Bernard Sumner (New Order) on Morrissey

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...e-hated-work-and-normality-1.3952803?mode=amp

Excerpt:
Did Johnny broach the subject of his former bandmate, Morrissey, and his increasingly questionable endorsements of a far-right fringe party called For Britain?

“I think we questioned his dubious politics,” Sumner answers. “He has become a bit toxic, hasn’t he? The world has gone a bit like that at the moment. We were only discussing this at dinner last night. It’s gone a bit pear-shaped. These are very strange times and a lot of things don’t seem to make sense. We’ve got Brexit in the UK. I’m not a fan. Obviously you’ve got Mr Trump. I find it difficult to call him President Trump. Let’s call him Resident Trump.”
 

Comments

The Truth

about Ruth
Don't play the semantics game where you refer to American Indians(a generic name given by Europeans) as Native American(another generic name, promoted by Jews to subvert our identity as a nation). America was not a country then, yes they may have become part of America but they were just as much immigrants (by your standard anyways), as whoever they themselves had conquered when they "immigrated" there before Europeans discovered and proceeded to conquer the land from them. Vicious cycles that permeate pretty much most of history. A more modern example i suppose would be the small hats themselves and the formation of Israel but that's more convoluted. The fact remains actual native Americans are largely made up of predominantly English but alsoto a lesser extent French and Irish bloodlines. They have many descendants of which are the true inheritors and natives of this country. If you descend from them you are a native , if not you are an immigrant. I can become a Japanese citizen but i will never be Japanese
"America" is not a country now. You accuse me of "playing semantics" but you're just making things up.
There is no country called "America." Citizens of the US are referred to as Americans, but they're not citizens of "America."
I told you that "American Indians" is a ridiculous term, somewhat improved by "Native Americans" but only because this is not "India," so the "Indian" thing was always just dumb and shouldn't have lasted for hundreds of years.
Not sure how "Native American" as a term is related to what you refer to as "the small hats." Source?

So people who descend from English, French, and Irish bloodlines and are born here are natives but others who are born here are immigrants?
 

The Truth

about Ruth
You're right about the USA, but you lost the argument : it's a country based on immigration, colony, replacement, destruction of the natives. So does it mean that the country should accept another round of invasion, replacement, colony and destruction of the ones that have been there not since the beginning but since 3 or 4 centuries ? What's your policy about colonies and invasions ? Almost every country has been invaded at one point of its history. Does that mean that it should go on forever ? Should we, the west, go in Turkey and take our land back ?

The world has been built upon migrations, colonies, destructions, wars, invasions and replacement of populations. Funny or tragic thing is that it's the left, the peaceful and moral left that wants that story to go on. You are the imperialists. You are with the power of the powerful. You are the colony ideologists. You are the destroyers of the people, nations and civilisations as they are.

History of the world has come to a planet full of different cultures, nations, civilisations, religions. Why can't we let it as it is ? Isn't the world adult enough to just pause and say : we are the product of an history. We are patrimony. We should keep it that way, just like we are beginning to understand we should try to preserve flowers, trees, animals, monuments as they are. Why would you be so eager to transform France in Algeria ?

And we are the true lovers of peace, diversity and cultures. I love an african Africa. A japanese Japan. A french France.
"The argument" was only that "no one can make a case against nationalism" and I did.
No one ever accepted colonization. I'm not suggesting the US would accept it either.
History doesn't stop. What I would like to see is maybe looking into why people are packing everything they own, crawling out of the rubble and leaving. I don't think most people are born immigrants. Most of us feel attached to the place we were born. If masses of people are giving up their lives to travel long distances on the hopes of something better then there must be something wrong with where they're at. Maybe while we're stopping the clock we could turn it back to before Kissinger put policies into motion to destabilize Syria. These actions led to people being so desperate that a suicide bomb seemed like a good idea.
I'm not saying we can just fix the places that people are fleeing from but that might be a good long term policy.
 

wastelandofyourhead

Active Member
You're right about the USA, but you lost the argument : it's a country based on immigration, colony, replacement, destruction of the natives. So does it mean that the country should accept another round of invasion, replacement, colony and destruction of the ones that have been there not since the beginning but since 3 or 4 centuries ? What's your policy about colonies and invasions ? Almost every country has been invaded at one point of its history. Does that mean that it should go on forever ? Should we, the west, go in Turkey and take our land back ?

The world has been built upon migrations, colonies, destructions, wars, invasions and replacement of populations. Funny or tragic thing is that it's the left, the peaceful and moral left that wants that story to go on. You are the imperialists. You are with the power of the powerful. You are the colony ideologists. You are the destroyers of the people, nations and civilisations as they are.

History of the world has come to a planet full of different cultures, nations, civilisations, religions. Why can't we let it as it is ? Isn't the world adult enough to just pause and say : we are the product of an history. We are patrimony. We should keep it that way, just like we are beginning to understand we should try to preserve flowers, trees, animals, monuments as they are. Why would you be so eager to transform France in Algeria ?

And we are the true lovers of peace, diversity and cultures. I love an african Africa. A japanese Japan. A french France.
Well said! That’s really how I feel about it. I don’t know what is multicultural about blending all nations into a monoculture?

I like to refer to Japan for this as well because I’m a bit of a weeb and have been there and enjoy their cultural and industrial exports. I think it would be incredibly racist for me, a non-Japanese, to presume to instruct the nation of Japan on how they should live and who they should let augment their culture.

By extension, I think this applies to all nations. Clearly, not all nations are as ethnically homogeneous as Japan (and I’m not insinuating a purge where this is not the case). But it is clear that regulating the immigration rate and stipulating the conditions for cultural integration into a country is a positive and practical thing.

But what we are seeing pushed by a group of people and their tragic followers is this make-believe kumbaya where mass immigration is just going to work out — just because. And when a large portion of a nation’s population disagrees with the globalist agenda, they’re socially prosecuted by the media and their sycophants.

But the hubris doesn’t stop there. In nations like the U.S., the message in the media, entertainment and big-tech oligarchy is out in the open that being of the legacy predominant culture, especially a “white male”, is this tired old trope. This problematic thing. This aspect of the culture that we’re going to fix.

That can be a source of cognitive dissonance if you’re in the so-called ‘privilege class’ based on that immutable characteristic, and yet barely getting by. Not having access to the implied extra resources, even though you are the supposed privileged majority. Then you hear that you are the problem. And a racist for being in the majority. A majority that is generationally evaporating. Surreality.

I never thought about race that much before (grew up in the greater Los Angeles area). After Obama was elected as president, I naturally assumed we would have more racial harmony. But the rhetoric and bullshit only seemed to escalate. It has been galvanizing — multicultural agenda; censorious bad behavior on the left; manipulative media; multinational corporations virtue-signaling woke nonsense.

Nations provide cultural strength. They provide resistance to world totalitarianism. Kumbaya isn't coming any time soon.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I'm not saying we can just fix the places that people are fleeing from but that might be a good long term policy.
Why assist when you can exploit? No G20 country (and more), that I'm aware of, are interested in long term policies, just short term gains. Most of the countries were people are fleeing are fleeing beacuse external interference that has changed their country for the worse (mostly G20 countries); either due to oil, proximity to oil, or strategic importance. None of those countries will stand up and take any responsibilty for the situations they have systematically caused. They're too busy on the look out for the next opportunity. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions dead. It matters not to those who remain directly unaffected. It matters less to those who profit (one way or another) from it.
 
V

vegan cro spirit

Guest
"The argument" was only that "no one can make a case against nationalism" and I did.
No one ever accepted colonization. I'm not suggesting the US would accept it either.
History doesn't stop. What I would like to see is maybe looking into why people are packing everything they own, crawling out of the rubble and leaving. I don't think most people are born immigrants. Most of us feel attached to the place we were born. If masses of people are giving up their lives to travel long distances on the hopes of something better then there must be something wrong with where they're at. Maybe while we're stopping the clock we could turn it back to before Kissinger put policies into motion to destabilize Syria. These actions led to people being so desperate that a suicide bomb seemed like a good idea.
I'm not saying we can just fix the places that people are fleeing from but that might be a good long term policy.
:straightface:

WTF? KISSINGER?:lbf: Kissinger destabilzed Syria? Obama destabilized Syria FFS. KISSINGER???:crazy:
what does Kissenger have to do wth the price of tea in China?:crazy: Baath socialist takeover of Syria while Nixon was out playing with the dog Checkers, there was no Kissinger then. :straightface:

Why they leave instead of fighting to improve stuff over there?
because in the West they can game the system and get free stuff with the help the other moochers,
the WOKE brigade, who want all kind of stuff without having to work for it.:straightface::straightface:

WtF? KISSINGER??
 
V

vegan cro spirit

Guest
I'm not "equating" anything. It is a fact that people immigrated to what became the United States and that it was founded by immigrants.
How can someone be NATIVE AMERICAN and English? Where were they born? What is the definition of native?
I get that you want to say the people that were here before the United States existed are not "Native Americans" and that term generally is misleading in that it makes many groups of people seem like they were all one large group who were all the same.
But you can't be a native of a place you were not born at, and the people that founded the US were not born here.
:crazy:

WTF? Indians were running around for many years without there being any United States of America.
this WOKE history makes things up as they go along, never seen anything like it.:lbf:
 
"America" is not a country now. You accuse me of "playing semantics" but you're just making things up.
There is no country called "America." Citizens of the US are referred to as Americans, but they're not citizens of "America."
I told you that "American Indians" is a ridiculous term, somewhat improved by "Native Americans" but only because this is not "India," so the "Indian" thing was always just dumb and shouldn't have lasted for hundreds of years.
Not sure how "Native American" as a term is related to what you refer to as "the small hats." Source?

So people who descend from English, French, and Irish bloodlines and are born here are natives but others who are born here are immigrants?
No you missed every point as usual or intentionally subverting, i'm starting to think you're part small hat. Both those terms are dumb but the more recent term "native americans" is intentionally designed to subvert our countries history and the identity of it's true descendants. And no, i didn't say just any English, Irish or French born here are natives while anyone else is immigrants, however there is true natives and yes they are mostly of English bloodlines historically. Read my previous post cause you didn't get the concept.
 
Last edited:
V

vegan cro spirit 555

Guest
I'm not "equating" anything. It is a fact that people immigrated to what became the United States and that it was founded by immigrants.
How can someone be NATIVE AMERICAN and English? Where were they born? What is the definition of native?
I get that you want to say the people that were here before the United States existed are not "Native Americans" and that term generally is misleading in that it makes many groups of people seem like they were all one large group who were all the same.
But you can't be a native of a place you were not born at, and the people that founded the US were not born here.
WTF!!????:crazy:
you cant be a native of the place you were not born and the people that founded the us were not born here????????????????????:crazy:

there was no USA before it was founded by the peeps. Before the USA the area was
part of the UK.:lbf: there was NO USA before it was founded by George Wash and co.

there were no USA natives from BEFORE the USA was created FFSo_O
just like you cant be a skinny sock puppet without there being a skinny first.

:lbf:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
As I had never heard of Bernard before, he must be glued to this thread lol. At least somewhere someone is discussing you. Enjoy Bernie :rock::rolleyes:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
As I had never heard of Bernard before, he must be glued to this thread lol. At least somewhere someone is discussing you. Enjoy Bernie :rock::rolleyes:
You've never heard of Joy Division or New Order? Go back to Stormfront. You don't belong on a music forum.
 

The Truth

about Ruth
:straightface:

WTF? KISSINGER?:lbf: Kissinger destabilzed Syria? Obama destabilized Syria FFS. KISSINGER???:crazy:
what does Kissenger have to do wth the price of tea in China?:crazy: Baath socialist takeover of Syria while Nixon was out playing with the dog Checkers, there was no Kissinger then. :straightface:

Why they leave instead of fighting to improve stuff over there?
because in the West they can game the system and get free stuff with the help the other moochers,
the WOKE brigade, who want all kind of stuff without having to work for it.:straightface::straightface:

WtF? KISSINGER??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation
 

The Truth

about Ruth
WTF!!????:crazy:
you cant be a native of the place you were not born and the people that founded the us were not born here????????????????????:crazy:

there was no USA before it was founded by the peeps. Before the USA the area was
part of the UK.:lbf: there was NO USA before it was founded by George Wash and co.

there were no USA natives from BEFORE the USA was created FFSo_O
just like you cant be a skinny sock puppet without there being a skinny first.

:lbf:
The US was part of the UK? I missed that day in history. FFS
 

The Truth

about Ruth
His take on American history explains his retarded stance on immigration
What is my stance on immigration?
No you missed every point as usual or intentionally subverting, i'm starting to think you're part small hat. Both those terms are dumb but the more recent term "native americans" is intentionally designed to subvert our countries history and the identity of it's true descendants. And no, i didn't say just any English, Irish or French born here are natives while anyone else is immigrants, however there is true natives and yes they are mostly of English bloodlines historically. Read my previous post cause you didn't get the concept.
Source?
 

The Truth

about Ruth
Well said! That’s really how I feel about it. I don’t know what is multicultural about blending all nations into a monoculture?

I like to refer to Japan for this as well because I’m a bit of a weeb and have been there and enjoy their cultural and industrial exports. I think it would be incredibly racist for me, a non-Japanese, to presume to instruct the nation of Japan on how they should live and who they should let augment their culture.

By extension, I think this applies to all nations. Clearly, not all nations are as ethnically homogeneous as Japan (and I’m not insinuating a purge where this is not the case). But it is clear that regulating the immigration rate and stipulating the conditions for cultural integration into a country is a positive and practical thing.

But what we are seeing pushed by a group of people and their tragic followers is this make-believe kumbaya where mass immigration is just going to work out — just because. And when a large portion of a nation’s population disagrees with the globalist agenda, they’re socially prosecuted by the media and their sycophants.

But the hubris doesn’t stop there. In nations like the U.S., the message in the media, entertainment and big-tech oligarchy is out in the open that being of the legacy predominant culture, especially a “white male”, is this tired old trope. This problematic thing. This aspect of the culture that we’re going to fix.

That can be a source of cognitive dissonance if you’re in the so-called ‘privilege class’ based on that immutable characteristic, and yet barely getting by. Not having access to the implied extra resources, even though you are the supposed privileged majority. Then you hear that you are the problem. And a racist for being in the majority. A majority that is generationally evaporating. Surreality.

I never thought about race that much before (grew up in the greater Los Angeles area). After Obama was elected as president, I naturally assumed we would have more racial harmony. But the rhetoric and bullshit only seemed to escalate. It has been galvanizing — multicultural agenda; censorious bad behavior on the left; manipulative media; multinational corporations virtue-signaling woke nonsense.

Nations provide cultural strength. They provide resistance to world totalitarianism. Kumbaya isn't coming any time soon.
That's nice that you're not calling for a purge.
 

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