Bona Drag – Perhaps Morrissey’s Best ‘Album’?

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Anonymous

Guest
The Black Box/Ride on Time thing sort of makes sense in that we know he's a fan of powerful vocalists (eg Kristeen Young). Apparently he lost interest when he found out it was just a sample nicked from another record.
 

Flibberty

Well-Known Member
Take Suedehead and Sunday of the track list, replace them with one or two other tracks, and Bona Drag is no longer a compilation album, but a stand alone album with a lot of singles taken from it, and as such is this not Morrisseys best album ever?
It would still be a compilation album because it was recorded over such a long period with so many different collaborators.

And if you take 'Suedehead' and 'Everyday is Like Sunday' off the album, then you are massively weakening it. 'At Amber' and 'The Girl Least Likely To' are pretty substandard for example.
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
The Black Box/Ride on Time thing sort of makes sense in that we know he's a fan of powerful vocalists (eg Kristeen Young). Apparently he lost interest when he found out it was just a sample nicked from another record.
I'm sure he might of liked the original.
Loleatta got a raw deal and deserves a bit of recognition.
Regards,
FWD.
 

Irregular Regular

Forget my fate.
It would still be a compilation album because it was recorded over such a long period with so many different collaborators.

And if you take 'Suedehead' and 'Everyday is Like Sunday' off the album, then you are massively weakening it. 'At Amber' and 'The Girl Least Likely To' are pretty substandard for example.
A great example of why I often say this is all highly subjective, Girl Least Likely To is one of my favourite Morrissey songs.
 

Orson Swells

Well-Known Member
I wish he would have left "Suedehead" and "Everyday Is Like Sunday" off Bona Drag in favor of "Girl Least Likely To" and "At Amber." There still would have been room to pip in either "I Know Very Well How I Got My Name" or "Michael's Bones," too, for 15 tracks total.
"Sister, I'm A Poet" was another notable omission. It completely baffled me at the time of release that it was left off along with "I Know Very Well..." in particular. "Girl Least Likely To" and "Michael's Bones" are also more than good enough to have made the cut. As it stands, it doesn't feel or sound like an album proper to me; the sequencing is not quite right, and "Suedehead" and "Everyday" have never felt like they belonged on there. It's a highly enjoyable listen but not a coherent album for me...
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I never really cared for suedehead but Sunday is of course fantastic. Either way I always skip them on album as they don't feel right included but to me that's because the other tracks do feel cohesive. Girl least likely to most reminds me of the smiths musically with its rhythm and even his lyrics are sorta reminiscent
 

Flibberty

Well-Known Member
Each to their own, but musically Girl Least Likely To was a big step down from most of Stephen Street's work imo. Andy Rourke did a fine job on Yes, I am Blind, but this one and Get Off the Stage exposed his limitations as a collaborator.
 

Irregular Regular

Forget my fate.
Each to their own, but musically Girl Least Likely To was a big step down from most of Stephen Street's work imo. Andy Rourke did a fine job on Yes, I am Blind, but this one and Get Off the Stage exposed his limitations as a collaborator.
Girl Least Likely To is not the best way to measure Andy's ability as a collaborator, not much of it is his...

 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><><>
Girl Least Likely To is not the best way to measure Andy's ability as a collaborator, not much of it is his...

I wonder if M made the suggestion to Andy to use that bass melody, not to imply that Andy couldn't have seen the originals potential, though M has been known to make suggestions to direct what feeling he needs for words that he has written, etc. Anyways I'm so glad that pinch was done for what M has done with it is really such a wonderful heavy brooding song. And was delighted when he performed it live,even if he shortened it during the Arsenal tour.

Though I wouldn't judge a players collaborating skills based on their work with M, for M picks what works for him, so we don't get to hear the instrumentals that he for whatever reason has passed on, they could have been good songs too, we'll never know.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Girl Least Likely To is not the best way to measure Andy's ability as a collaborator, not much of it is his...

Have you ever heard the Buffy Sainte-Marie album Illuminations? It's a great album in it's own right and highly recommended, but also interesting because of two of the song titles, "Better To Find Out For Yourself" and "Suffer The Little Children". Inspiration for Moz perhaps.
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
Have you ever heard the Buffy Sainte-Marie album Illuminations? It's a great album in it's own right and highly recommended, but also interesting because of two of the song titles, "Better To Find Out For Yourself" and "Suffer The Little Children". Inspiration for Moz perhaps.
That is really interesting, I had no idea. Along the same lines of TIALTNGO being 'inspired' by New York Doll's Lonely Planet Boy...

"Oh, you pick me up
You're out and drivin' in your car
When I tell you where I'm goin'
Always tellin' me it's to far
But how could you be drivin'
Down by my home
When ya know, I ain't got one
And I'm, I'm so all alone"

...and of course, Joni Mitchell's The Silky Veils Of Ardor, which, err, inspired Seasick Yet Still Docked...

"I am a poor wayfaring stranger
Traveling through all these highs and lows...
...
I wish I had the wings
Of Noah's pretty little white dove
So I could fly this raging river
To reach the one I love
But I have no wings"
 
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Anonymous

Guest
That is really interesting, I had no idea. Along the same lines of TIALTNGO being 'inspired' by New York Doll's Lonely Planet Boy...

"Oh, you pick me up
You're out and drivin' in your car
When I tell you where I'm goin'
Always tellin' me it's to far
But how could you be drivin'
Down by my home
When ya know, I ain't got one
And I'm, I'm so all alone"

...and of course, Joni Mitchell's The Silky Veils Of Ardor, which, err, inspired Seasick Yet Still Docked...

"I am a poor wayfaring stranger
Traveling through all these highs and lows...
...
I wish I had the wings
Of Noah's pretty little white dove
So I could fly this raging river
To reach the one I love
But I have no wings"
Never knew these two. Moz is really in the folk music tradition of building off other songs. He kind of put his own twist on it. It reminds me of how Bob Dylan has so many lyrics that are taken from the old traditional songs or blues or Woody Guthrie. Funny to, because Moz and Bob are often cited as two of the greatest lyricists of all time.
 

Orson Swells

Well-Known Member
I wonder if M made the suggestion to Andy to use that bass melody, not to imply that Andy couldn't have seen the originals potential, though M has been known to make suggestions to direct what feeling he needs for words that he has written, etc.
I think exactly this may have been happening around this time. "Yes, I Am Blind" is supposedly based on Gilbert O'Sullivan's "Nothing Rhymed", "Such A Little Thing..." on “Never Turn Your Back on Mother Earth" by Sparks, and "At Amber" always reminds me of "Always Crashing In The Same Car". Then later on we have "Ride A White Swan" rewritten as "Certain People I Know" and, of course, Marr wasn't adverse to this kind of thing with "Panic"/"Metal Guru". There are probably lots of other examples. I have often wondered if it was Moz himself who initially suggested the original tracks as "inspiration" for those songs.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I think exactly this may have been happening around this time. "Yes, I Am Blind" is supposedly based on Gilbert O'Sullivan's "Nothing Rhymed", "Such A Little Thing..." on “Never Turn Your Back on Mother Earth" by Sparks, and "At Amber" always reminds me of "Always Crashing In The Same Car". Then later on we have "Ride A White Swan" rewritten as "Certain People I Know" and, of course, Marr wasn't adverse to this kind of thing with "Panic"/"Metal Guru". There are probably lots of other examples. I have often wondered if it was Moz himself who initially suggested the original tracks as "inspiration" for those songs.
I wouldn't be surprised. If true it might explain somewhat how even though he's had many collaborators a lot of his music still feels similar and like a cohesive collection. Judging from marrs cilia black comments this might have been true in there time as well
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
I think exactly this may have been happening around this time. "Yes, I Am Blind" is supposedly based on Gilbert O'Sullivan's "Nothing Rhymed", "Such A Little Thing..." on “Never Turn Your Back on Mother Earth" by Sparks, and "At Amber" always reminds me of "Always Crashing In The Same Car". Then later on we have "Ride A White Swan" rewritten as "Certain People I Know" and, of course, Marr wasn't adverse to this kind of thing with "Panic"/"Metal Guru". There are probably lots of other examples. I have often wondered if it was Moz himself who initially suggested the original tracks as "inspiration" for those songs.
Also of course, The Cookies' Only To Other People - ransacked 100% for "The Girl Least Likely To"

 
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Anonymous

Guest
...and then there's this song, which Morrissey and Marr pilfered for 'A Rush and a Push and the Land is Ours':
 

Flibberty

Well-Known Member
Girl Least Likely To is not the best way to measure Andy's ability as a collaborator, not much of it is his...
Indeed but that was maybe part of the problem. Johnny was capable of building on the songs that he was inspired by and turning them into something much more. Andy's limitations were pretty clear.
 

Irregular Regular

Forget my fate.
Indeed but that was maybe part of the problem. Johnny was capable of building on the songs that he was inspired by and turning them into something much more. Andy's limitations were pretty clear.
Well I like Andy and I like Mike too, I rate them both very highly.
Two out of four significant people in my all time favourite band.
No amount of legal disputes or unjustified criticism aimed at them will change my views on this.

The everlasting greatness of The Smiths is due to Morrissey & Marr & Rourke & Joyce (not equally obviously).
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Indeed but that was maybe part of the problem. Johnny was capable of building on the songs that he was inspired by and turning them into something much more. Andy's limitations were pretty clear.
While I agree that marr is the better composer it's hard to compare as marr worked on a joint songwriting project with equal partnership while Andy was not as equal and working on morrisseys project of which he controls and directs alone
 
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