Morrissey Central Black Pigeon Speaks - Contrarian Morrissey & Why Modern Music Sucks

rifke said:
i believe i asked my question first. answer it and then ill answer yours.
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It seemed rhetorical since you answered it yourself. But sure, I believe most nazis, past and present, were/are anti-Semitic and it would be odd for someone to call themself a nazi and not be anti-Semitic. But I’m sure there are nuances.
 
Gregor Samsa said:
It seemed rhetorical since you answered it yourself. But sure, I believe most nazis, past and present, were/are anti-Semitic and it would be odd for someone to call themself a nazi and not be anti-Semitic. But I’m sure there are nuances.
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pretty sure systematically annihilating millions of jews isnt a nuance. pretty sure it has nothing to do with transphobia, cheesebro
 
rifke said:
pretty sure systematically annihilating millions of jews isnt a nuance. pretty sure it has nothing to do with transphobia, cheesebro
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I assume you’re not deliberately misunderstanding me, so I’ll break it down real easy for you. There are probably nuances since there are nazis a-plenty who haven’t partaken in annihilating millions of Jews. You can be an anti-Semite nazi without having killed any Jews. And what transphobia has to do with this discussion, I have no idea. You brought that up.
 
Gregor Samsa said:
I assume you’re not deliberately misunderstanding me, so I’ll break it down real easy for you. There are probably nuances since there are nazis a-plenty who haven’t partaken in annihilating millions of Jews. You can be an anti-Semite nazi without having killed any Jews. And what transphobia has to do with this discussion, I have no idea. You brought that up.
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well no, thats what im arguing. i dont think you can be a nazi if you were born any time in the past 50 years. it's absurd. you may call yourself that, but it's absurd. and calling someone that (and people like your friend nerak DO throw that word around routinely in attempted condemnations of anyone who doesnt embrace the whole leftist ideology) is absurd.

yes, the nazis may have been guilty of a whole host of ills, and surely they would have persecuted trans people. but, the holocaust would not have happened at all were it not for their hatred of jews. not gay people. not gypsies. not poles. not jehovas witnesses. jews. even in the camps jews had a lower status than all the other persecuted groups. hatred of jews is the essence of who the nazis were, it was their driving force. and downplaying that, saying that "its all the same", that any bigotry or racism or hateful thinking is nazism, and therefore we engage with nazis on a daily basis, is anti-semitic, because you're not giving the nazis hatred of the jews the millenia long weight it deserves.
 
rifke said:
well no, thats what im arguing. i dont think you can be a nazi if you were born any time in the past 50 years. it's absurd. you may call yourself that, but it's absurd. and calling someone that (and people like your friend nerak DO throw that word around routinely in attempted condemnations of anyone who doesnt embrace the whole leftist ideology) is absurd.

yes, the nazis may have been guilty of a whole host of ills, and surely they would have persecuted trans people. but, the holocaust would not have happened at all were it not for their hatred of jews. not gay people. not gypsies. not poles. not jehovas witnesses. jews. even in the camps jews had a lower status than all the other persecuted groups. hatred of jews is the essence of who the nazis were, it was their driving force. and downplaying that, saying that "its all the same", that any bigotry or racism or hateful thinking is nazism, and therefore we engage with nazis on a daily basis, is anti-semitic, because you're not giving the nazis hatred of the jews the millenia long weight it deserves.
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So according to you, someone who today adheres to national socialism, ie a neo-nazi, is…delusional? If they’re not neo-nazis, what are they?

I completely agree with what you’re saying in that second paragraph. Throwing that word around frivolously is irresponsible. But unlike you, I acknowledge the existence is neo-nazis.
 
I think if a person wears a swastika badge and worships Adolf Hitler and wants to herd Jews into gas chambers on the belief that Jews are congenitally deceiftful and wicked, then that person is effectively a Nazi (or a neo-Nazi). It doesn't matter if they were born recently or not. Ideologies can get handed down, but they can also be resurrected. And the traditional anti-Semitism of the Catholic Church never quite went away, in certain Catholic quarters. It all persists to some degree.

But I agree with rifke and Redacted that to use the term Nazi cavalierly, to describe the far right, is irresponsible. It also blows up the discussion. This has become bogged down in the semantics of labeling. Just look at Black Pigeon Speaks' ideas on things and concern yourself with whether they're good or bad (and whether they're bad enough to require qualification when sharing one of his videos).
 
Aubrey McFate said:
I think if a person wears a swastika badge and worships Adolf Hitler and wants to herd Jews into gas chambers on the belief that Jews are congenitally deceiftful and wicked, then that person is effectively a Nazi (or a neo-Nazi).
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are you sure about that? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought that was called virtue signaling?



 
Gregor Samsa said:
So according to you, someone who today adheres to national socialism, ie a neo-nazi, is…delusional? If they’re not neo-nazis, what are they?

I completely agree with what you’re saying in that second paragraph. Throwing that word around frivolously is irresponsible. But unlike you, I acknowledge the existence is neo-nazis.
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yes, 'what are they?' that is a good question. perhaps we should be looking at what would make a person in this day and age want to attach such a label to themselves, superficially or otherwise.
 
Morrissey
Pushin' the Overton Window since 1982
 
Aubrey McFate said:
It's peculiar that a millennial male would be sympathetic to the alt-right?

The only thing that seems off to me is that Rayner professes to be a vegan and admires animal rights activists. On Twitter recently he was noting the birthday of Pamela Anderson and lauding her for her committment to the animals. But vegans are a distinct minority on the right, and a lot of right-wing commentary involves mockery of vegans. Whether Rayner or Morrissey himself has an interest in these far-right videos, it's odd either way. I suppose some people can successfully "compartmentalize" things, but it's never seemed like Morrissey could. That's why I suspect Rayner.

I realize you have more labyrinthine hypotheses, involving Sam Melia and various journalists and secret well-timed plots to ruin Morrissey's career, but I think this is really just a simple case of a wayward nephew and an uncle not being inclined to reprimand &/or give a f*ck.
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This is my fave thing I’ve ever read.. the only time he’s ALMOST consumed any animal product was when my southern ass family forced him to thanksgiving. He had the most boring plate ever… next judgement.. I’m full of facts.. do you know how unnecessarily boring your comments are? Like .. dietary? This is fun..
 
Caitlin cash said:
This is my fave thing I’ve ever read.. the only time he’s ALMOST consumed any animal product was when my southern ass family forced him to thanksgiving. He had the most boring plate ever… next judgement.. I’m full of facts.. do you know how unnecessarily boring your comments are? Like .. dietary? This is fun..
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Caitlin, I'm sorry if I was too harsh and judgemental on your husband. I just think it's weird that a vegan would enjoy a political commentator who mocks and criticizes vegans. I do like a good schtick account, though.
 
Aubrey McFate said:
Caitlin, I'm sorry if I was too harsh and judgemental on your husband. I just think it's weird that a vegan would enjoy a political commentator who mocks and criticizes vegans. I do like a good schtick account, though.
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I’ve known him a long time. It’s hard to cook for a vegan. I took it personally 🤙 but shopping for pleather gifts is so cost efficient 🤘
 
Do you ever say to him, "Grampa was a real man who ate red meat, and who are you to think you're better than Johnny Cash?
 

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