Anonymous posting

Discussion in 'Site Feedback / Suggestions archive (read-only)' started by billybu69, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. billybu69

    billybu69 Junior Member Subscriber

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    Apologies if this has been raised before, but i really think it's time anonymous posting was banned on this site. Make people log in and make them responsible for what they say.This site is getting a bit of a reputation as a negative place to be and the reason is all the cowards who rant away with no fear of recourse because of anonimity.
     
  2. Stoned

    Stoned Oh well...enough said

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    I fully agree with you , very tired of them now. The ball is over to you DavidT. Please do something about!!
    Cheers Moz
     
  3. davidt

    davidt Administrator Staff Member Moderator Subscriber

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    There are a few troublemakers abusing the anonymous posting option but otherwise most are ok and I estimate over half of the informative comments are posted anonymously. Forcing a login would not necessarily guarantee that the troublemakers go away. Exactly which comments do you have a problem with? Have you used the 'report post' function to report the issue? If it is an obvious troll / spammer the comments are hidden or in rare cases deleted.

    "This site is getting a bit of a reputation as a negative place to be and the reason is all the cowards who rant away with no fear of recourse because of anonimity." My opinion is the ability to post without fear of recourse is a good thing and allows for authenticity. I actually have thought about this a lot and welcome any discussion. Here are two links which I've posted in the past that you are welcome to counter:

    4Chan Founder Moot: 'Anonymity is authenticity,' Zuckerberg 'wrong' - 2011
    In Defense of Anonymous Cowards by Jon Katz - 1999

    Usually I post my response to those who complain about anonymous comments but I don't get any sort of detailed response as they are just showing a bit of frustration at what they see as negativity or in truth, something they personally don't like.

    I appreciate the opinion but I have a different one and I'm sure other do also so your solution or mine would not fit everyone. Ideally, there is an option in the software to hide anonymous posting from people who don't wish to see them but that is not available yet.
     
  4. Flax

    Flax Active Member

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    I would love to see an example of an anonymous comment that shows authenticity and wouldn't otherwise be posted if it weren't for anonymity.
     
  5. davidt

    davidt Administrator Staff Member Moderator Subscriber

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    The proof is in itself, unless you believe all anonymous comments are worthless. Take any anonymous comment, you can't guarantee it would have been posted if not for the anonymous posting option.

    Here's a recent example:

     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2011
  6. billybu69

    billybu69 Junior Member Subscriber

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    Obviously all anonymous comment cannot be labeled worthless, but this is becoming outweighed by those that are, and worse draging an entire thread into the mire. Take last nights Hawick thread as an example. Usual setlist debate etc, broken by posts marked troll from people with knowledge of site or Morrissey in general, who definately wouldn't post if not anonymous in my opinion. Followed by two pages of general chatter punctuted by several postings of inane drivel where some clown attacks a young lad for being with his dad at a gig, and having a go at the poster because his dad had him later in life than anonymous thought the norm, and this went on over two pages. The poster in question has not been around here long probably joined the comunity out of excitement at this tour, he may not have been destined for a long solo life, but i'm sure he's not now.

    Then we got the generally childlike thoughts of these clowns who can't believe people go to see old fat men with tits performing, or the one who can't believe we go to concerts at all. would we have to trawl through all this if they had to put a name to there posts? doubt it, and it does bring the tone down.
     
  7. Flax

    Flax Active Member

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    The worthless comments, which are the ones that make your website look bad, are the ones posted by anonymous people, usually just plain offensive stuff, targeting people they name.

    These comments, I believe, wouldn't be posted if it weren't for anonymity.

    All the other stuff is fine with me.
     
  8. billy scissors

    billy scissors a bit fond

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    This,as they say here.
     
  9. Dave2006

    Dave2006 Active Member

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    I wonder what DavidT thinks is added to the site by allowing anonymous posting - where are the examples of something of value being posted anonymously that wouldn't otherwise have been revealed? Where are the posts from Morrissey insiders, or studio workers that reveal juicy info?

    There is little evidence of the 'flexiblity' and 'creativity' going on here that is mentioned in the link about Zuckerberg.

    The Hawick thread provides enough evidence of the negative affect that anonymous posting can bring to the site - puerile nonsense and bullying that should be kept in the Pigsty - I'm sure that David has enough to do with the site without having to edit troll posts. If hiding anonymous posting was possible it might be worth keeping, but given that the software doesn't allow most users to ignore anonymous posts, I'd opt for removing / banning the anonymous postings.

    As Flax said, 'All the other stuff is fine with me'.

    Dave
     
  10. billybu69

    billybu69 Junior Member Subscriber

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    and in the John Katz link the observation that most fits our problem is,

    "The real damage anonymous posters do is drive away people who have important or interesting things to say but don't want to participate in the digital equivalent of dodgem. Many women, older posters, people with demanding work and newbies in particular are disinterested in or frightened off by tostosterone-charged flamers. This is a real loss, judging from their e-mail, since many intelligent, thoughtful and useful observations are never seen."
     
  11. davidt

    davidt Administrator Staff Member Moderator Subscriber

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    Don't leave out the paragraph following that for context:

    "But the understandable impulse to chase these people off ought to be resisted. The right of Anonymous Cowards to sound off under a pseudonym is important, part of the online chemical mix. Their existence, like many things online, represents a tradeoff. They're a symbol of the freedom available online, but increasingly rare off-line. More than the mastery of software, they are a much better test for any writer of whether or not he belongs online. And whether or not he ultimately has anything to say."

    I'm glad you took the time to read the article. I agree with the tradeoff mentioned in this final paragraph. I believe comments and especially anonymous ones offer a good challenge for a writer and it's natural that those who can't handle it will swear off the site. Sticking to more traditional media or other sites that offer more control is safer.

    Reading previous posts here it seems some people don't mind some anonymous comments but 'the other stuff' should be removed. I can certainly delete more obvious trolling comments to clean up threads and ask the mods to do the same, but we'll likely hear more complaints about why certain things were deleted. It's impossible to please everyone.
     
  12. Flax

    Flax Active Member

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    I would like to see one example of one single anonymous comment that added anything to the topic, which wouldn't have been posted if anonymity weren't a possibility.
     
  13. davidt

    davidt Administrator Staff Member Moderator Subscriber

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    Did you miss comment #5?

    "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
     
  14. Flax

    Flax Active Member

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    You mean, the quote from "I love your scones"?

    I don't see that as an example of a useful anonymous comment, that wouldn't have been posted if it weren't for anonymity.

    I didn't read the whole thing, but it seems to me like an example of an anonymous comment that doesn't rely on anonymity to exist.

    However, I have show you quite a few. Let's open one article and pick a few anonymous comments. The following are all from the same article, and that's because I simply glanced.

    By glancing, I see it's a troll fest. Why would I or other people who actually have something useful to say waste time putting one useful comment among 10 long troll posts? That's why it's very unlikely you'll see me post on the main page, no matter what subject. And I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people like me.


    All of these comments are part of an article that have only 4 pages of comments. If you actually read the whole thing, my guess is that it's more than half just pure stupidity.

    What I wanna see is one, just one anonymous comment that would otherwise not exist if it weren't for anonymity.

    I think the forums are great, and I've learned a lot here, and I'm glad you keep this going, but I don't think I'll ever understand how is it that having comments about being "raped during schoolboy days" is good for anybody.

    But hey, it's your site. If you think these posts are a good thing to have, that's your choice.

    As for the Oscar Wilde quote, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't apply for the internets. You can log in, keep your mask on and talk shit gratuitously. But I'm pretty sure if that were the case, absolutely pathetic comments like the ones I mentioned above would drastically decrease we would all have a better website.

    As for the "you can't please everybody" argument, who here would be honestly outraged if commenting anonymously was not permitted?

    I would love to know.
     
  15. davidt

    davidt Administrator Staff Member Moderator Subscriber

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    I think we'll have to agree to disagree. You wrote "I don't see that as an example of a useful anonymous comment, that wouldn't have been posted if it weren't for anonymity." Are you saying you know it would have been posted if anonymous posts were turned off? How do you know this?

    Most of the posts you quoted from that thread were actually hidden as troll posts. This is not a typical thread - if you look at the original thread that it was promoted from Joe Frady called the forum 'fucked up' which may have started the animosity. As I said before, we could just as easily delete the posts instead of hide them. Is it because you are attacked in that thread that you want to use it as an example?

    You left out one post from an anonymous person that posted a link to the news on true-to-you:

     
  16. !Viva Hate!

    !Viva Hate! the queen of solo

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    As far as this thread and this whole debate about anonymity goes, how many people on this site actually use their birth names as their username?

    Is your name really Flax?
    Do you really look like a muscular Christ?
    If you answered 'No' to both of these questions, you are taking advantage of anonymity on the internet.

    I rest my case.
     
  17. Flax

    Flax Active Member

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    It wasn't because of me and honestly, I didn't even noticed I was mentioned in that thread. Quite random. I didn't even understand if that was an attack, because the post is too long and I don't read anything with more than 2 lines posted by anonymous people.

    I don't think I'm being clear, but this other example you gave is just like the first. A comment that doesn't rely on anonymity to exist.

    However, all of the comments I showed you do rely on anonymity. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't (or most of them wouldn't) exist if it weren't for anonymity.

    But... we all know this will never change. So I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, which is to avoid reading anything posted on the main page. Not because I'm offended, but because it's just a waste of time.

    Strangely, out of all the blogs, forums, news websites I visit, this is the only site that allows this type of behavior, and the only site with a reputation for this. On every single other website I visit, I usually enjoy going through the comments.

    All I can tell you about is that in my experience, whenever I see this website is mentioned in conversations or other blogs, the consensus is that this site is "where all the vicious anonymous people troll the articles" as opposed to "where people exchange records, tour info, news, amazing downloads, etc". Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 8 people who asked me Morrissey related questions and I simply said if they had joined the forums they would know. All of them said something like "ah, I can't deal with all those people talking shit about each other". None of them even knew there is a separate, moderated forum, where anonymous posting is not allowed.
     
  18. Flax

    Flax Active Member

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    Yes.
    [​IMG]

    The photo on my ID is more recent. I used to be a bit more skinny, even those I already had killer abs. Thank you.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. !Viva Hate!

    !Viva Hate! the queen of solo

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    Are you sure those are abs? It looks like something else to me...
     
  20. Flax

    Flax Active Member

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    Oh I know. That's what she said.
     
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