Are recent fans more loyal to Morrissey than older fans?

MorrisseyGal

New Member
A fan of Morrissey mentioned on twitter that they felt that recent Morrissey fans seemed to be more loyal. The recent fans seem to be able to give Morrissey the benefit of the doubt and focus on the music. They also said that quite a lot of the older fans were jumping ship and giving up on Morrissey. Do you think this is true? How do you feel about it?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Well it makes sense that newer fans are loyal, because they've actually become fans during "controversial" times and are thereby open minded to him and his point of view.
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
Not sure how you can be more loyal than people who have followed him for over 30 years? Maybe the question should be "are recent fans more accepting of Morrisseys views than older fans"
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I think the long timers have just had more time to invest in there idea of morrissey and when he doesn’t fit get more offended. They’ve had more time to believe morrissey is what they think he is. He’s a weird ambiguous guy who’s logic has never really been straightforward
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I think the more recent and younger fans still feel the need to prove their loyalty so for the time being they'll still say everything he does is fantastic and brilliant. Give it a few years and they'll probably appear to be a bit less loyal.
 

Anaesthesine

Angel of Distemper
One fan's highly simplified overview:

The Smiths: Morrissey bursts on the scene channeling Oscar Wilde: charming, alarmingly clever, proudly and bravely his own man. He borrows (and steals) from the best. The music with Johnny Marr is some of the greatest pop ever written.

Early Solo Years: Morrissey has a James Dean vibe about him now: devastatingly handsome - a kind of reckless, bruised manhood still infused with that wicked Wildean wit. The music is increasingly uneven, but the best of it is some of his greatest work.

"Comeback" Years: Morrissey channels Elvis and Frank Sinatra: sexy elder statesman, swaggeringly confident, sneeringly masterful, with the voice and the music to back it up.

The Present: Morrissey channels Donald Trump and Steve Bannon: alienated, bitter and spiteful. The music is increasingly dull, but the magnificent voice and hints of former glories remain.

Newer fans cannot mourn what they never had to lose.
 
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Peppermint

Well-Known Member
One fan's highly simplified overview:

The Smiths: Morrissey bursts on the scene channeling Oscar Wilde: charming, alarmingly clever, proudly and bravely his own man. He borrows (and steals) from the best. The music with Johnny Marr is some of the greatest pop ever written.

Early Solo Years: Morrissey has a James Dean vibe about him now: devastatingly handsome - a kind of reckless, bruised manhood still infused with that wicked Wildean wit. The music is increasingly uneven, but the best of it is some of his greatest work.

"Comeback" Years: Morrissey channels Elvis and Frank Sinatra: sexy elder statesman, swaggeringly confident, sneeringly masterful, with the voice and the music to back it up.

The Present: Morrissey channels Donald Trump and Steve Bannon: alienated, bitter and spiteful. The music is increasingly dull, but the magnificent voice and hints of former glories remain.

Newer fans cannot mourn what they never had to lose.
Wonderful summary :thumb:
 

William Blake's Seven

Active Member
One fan's highly simplified overview:

The Smiths: Morrissey bursts on the scene channeling Oscar Wilde: charming, alarmingly clever, proudly and bravely his own man. He borrows (and steals) from the best. The music with Johnny Marr is some of the greatest pop ever written.

Early Solo Years: Morrissey has a James Dean vibe about him now: devastatingly handsome - a kind of reckless, bruised manhood still infused with that wicked Wildean wit. The music is increasingly uneven, but the best of it is some of his greatest work.

"Comeback" Years: Morrissey channels Elvis and Frank Sinatra: sexy elder statesman, swaggeringly confident, sneeringly masterful, with the voice and the music to back it up.

The Present: Morrissey channels Donald Trump and Steve Bannon: alienated, bitter and spiteful. The music is increasingly dull, but the magnificent voice and hints of former glories remain.

Newer fans cannot mourn what they never had to lose.
I can understand where the Trump and Bannon comparisons come from, but it's a little unfair. Morrissey is no white supremacist. In fact, if anyone is capable of seeing the frailties and foolishness of his own race, it's probably Morrissey. And he's equally capable of embracing the beauty of other races and cultures. He currently seems to be walking a line between cold pragmatism and cultural conservatism. Both of which, granted, are part of the far-right/racist toolkit. But neither of which are, in themselves, explicitly racist. They are, however, undeniably ugly.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Well I challenge anyone to question the loyalty that my wife and I have given. Spanning across four decades, we’ve spent much of our life, tens of thousands of pounds, and many train/car/ferry/air miles. I gave up counting gigs when we hit about 70, and that was about 12 years ago.

We are the older fans being spoken about who’ve had enough. If some young upstart wants to go about claiming to be more loyal then I couldn’t care less. They’re only fooling themselves.

Ask Hugh Clark about loyalty.
 

ExpectingToFly

Active Member
One fan's highly simplified overview:

The Smiths: Morrissey bursts on the scene channeling Oscar Wilde: charming, alarmingly clever, proudly and bravely his own man. He borrows (and steals) from the best. The music with Johnny Marr is some of the greatest pop ever written.

Early Solo Years: Morrissey has a James Dean vibe about him now: devastatingly handsome - a kind of reckless, bruised manhood still infused with that wicked Wildean wit. The music is increasingly uneven, but the best of it is some of his greatest work.

"Comeback" Years: Morrissey channels Elvis and Frank Sinatra: sexy elder statesman, swaggeringly confident, sneeringly masterful, with the voice and the music to back it up.

The Present: Morrissey channels Donald Trump and Steve Bannon: alienated, bitter and spiteful. The music is increasingly dull, but the magnificent voice and hints of former glories remain.

Newer fans cannot mourn what they never had to lose.
Spot on, very nicely summed.

Personally, I came in at the 'comeback' stage. The You Are the Quarry era was a brilliant time to discover him. If I was to be that age at this point in time, what with Low in High School and all his recent comments, I'm not sure I would've been so drawn to him - though this is completely hypothetical, of course. I guess newer fans come to him knowing his current opinions, and if they agree or are able to overlook them, then they're not going to be as troubled by them. Whereas for many older fans, what he is now seems to contradict what we fell in love with in the first place.
 

Anaesthesine

Angel of Distemper
I can understand where the Trump and Bannon comparisons come from, but it's a little unfair. Morrissey is no white supremacist. In fact, if anyone is capable of seeing the frailties and foolishness of his own race, it's probably Morrissey. And he's equally capable of embracing the beauty of other races and cultures. He currently seems to be walking a line between cold pragmatism and cultural conservatism. Both of which, granted, are part of the far-right/racist toolkit. But neither of which are, in themselves, explicitly racist. They are, however, undeniably ugly.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

At a time of historic peril, when the US government (such as it is) is attempting to stoke racial fears, destabilize democracies and align itself with a global racist, neo-Nazi, white-nationalist movement, it is supremely unhelpful (if not outright idiotic) to publicly parrot their language if you don’t agree with their aims.
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
I can remember being ribbed at school about liking that 'poof' on the television.
I can also remember some of the 6th Formers telling everyone The Smiths were a 'paedo' band and anyone who liked them supported 'nonces' and we were probably guilty ourselves - as they all read music magazines and couldn't resist taking the opportunity the radio/press was handing them.
Luckily, their dislike just made my passion stronger. I even survived listening to him when my Mum thought he was evil for wanting Thatcher dead and a couple of my tapes got 'chewed up' as a result.
I walked around in a long black coat with paisley cuffs, quiff & beads etc... Never once seeing anything that Morrissey was cited as doing to be that outrageous as I was a bit problematic myself - misery loves company and all that. The ridicule by certain magazines, TV etc never dented my enthusiasm and the gigs just reinforced my interest. Every push nearer the front was almost a spiritual event. The occasional eye contact was sublime - you could feel almost every word and understand exactly what Morrissey was trying to tell you.
The reason I just time travelled 36 years whilst boring you all was to simply say that I can see that same degree of interest and borderline obsession in younger fans today. I've noticed at many of the recent gigs that there are certain newer fans coming alive when newer album tracks are played (yes, debate that in to the ground, but it's a first hand observation).
I have never really subscribed to the idea of lumping the artist and the art together. They should probably exist as separate entities. If people insist on policing the political views of singers and musicians - the only way to do so without being disingenuous and hypocritical is to research every single band member and singer's views and delete accordingly from your iPod if they offend your own views (a point I make often).
We will all have a different line in the sand as to how much is too much before leaping from the boat side.
The grey areas will always be very difficult to navigate:
We can't listen to Gary Glitter - he's abhorrent...
Pete Townshend - he's ok, he was only on the Sex Offender's Register for 5 years and The Who are great...
I like to cling to the romantic notion that the song is always much bigger than the singer - The Smiths validate that for me.
So does Morrissey in many cases. I will make sure to let everyone know when I'm at the point that he no longer interests me. That said, I don't share the same current passion some are putting in to analysing Morrissey the person. I don't hate those that do - their subjective view is as valid as my own. Their behaviour is a form of passion too - who am I to berate them for it?
All these years later, I engage with the songs/music more often than anything being non-sung by him.
You can be any age to do that and loyalty isn't required - just your ears.
Regards,
FWD.
 
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Anaesthesine

Angel of Distemper
Spot on, very nicely summed.

Personally, I came in at the 'comeback' stage. The You Are the Quarry era was a brilliant time to discover him. If I was to be that age at this point in time, what with Low in High School and all his recent comments, I'm not sure I would've been so drawn to him - though this is completely hypothetical, of course. I guess newer fans come to him knowing his current opinions, and if they agree or are able to overlook them, then they're not going to be as troubled by them. Whereas for many older fans, what he is now seems to contradict what we fell in love with in the first place.
The Quarry era was a wonderful time (although quite a few older fans thought he’d already lost it).

Morrissey’s genius makes his current fall that much more distressing.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Well I challenge anyone to question the loyalty that my wife and I have given. Spanning across four decades, we’ve spent much of our life, tens of thousands of pounds, and many train/car/ferry/air miles. I gave up counting gigs when we hit about 70, and that was about 12 years ago.

We are the older fans being spoken about who’ve had enough. If some young upstart wants to go about claiming to be more loyal then I couldn’t care less. They’re only fooling themselves.

Ask Hugh Clark about loyalty.
Brilliant post
 

Aubrey McFate

Lonely in Barcelona
Morrissey has definitely entered a new phase. For me, the "non-sung" aspect eclipses the music of it (though a few high points persist, such as The Girl from Tel-Aviv and Staircase at the University: "and if you breaks your legs then don't come running to me" is as fine as anything from 1984 or 85). I thought Autobiography revealed Morrissey as not only the greatest lyricist and singer of his age, but the greatest writer as well. List of the Lost confirmed it. And the interviews are more daring than ever: the tone is, if possible, even more heedless and combative; the utterances absolutely godlike.

Maybe he's separating the wheat from the chaff. The angry contingent of horrified former fans condemning him as racist verges on glorious (since many of them are bigger Nazis than Morrissey could ever be on account of their smug and blithe meat consumption). It's like when you watch one of those "creature feature" disaster movies, and you see all the panicked people shrieking in the streets—their comfortable lives upended! That's actually enjoyable. I always rooted for Godzilla or King Kong over the humans. Their rampages were magnificent. And I will always side with Morrissey, who at this point is clearly incapable of mortal misstep. Plus, he looks like a Russian mobster (also magnificent). We never would've thought thirty years ago that he might be improved by middle age and some heft—and yet. Those eyebrows were made for graying hair and a gentle tan. Rampage away, thou coolest person ever.

The new fans, if they're in it for the new music, then I guess I'm a little perplexed. But if they're in it for everything, then I completely understand.
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
Morrissey has definitely entered a new phase. For me, the "non-sung" aspect eclipses the music of it (though a few high points persist, such as The Girl from Tel-Aviv and Staircase at the University: "and if you breaks your legs then don't come running to me" is as fine as anything from 1984 or 85). I thought Autobiography revealed Morrissey as not only the greatest lyricist and singer of his age, but the greatest writer as well. List of the Lost confirmed it. And the interviews are more daring than ever: the tone is, if possible, even more heedless and combative; the utterances absolutely godlike.

Maybe he's separating the wheat from the chaff. The angry contingent of horrified former fans condemning him as racist verges on glorious (since many of them are bigger Nazis than Morrissey could ever be on account of their smug and blithe meat consumption). It's like when you watch one of those "creature feature" disaster movies, and you see all the panicked people shrieking in the streets—their comfortable lives upended! That's actually enjoyable. I always rooted for Godzilla or King Kong over the humans. Their rampages were magnificent. And I will always side with Morrissey, who at this point is clearly incapable of mortal misstep. Plus, he looks like a Russian mobster (also magnificent). We never would've thought thirty years ago that he might be improved by middle age and some heft—and yet. Those eyebrows were made for graying hair and a gentle tan. Rampage away, thou coolest person ever.

The new fans, if they're in it for the new music, then I guess I'm a little perplexed. But if they're in it for everything, then I completely understand.
Fiona strikes again
 
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Anonymous

Guest
One fan's highly simplified overview:

The Smiths: Morrissey bursts on the scene channeling Oscar Wilde: charming, alarmingly clever, proudly and bravely his own man. He borrows (and steals) from the best. The music with Johnny Marr is some of the greatest pop ever written.

Early Solo Years: Morrissey has a James Dean vibe about him now: devastatingly handsome - a kind of reckless, bruised manhood still infused with that wicked Wildean wit. The music is increasingly uneven, but the best of it is some of his greatest work.

"Comeback" Years: Morrissey channels Elvis and Frank Sinatra: sexy elder statesman, swaggeringly confident, sneeringly masterful, with the voice and the music to back it up.

The Present: Morrissey channels Donald Trump and Steve Bannon: alienated, bitter and spiteful. The music is increasingly dull, but the magnificent voice and hints of former glories remain.

Newer fans cannot mourn what they never had to lose.
Except the music is not increasingly dull at all. The last two albums have featured the most imaginative and varied music since the Stephen Street era. The Alain Whyte Southpaw to Years of Refusal chug-rock years are well and truly over.
The problem, as pretty much every single reviewer spotted, these days is the words.
 
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