"As a black teenager, I loved Morrissey. But heaven knows..." - Guardian article by Joshua Surtees

Going by how many anti-Corbyn articles the Guardian managed to publish after he was first elected leader, I suspect they've got about another 150 of these anti-Morrissey pieces in the pipeline...

As a black teenager, I loved Morrissey. But heaven knows I’m miserable now - Opinion / The Guardian
By Joshua Surtees
I used to defend Morrissey against accusations of racism. Now I feel betrayed by his support for bigots like Tommy Robinson

(And it's some top class trolling, using "Heaven Knows..." in the article title, given how much they know Morrissey hates that and "Bigmouth" being used in headlines.)

This is never going to end unless Morrissey backtracks/apologises. Which means: this is never going to end.


Related item:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Comments

This isn't me challenging or opposing you. I'm just curious-
Do you also think that dividing people by sex and determining which sex on average has a higher propensity towards something is sexist? What about stats on sex and IQ? Sexist?
The idea is that there was a reason for the IQ tests and that the intention behind them was not strictly scientific. So let's leave out if the tests favor one group over another because of something in their design. That is something that would have to be dealt with but it's not the point.
Historically these sorts of tests were given to natives of a land that was being colonized or made part of the empire of a different nation with a different culture and usually different ethnicity. They were used to scientifically determine that the natives were inferior to the people who were invading and colonizing. There is clear bias here, because if I want all of your resources and I can "prove" that you don't know what to do with it anyway, then I am justified in taking it for the greater good.

Men and women don't have a situation that is equivalent. There is no country of women that was colonized by a country of men.
But that isn't really the point either. It's that you can't consider something scientific if it is biased from the start.
I do think that if a woman was judged by a group of men she would not score as highly as if she was judged by a group of women, and the opposite is also true.

The "propensity for something" would have to be defined. We do know that women tend to live longer and men tend to have more heart attacks. Those are not sexist observations. They seem to be true, and there are real world applications for these observations that are for the benefit of all. Why do women live longer? How does that affect society and how can we plan for the future using this information?
It's not being used against anyone.

And IQ tests don't have to be racist either. It depends on how they are looked at. If we say that one group scores lower on the tests so they are by nature less intelligent than the group that scores higher, and we use this information to justify racist attitudes and policies then that is racist.
But if we look at the tests not as a judgement on the groups but more as a diagnostic, then we can try to work on tests that are more accurate, by removing whatever cultural factors there are. And we can look at what is different about the groups apart from skin color. and work out if these other factors make a difference.
In other words the tests are not 100% scientific and accurate. Other tests will get other results. And you would have to have an accurate test and do a very long term study to determine that one "race" has a higher IQ than another. Then you would have to look at what that might mean.
If women do score higher on the test. or lower, then we would have to look at what that means. You can't say it means women are smarter since the beginning of time and always will be. You can only show that this test, under these conditions, given to this group gave this result.
 
But if we look at the tests not as a judgement on the groups but more as a diagnostic, then we can try to work on tests that are more accurate, by removing whatever cultural factors there are.
It's already been tried. They have made culturally-neutral IQ tests that work by matching shape patterns. They look like this.




It's been tried. It's ALL been tried. They've tried controlling for income, they've tried controlling for environment, they've tried controlling for education, they've tried studying non-white children raised by white families, they've tried handing a black school district unlimited resources, they've tried studying identicle twins raised separately.

They have tried and tried and tried and tried to prove that blacks are as intelligent as whites and no matter how they crunch the numbers, they keep running into the same 15 point IQ gap again and again and again and again.

It's ALL been tried.
 
It's already been tried. They have made culturally-neutral IQ tests that work by matching shape patterns. They look like this.




It's been tried. It's ALL been tried. They've tried controlling for income, they've tried controlling for environment, they've tried controlling for education, they've tried studying non-white children raised by white families, they've tried handing a black school district unlimited resources, they've tried studying identicle twins raised separately.

They have tried and tried and tried and tried to prove that blacks are as intelligent as whites and no matter how they crunch the numbers, they keep running into the same 15 point IQ gap again and again and again and again.

It's ALL been tried.
Your failure to identify and address my point is worrying but I believe you can do it. Go back and try again, reading more slowly this time. Sound out the difficult words and don't be afraid to ask for help.
 
"Why bother with milkshake when you could get some battery acid?"

Repulsive liberal 'comedian' Jo Brand.

View attachment 50300
Having met Jo Brand, albeit briefly, I’d like to share that she is warm, witty and blessed with a soft spot for Morrissey which might complicate your dismissal.

I’m no hater of Nigel, but I found the joke amusing and/but fully consistent with a repertoire that has otherwise been embraced at the Beeb.

The latter should incidentally be applauded for making their own case against the licence fee; not least in their flakey support for the very agenda they press. Roll on propaganda backed up with apologies and hand-wringing: the state machinery deconstructs itself.

We are told we live in ‘complicated’ times, yet the problems and their answers couldn’t be simpler.
 
Having met Jo Brand, albeit briefly, I’d like to share that she is warm, witty and blessed with a soft spot for Morrissey which might complicate your dismissal.

I’m no hater of Nigel, but I found the joke amusing and/but fully consistent with a repertoire that has otherwise been embraced at the Beeb.

The latter should incidentally be applauded for making their own case against the licence fee; not least in their flakey support for the very agenda they press. Roll on propaganda backed up with apologies and hand-wringing: the state machinery deconstructs itself.

We are told we live in ‘complicated’ times, yet the problems and their answers couldn’t be simpler.
Since Morrissey's support for the For Britain party I would safely wager that her soft spot for him is well and truly over.
 
Having met Jo Brand, albeit briefly, I’d like to share that she is warm, witty and blessed with a soft spot for Morrissey which might complicate your dismissal.

I’m no hater of Nigel, but I found the joke amusing and/but fully consistent with a repertoire that has otherwise been embraced at the Beeb.

The latter should incidentally be applauded for making their own case against the licence fee; not least in their flakey support for the very agenda they press. Roll on propaganda backed up with apologies and hand-wringing: the state machinery deconstructs itself.

We are told we live in ‘complicated’ times, yet the problems and their answers couldn’t be simpler.
Jokes about battery acid are one step away from gas chamber Jew jokes. Not for me.
 
A
Jokes about battery acid are one step away from gas chamber Jew jokes. Not for me.
Yes. She’ll be making sick jokes about beheading the PM next, or something equally horrendous. Perhaps hanging disc jockeys? God knows what might come into her fanatical crazed satirical head.

Thank The Lord we’re all above those kind of ill thought out quips here. Not for me either! There are some things you don’t joke about, and disgruntled Tories is certainly one of them!
 
Top Bottom