bisexual

SRA

the queen is still ill
Moderator
People seem a bit obsessed with the idea that sexuality is something two dimensional, when it clearly isnt.

No one is entirely straight and no one is entirely homosexual.

Regarding Moz, talk of his sexuality is a bit tiresome. I think it's probable that Moz doesnt know himself because as said, its not a black and white matter.
 

SRA

the queen is still ill
Moderator
I think sexuality is variable thing. So many possibilities … a continuum if you like.
Some people settle for one thing because it’s right for them. Others change over time. For some it simply depends on the person they want to be with. Some like both men and women…

I don’t want to define myself as “n” because that limits my possibilities. It also perpetuates the idea in this society that you have to be one or the other. You don’t. Definitions are not important, people are. So long as you are happy with who you are that’s enough.
Put it better than I could. Spot on post.
 

mauve21

Long time participant
It's an interesting subject. I have to quietly say that I think
I probably am bisexual, due to past experience.
However, my current female friends are unaware
and I don't feel that they would understand.
I am very much more into men.
Haven't seen any decent ones about for ages, where I live
unfortunately.
Contrary to that I'm not about to chase down any skirt.
It's a very "straight" area where I live. But it's safe for my son
and I. So as a suburban woman, wishing I could meet someone
nice soon. My marriage ended three and a half years ago, I really
hope things will change soon....
Sexuality; I truly believe religion has f***ed around with people's minds way too much in this area.
 

nightandday

New Member
theres an interview from this year where they ask him if he's gay, staight or bi and he says none of them. Obviously he's not straight but he's said often he's not gay and I think if he was gay he'd just say that was his business instead of lying. Pansexual anyone?:)
Hm, well, he didn't actually say he wasn't any of these things, he said he coudln't be contained by anything. He obviously dislikes labels. He did, however, use the word 'bisexual' to describe himself in his letters to his pen pal Robert Mackie, but that was ages ago, he might have changed his mind since. It might be closer than other labels (except 'asexual', but I don't think he still considers himself asexual), but he might feel that it is ultimately unsatisfying, or he might think it gives the wrong idea. Or he might not be entirely sure how to define himself, or he might really feel that it's impossible to define him. Based on his statements, bisexual/pansexual seems like the least wrong label, if you have to put a label on it.
 

nightandday

New Member
Surely no one seriously thinks Morrissey is hetero!?
Sorry, but what's the shock about?? (Not that I didn't anticipate this reaction...) I don't think that Morrissey is hetero, but I don't see why it would be so incredible that someone might think that? I don't see you being shocked and exclaiming "Surely no one seriously thinks Morrissey is gay!?" I'll tell you my opinion on this - however unlikely it is that Morrissey is straight, it's even more unlikely that he's gay. In fact, I can't possibly think of a scenario in which Morrissey would be gay, because in that case none of the things he said and did in public in the last 3 decades would make any sense at all. I could explain it in more detail if you like, but simply put, he definitely doesn't consider himself gay, and all of his behaviour and statements are the very opposite of what closet or suppressed homosexual would behave, so much that he would be on the top of my list of 'people who are least likely to be closet homosexuals'. This should be obvious to anyone who cares to give it a logical thought for a moment. Yet it is supposed to be perfectly reasonable to claim that he's gay, but not to claim that he's straight? Why? Just because it's a widespread belief among journalists who know virtually nothing about him? I'm not as brainwashed to believe that any idea that is widespread is true, especially when I look into it and see that it's based on no foundations.
 

nightandday

New Member
This is what fascinates me most:

gay Morrissey fans think that he's gay
hetero M. fans.......................... hetero
bi M.fans................................. bi
asexual M. fans......................... asexual

:D

It's not as simple as that. Some gay fans don't think he's gay (Mark Simpson doesn't, for instance). Some heterosexual fans believe that he's bisexual, some believe that he's gay. (Some people who identify themselves as heterosexual males and Morrissey fans actually insist very strongly and vehemently that he's gay, so much that you have to wonder what their motives are... This might actually the group I find the most interesting to observe.) For instance, I know that many of his heterosexual female fans believe, or even, it seems to me, like to believe that he's gay. Strange as it might seem.

But ultimately, many people who argue over these things, fans or detractors (or those who are a combination of both), seem to be pushing some sort of agenda and trying to prove something of higher importance - I suppose because Morrissey is such a mythical, iconic figure, and people attach special meanings and importance to his personality, the question of his sexuality is supposed to mean more than just someone's private matter?
 
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lilikoi

New Member
i don´t really understand why people even care so much about it. it is kind of silly. what i do find lame is someone like david bowie who claims to be gay while married just to cause a ´scandal´ and sell more records and then later say it was just a joke. how foolish. and how foolish that such ´scandals´ even boost record sales. f o o l i s h....
 

nightandday

New Member
i don´t really understand why people even care so much about it. it is kind of silly. what i do find lame is someone like david bowie who claims to be gay while married just to cause a ´scandal´ and sell more records and then later say it was just a joke. how foolish. and how foolish that such ´scandals´ even boost record sales. f o o l i s h....
And isn't it amazing that nobody seems to have any problem with Bowie so blatantly misrepresenting and manipulating his image? But no, everyone just thinks Bowie is cool. Whereas Morrissey is constantly criticized for supposedly not being sincere about his sexuality, being fake and manipulative, etc. :confused: What is that about? Is it that people just take Morrissey more seriously than other stars, or what?

BTW... I've now remembered an old thread about Mark E.Smith. Someone, I think it was Jones, wondered why people don't hate and diss MES the way they hate and diss Morrissey for being difficult, arrogant, and so on, when MES is so difficult and unpleasant. Jones thought it was because of 'homophobia', because MES is definitely known to be straight. No, Jones, I don't think so, not in this case. There are lots of people who have no opinion at all on Morrissey's sexuality, or haven't thought about it, and people who don't think he's gay, but who hate him with a passion (actually, one guy who was spewing anger after Moz' concert at Exit in Serbia seemed especially to be annoyed by his popularity with women...). (Not to mention quite a few stars who are definitely gay, but who provoke no particular hatred, even when they act like jerks.) The reason for this hate is that MES is seen more like a grumpy bad-mannered sod (and ugly, too... that seems to endear him to many men), while Morrissey is usually seen as an arrogant bastard, as someone who thinks that they're more intelligent, intellectual, sophisticated, and generally superior to others. Even worse that that! - people feel that he really might be all that. And one thing people will never forgive you is being smarter and better than them!

That's why people are always trying to 'expose' him as something or other. Many people would just love to find out some sort of sordid sexual story about him, just to bring him down from his height. And I suppose most of them think that a homosexual story would be particulalry sordid (plus they could always say 'oh well, you know, we just diss him because *gasp* HE WON't COME OUT! that's all! it's not like we're prejudiced!" ) So you get all the detractors (like certain people on this forum I won't mention) who call him a 'queen' or try to diss him with stupid jokes about him being gay. I'm not even sure that many of them genuinely think that he's gay, but they want to believe it because, in their mind, it would say 'oh, you see, we knew all along that he wasn't a real man!', and 'see, he has his sordid secret, we knew he wasn't better than any of us!' ( But the best for them would be if they could prove that he shags underage rent boys or some nonsense like that - make it as sordid as possible!)

And you know... the funniest thing is that people keep complaining that Morrissey won't 'reveal' all about his sexuality and love life - when, in fact, nobody really wants him to reveal anything! That way, everyone can have their own theories and fantasies, and the situation is really perfect for everyone!
 

Danny

Senior Member
And isn't it amazing that nobody seems to have any problem with Bowie so blatantly misrepresenting and manipulating his image? But no, everyone just thinks Bowie is cool. Whereas Morrissey is constantly criticized for supposedly not being sincere about his sexuality, being fake and manipulative, etc. :confused: What is that about? Is it that people just take Morrissey more seriously than other stars, or what?

BTW... I've now remembered an old thread about Mark E.Smith. Someone, I think it was Jones, wondered why people don't hate and diss MES the way they hate and diss Morrissey for being difficult, arrogant, and so on, when MES is so difficult and unpleasant. Jones thought it was because of 'homophobia', because MES is definitely known to be straight. No, Jones, I don't think so, not in this case. There are lots of people who have no opinion at all on Morrissey's sexuality, or haven't thought about it, and people who don't think he's gay, but who hate him with a passion (actually, one guy who was spewing anger after Moz' concert at Exit in Serbia seemed especially to be annoyed by his popularity with women...). (Not to mention quite a few stars who are definitely gay, but who provoke no particular hatred, even when they act like jerks.) The reason for this hate is that MES is seen more like a grumpy bad-mannered sod (and ugly, too... that seems to endear him to many men), while Morrissey is usually seen as an arrogant bastard, as someone who thinks that they're more intelligent, intellectual, sophisticated, and generally superior to others. Even worse that that! - people feel that he really might be all that. And one thing people will never forgive you is being smarter and better than them!

That's why people are always trying to 'expose' him as something or other. Many people would just love to find out some sort of sordid sexual story about him, just to bring him down from his height. And I suppose most of them think that a homosexual story would be particulalry sordid (plus they could always say 'oh well, you know, we just diss him because *gasp* HE WON't COME OUT! that's all! it's not like we're prejudiced!" ) So you get all the detractors (like certain people on this forum I won't mention) who call him a 'queen' or try to diss him with stupid jokes about him being gay. I'm not even sure that many of them genuinely think that he's gay, but they want to believe it because, in their mind, it would say 'oh, you see, we knew all along that he wasn't a real man!', and 'see, he has his sordid secret, we knew he wasn't better than any of us!' ( But the best for them would be if they could prove that he shags underage rent boys or some nonsense like that - make it as sordid as possible!)

And you know... the funniest thing is that people keep complaining that Morrissey won't 'reveal' all about his sexuality and love life - when, in fact, nobody really wants him to reveal anything! That way, everyone can have their own theories and fantasies, and the situation is really perfect for everyone!

You do realise you've gone from arguing that the dislike of Morrissey has nothing to do with homophobia, to arguing that it is everything to do with homophobia?

The reason some men find it annoying that women find Morrissey attractive is because they see it as a slight on their masculinity. They've been taught that masculinity is something that women desire and this is called into question when they see women desiring a man who questions his own masculinity, or embraces his feminine side. All that macho posing for nothing.
 
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nightandday

New Member
You do realise you've gone from arguing that the dislike of Morrissey has nothing to do with homophobia, to arguing that it is everything to do with homophobia?
I don't think I've said anything contradictory. I don't think that those people hate him because they think he's gay. I think they hate him because he appears to be better than them - more intelligent, sophisticated, etc., someone people admire and adore; of course they won't tell you that, they'll tell you he's an arrogant bastard because he considers himself superior to others. The whole 'he's gay, ha ha, we know he's gay, why doesn't he admit he's gay' is a convenient way to deal with it. ('gay' becoming in this case a tag that means 'not real man [according to our standards]' rather than 'man who has sex with men rather than women'). Hypothetically - if they, say, knew for sure that he was straight, I bet they would only hate him more. (Wouldn't that be even more maddening?)
 
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lilikoi

New Member
don´t people hate him for his views? i think many meat eaters hate him for meat is murder. meat eaters get very nasty sometimes when you tell them you´re vegetarian, even. and then all the patriots hate him for critizing the government and so on. bowie isn´t critical of anything so noone hates him. if it was about women falling for gayish men and machos not liking that then bowie, molko etc would be as hated as moz.
 

nightandday

New Member
don´t people hate him for his views? i think many meat eaters hate him for meat is murder. meat eaters get very nasty sometimes when you tell them you´re vegetarian, even. and then all the patriots hate him for critizing the government and so on. bowie isn´t critical of anything so noone hates him. if it was about women falling for gayish men and machos not liking that then bowie, molko etc would be as hated as moz.
Of course. He can't open his mouth without saying something that will drive people nuts :D The newest outbreak of hate was after his comments on animal rights militia and his decision not to play Canada. Granted, his views on the issue of the use of violence for animal rights are extreme, and I don't agree with some of them, but at least he speaks his mind. I can imagine how angry it makes people who strongly disagree with his views: "that arrogant bastard, saying that meat is murder!...who does he think he is!" Someone who speaks out expressing unpopular views is always going to be hated by the multitude. When you define yourself as a vegetarian, or as a feminist, many people will think "who do you think you are? you think you are so much better than us?" Unlike Bowie, who is seen as a chameleon who will use anything to create an image - and people see it as juts great fun and so cool! - Morrissey is taken seriously, as someone who holds strong views and is outspoken. That's why there is so much adoration and so much hatred for him. Even among people who should not be ideologically oposed to his views - the NME writers in the early 90s just felt they've had enough of him and wanted to make him go away, so they started the whole 'racist' campaign, as the best way to destroy him!
 

lilikoi

New Member
Of course. He can't open his mouth without saying something that will drive people nuts :D The newest outbreak of hate was after his comments on animal rights militia and his decision not to play Canada. Granted, his views on the issue of the use of violence for animal rights are extreme, and I don't agree with some of them, but at least he speaks his mind. I can imagine how angry it makes people who strongly disagree with his views: "that arrogant bastard, saying that meat is murder!...who does he think he is!" Someone who speaks out expressing unpopular views is always going to be hated by the multitude. When you define yourself as a vegetarian, or as a feminist, many people will think "who do you think you are? you think you are so much better than us?" Unlike Bowie, who is seen as a chameleon who will use anything to create an image - and people see it as juts great fun and so cool! - Morrissey is taken seriously, as someone who holds strong views and is outspoken. That's why there is so much adoration and so much hatred for him. Even among people who should not be ideologically oposed to his views - the NME writers in the early 90s just felt they've had enough of him and wanted to make him go away, so they started the whole 'racist' campaign, as the best way to destroy him!


that racist campaign is just so ridiculous. and so typical of stupid people. when they can't find anything to say they'll go for the racist crap. especially animal rights activists are always accused of being right wing and racist and all this crap - especially here in austria. I have a friend who is the head of the most effective animal rights groups here in vienna and he is one of the most hated people in austria, he gets death threats all the time - and his foes are trying very hard to find 'right wing' connections and stuff like that. so, if he happens to share 2 words with someone qustionable then there's be some article with racist accusations popping up somewhere soon. ah - how I hate the stupidity of this world!!!!!!!

this has been discussed in the Peta thread already, but the violence used by animal rights activists is only 'violence' against things such as doors and lab equipment for example - and never against humans or animals. I do not believe there is such a thing as 'violence against material things'. you can call it sabotage - but not violence. that is an inapropriate term used by the media to misinform people.
 
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