decision coming from UK. The exit is utterly justified by democracy, but Cameron's limbo... why?

The difference is only 4 % which is not a clear majority.
Because of that, some people are demanding the second referendum.

Many young voters do not want to leave and really worry about the future.

Cameron is really irresponsible to promise a referendum in the first place.

 

[Cornflakes]

The most interesting thing to me that's come out of all of it is this.
All the mainstream party's got a kicking from half of the 72% people that voted.
Despite everything and the kitchen sink being thrown at them.
Now as it's very rare that the voter turn out is so high,it just shows how out of touch they really are.
I know this myself because off all the doorstepping I have done over the years.
Lots and lots of politicians have lost touch with the people.

FWIW, this isn't completely wrong. But I think a much bigger worry is such a large proportion of the people having lost touch with reality. That they, along with the rest of us, have a dose of it coming our way is the only silver lining I can see in all this.

I guess the two things might be seen as two sides of the same coin, though.

I can't see a second referendum happening though who knows. If that does happen politicians run the risk of every being labeled deniers of democracy and pissing off a lot of there constiuants.

I think that depends a lot on how people feel about things in however many months' time we're hypothetically talking about. Staunch leavers would be bound to complain. But remainers will say that we were only offered half a question in the referendum we've just have. I think it's hard to deny that's a fair point, at least.

If they change it to need a majority of sixty percent will that be true for the remain side as well. If not it'll be decried as unfair advantage and if it is included that the remain side will need a sixty percent majority then it'll just be endless referendums creating perpetual uncertainty which will kill stock markets

I don't think there's any possibility of a new referendum which is just the old one with the goalposts shifted. It would have to be on the terms of a post-EU agreement, if we can get a draft of one without pulling the trigger on Article 50. Still with a 50% threshold.

 

[countthree]

Pressure from is own party for one

Political pressure against the decision and wellness of people? He is a crook. Those people don't believe in democracy. It is good only when it suits their interest. And nobody cares. Media is protecting him, they should be exposing his treachery to people's vote.

 

[Anonymous]

FWIW, this isn't completely wrong. But I think a much bigger worry is such a large proportion of the people having lost touch with reality. That they, along with the rest of us, have a dose of it coming our way is the only silver lining I can see in all this.

I guess the two things might be seen as two sides of the same coin, though.



I think that depends a lot on how people feel about things in however many months' time we're hypothetically talking about. Staunch leavers would be bound to complain. But remainers will say that we were only offered half a question in the referendum we've just have. I think it's hard to deny that's a fair point, at least.



I don't think there's any possibility of a new referendum which is just the old one with the goalposts shifted. It would have to be on the terms of a post-EU agreement, if we can get a draft of one without pulling the trigger on Article 50. Still with a 50% threshold.

What half a question. The question seems pretty clear and whole. They're should leave because a majority no matter how slim voted that way. You can't have a real post Eu agreement until you actually leave the e.u. If that's what you mean about the second referendum. Do you mean should we leave the e.u if we can do it in such a way. What you're saying doesn't seem clear to me. They participators in the post e.u agreement wouldn't be acting in good faith until it was a reality and could easily skew the proposed agreement in order to influence the vote

 

[matchboxboy]

The difference is only 4 % which is not a clear majority.
Because of that, some people are demanding the second referendum.

Many young voters do not want to leave and really worry about the future.

Cameron is really irresponsible to promise a referendum in the first place.

Farage said that 48-52 would be "close enough" that he'd demand a second referendum. Of course he's been really quiet about that since he's won.

It's an advisory Referendum that Boris (and others) only supported to undermine Cameron. Boris even said his plan was to get the leadership then broker a deal with the EU and he's pissed off that he's not being allowed to do that. Boris' Dad said he thought he could play both sides and come out a hero. Stupid Boris. I agree that Cameron was an idiot to do this. On this weeks Dead Ringers they had him doing his retirement speech and calling himself "one of the great arses of history" and saying "the only reason I agreed to such a referendum was that I didn't think I could lose - which is exactly the sort of entitled arrogant bellend I am"

It's also Cameron's fault Corbyn didn't do anything. He thought Corbyn's prior anti-EU stance would damage the remain campaign, so he told him to "take a quiet approach". Well done Dave

I have no way of knowing your nationality.But if you honestly think a British government would dare to ignore the result you don't know the British very well.

How dare they ignore an entirely advisory referendum? Gee, I don't know how they'd dare The Scottish, Welsh and Irish independence referendums were very clear in their wording about what would happen if the vote was "Yes", this referendum was very specifically advisory, and many commentators (on both sides of the debate) think that was deliberate because no-one in power wants to actually leave, and it was more about getting Cameron out of number 10. I still think the only way we leave is if Europe makes us.

Given that many polls have said that up to 20% of leave voters regret their vote, I actually don't think it'll be that much of a problem, outside of the usual immigration-is-bad strongholds (Stoke, etc). Since this vote I've seen people shout at "foreigners" on the bus, I've seen a polish girl get slapped and told to go home. I've seen England-shirted racists drag a black woman out of a pub. If that's who you side with, then I guess that's your decision but from my angle, I don't see how it can possibly be the right decision.

I agree it's not so easy to see a future Prime Minister actually pushing the red button, but I think there's a major problem with the scenario. Can the EU live with the permanent instability of leaving the EU being a potential outcome of every UK General Election from now until Domesday? Can we, for that matter? They'd also be running the very strong risk that we'd start threatening to use it every time Tory banchbenchers were up in arms about something. Sorry if it un-releaxes you, but I really think they might just kick us out if we chose to go down that path.

There's an alternative where we decide the whole thing over again with a second referendum on a draft deal. That would probably be the best outcome from our point of view, given that any other realistic option would be dire, but it would need the other 27 countries to play ball, and they're not doing so far.

Yeah, I do think the only risk is that they'd kick us out - especially because if we go, France becomes a lot more powerful trade-wise, so obviously they want us gone. I honestly don't see how we can leave though. Just for things like Wales - the funding from Europe is the only reason Wales isn't in massive poverty right now. They pay something like £600 per welsh child to keep them above the water (which is why Wales was stupid to vote Leave). The arts are gonna suffer greatly. University fees will go massively up and return to being for the rich. The NHS will suffer. I just don't see how leaving is possible.

I can't see a second referendum happening though who knows. If that does happen politicians run the risk of every being labeled deniers of democracy and pissing off a lot of there constituents. They also run the risk of every future referendum that's close to happen twice without people shouting that the process is unfair. I think the people who lost just need to accept that they lost. That's part of democracy. If they change it to need a majority of sixty percent will that be true for the remain side as well. If not it'll be decried as unfair advantage and if it is included that the remain side will need a sixty percent majority then it'll just be endless referendums creating perpetual uncertainty which will kill stock markets

The referendum was advisory. Nothing about the result is binding to anyone, so no one is denying "democracy". Elsewhere in the world (which is laughing at us, by the way) this is being used as an example of The Tyranny of the Majority (wiki link) which is interesting, to say the least. Farage himself said that if the result was 48-52 (and it was actually 51/49, if you look at the most recent estimates), he'd ask for another referendum. He of course assumed he'd get the 48% but still, I think it's a valid point. Major decision like this in most countries require a two thirds majority. The idea that we'd leave Europe, given the voter regret, the fact the majority of the young electorate doesn't want it (and that young Electorate will be very important very soon) and that even Leave voters in this thread fail to comprehend just how much damage this will do. The markets will fix themselves at some point, but Sterling will not.

My thoughts on this as of now: the whole thing was really a stupid Tory-boy fight and our entire future was gambled on an ex-Etonian power-struggle. We were all used as pawns in a fight that we had no right being in, and I don't think Gove or Boris will enact Article 50. The only kink is that the EU liked Cameron a lot, they don't like Boris and Gove (they really don't like Boris) and given that, they may say "no you have to go".

Also: the EU just made it clear that we won't get Single Market Access without following the Four Freedoms and our credit rating just got downgraded

 

[countthree]

The difference is only 4 % which is not a clear majority.
Because of that, some people are demanding the second referendum.

Many young voters do not want to leave and really worry about the future.

Cameron is really irresponsible to promise a referendum in the first place.

Cameron was irresponsible for people who desired to stay, but on the other hand he unwillingly gave voice to those who wanted to leave.

4% is a clear simple majority under decimal system's parameters. Since there wasn't a referendum to enter the EU as it is formed now, this is the only true manifestation of people about this topic. And it was clearly negative.

Young voters must accept a democratical decision. Or raise three dragons.

Big media is showing UK's people as morons who didn't know what they voted. That's very unfair for common people. And a dangerous sign of the intention to twist the decision of the majority under aristocratical arguments.

It would be better for the world if UK stays in EU, but most English people don't accept it and don't believe in it. Now that's crystal clear for everybody, so Cameron must act democratically as people ordered. If you don't want to know, don't ask.

 

[Anonymous]

Farage said that 48-52 would be "close enough" that he'd demand a second referendum. Of course he's been really quiet about that since he's won.

It's an advisory Referendum that Boris (and others) only supported to undermine Cameron. Boris even said his plan was to get the leadership then broker a deal with the EU and he's pissed off that he's not being allowed to do that. Boris' Dad said he thought he could play both sides and come out a hero. Stupid Boris. I agree that Cameron was an idiot to do this. On this weeks Dead Ringers they had him doing his retirement speech and calling himself "one of the great arses of history" and saying "the only reason I agreed to such a referendum was that I didn't think I could lose - which is exactly the sort of entitled arrogant bellend I am"

It's also Cameron's fault Corbyn didn't do anything. He thought Corbyn's prior anti-EU stance would damage the remain campaign, so he told him to "take a quiet approach". Well done Dave


How dare they ignore an entirely advisory referendum? Gee, I don't know how they'd dare The Scottish, Welsh and Irish independence referendums were very clear in their wording about what would happen if the vote was "Yes", this referendum was very specifically advisory, and many commentators (on both sides of the debate) think that was deliberate because no-one in power wants to actually leave, and it was more about getting Cameron out of number 10. I still think the only way we leave is if Europe makes us.

Given that many polls have said that up to 20% of leave voters regret their vote, I actually don't think it'll be that much of a problem, outside of the usual immigration-is-bad strongholds (Stoke, etc). Since this vote I've seen people shout at "foreigners" on the bus, I've seen a polish girl get slapped and told to go home. I've seen England-shirted racists drag a black woman out of a pub. If that's who you side with, then I guess that's your decision but from my angle, I don't see how it can possibly be the right decision.



Yeah, I do think the only risk is that they'd kick us out - especially because if we go, France becomes a lot more powerful trade-wise, so obviously they want us gone. I honestly don't see how we can leave though. Just for things like Wales - the funding from Europe is the only reason Wales isn't in massive poverty right now. They pay something like £600 per welsh child to keep them above the water (which is why Wales was stupid to vote Leave). The arts are gonna suffer greatly. University fees will go massively up and return to being for the rich. The NHS will suffer. I just don't see how leaving is possible.



The referendum was advisory. Nothing about the result is binding to anyone, so no one is denying "democracy". Elsewhere in the world (which is laughing at us, by the way) this is being used as an example of The Tyranny of the Majority (wiki link) which is interesting, to say the least. Farage himself said that if the result was 48-52 (and it was actually 51/49, if you look at the most recent estimates), he'd ask for another referendum. He of course assumed he'd get the 48% but still, I think it's a valid point. Major decision like this in most countries require a two thirds majority. The idea that we'd leave Europe, given the voter regret, the fact the majority of the young electorate doesn't want it (and that young Electorate will be very important very soon) and that even Leave voters in this thread fail to comprehend just how much damage this will do. The markets will fix themselves at some point, but Sterling will not.

My thoughts on this as of now: the whole thing was really a stupid Tory-boy fight and our entire future was gambled on an ex-Etonian power-struggle. We were all used as pawns in a fight that we had no right being in, and I don't think Gove or Boris will enact Article 50. The only kink is that the EU liked Cameron a lot, they don't like Boris and Gove (they really don't like Boris) and given that, they may say "no you have to go".

Also: the EU just made it clear that we won't get Single Market Access without following the Four Freedoms and our credit rating just got downgraded

Advisory or not it's still a clear representation of what people want and I imagine that people want the representatives to follow the majority's will. They would cripple themselves as a political party if they didn't. As to polls, didn't polls and the bookies all say that remain would win.mif polls meant anything they'd elect there representatives by polls and not bother with silly things like votes and elections. Sterling will also recover as long as the u.k makes a good trade deal with the e.u which I believe they will. It'll just take a moment