Andy Rourke and Johnny Marr today

[Vegan Cro Spirit .777]

Why would Morrissey be diplomatic in his autobiography, when it was written long after he had first started to loathe Mike? I don't know if and he and the other two wanted to get back into his band before the court case, but if I'd been in the greatest band ever then I would sure want to get back in. And as great as Viva Hate and Bona Drag are, does anyone think that Morrissey was headlining major US venues, selling out tickets in record time, and living in the Sunset Marquis by 1991 on the strength of his solo music alone? I don't think so.

because that how it was FFS
he was writing about a time before the 2 twats sued

they were TOO TALENTED to find regular work

of course Moz is known in the US venues based on his solo work. WTF??
90 percent of his songs on tour and his interviews are on the solo work which is highly successful
unlike LePep who cant gather 20 simpletons in the USA

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Why would Morrissey be diplomatic in his autobiography, when it was written long after he had first started to loathe Mike? I don't know if and he and the other two wanted to get back into his band before the court case, but if I'd been in the greatest band ever then I would sure want to get back in.

And as great as Viva Hate and Bona Drag are, does anyone think that Morrissey was headlining major US venues, selling out tickets in record time, and living in the Sunset Marquis by 1991 on the strength of his solo music alone? I don't think so.

To be fair, it was a combination of both.

The Smiths may have split, but there really is no ‘solo’ work, it’s ALL Morrissey, one continuous line of intriguing and original creation.


‘And you can tell I have never really loved
You can tell by the way I sleep all day

And all of my life no one gave me anything
No one has ever given me anything’

 

[j*e*t]

To be fair, it was a combination of both.

The Smiths may have split, but there really is no ‘solo’ work, it’s ALL Morrissey, one continuous line of intriguing and original creation.


‘And you can tell I have never really loved
You can tell by the way I sleep all day

And all of my life no one gave me anything
No one has ever given me anything’

For me, Morrissey is the greatest part of the Smiths, and it's no surprise that he was able to draw so much adulation as a solo artist long after the Smiths' split. I was just trying to see things from the other Smiths' point of view. If I'd been in their shoes I think I'd have sick with envy of Morrissey's new band, and apart from any availability issues, I think that in the early years after the Smiths' demise, it was so painful for Morrissey that he wanted to distance himself from all things Smiths - the music, the other members, even the crew. I feel sorry for those who were left behind as much as I feel for Morrissey losing Marr. But as much as Morrissey thought he'd got rid of the Smiths, and was achieving success on his own merits, I don't think the Smiths had really gone - they were still there in the hearts and minds of many of the fans who had loved the band.

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit .777]

For me, Morrissey is the greatest part of the Smiths, and it's no surprise that he was able to draw so much adulation as a solo artist long after the Smiths' split. I was just trying to see things from the other Smiths' point of view. If I'd been in their shoes I think I'd have sick with envy of Morrissey's new band, and apart from any availability issues, I think that in the early years after the Smiths' demise, it was so painful for Morrissey that he wanted to distance himself from all things Smiths - the music, the other members, even the crew. I feel sorry for those who were left behind as much as I feel for Morrissey losing Marr. But as much as Morrissey thought he'd got rid of the Smiths, and was achieving success on his own merits, I don't think the Smiths had really gone - they were still there in the hearts and minds of many of the fans who had loved the band.

Nobody was left behind they are just layabouts. wanting to be handed moola without breaking a sweat.
why didnt FH Mike and DH Andy join up with maybe the bald funny looking dude from James and start a
group?

they ll never go away, they are like skinny non fungus fungi.

Moz is not going to get them when he can get a better group.
Note their lifetime mate, the LePepe also gave them evil
despite everyone on his current Jr group being out of tune

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

For me, Morrissey is the greatest part of the Smiths,

I believe many would agree with you there, or not realize that that was the case for them also.

and it's no surprise that he was able to draw so much adulation as a solo artist long after the Smiths' split. I was just trying to see things from the other Smiths' point of view. If I'd been in their shoes I think I'd have sick with envy of Morrissey's new band, and apart from any availability issues, I think that in the early years after the Smiths' demise, it was so painful for Morrissey that he wanted to distance himself from all things Smiths - the music, the other members, even the crew. I feel sorry for those who were left behind as much as I feel for Morrissey losing Marr.

But as much as Morrissey thought he'd got rid of the Smiths, and was achieving success on his own merits, I don't think the Smiths had really gone - they were still there in the hearts and minds of many of the fans who had loved the band.

Morrissey’s contribution to the band was The Smiths. It wasn’t like The Smiths were some separate entity that did him a favor. It was his work then, as it is now, & all the way through that should be thanked for his success.

I don't think the Smiths had really gone - they were still there in the hearts and minds of many of the fans who had loved the band.

Yes, ‘still in the hearts and minds of many’ because it’s that voice that first drew them into The Smiths and it’s still that voice, regardless of collaborators, that keeps those fans entranced with every listen of his continuing work.

 

[Lujissey]

Because in the court case Joyce's argument was pretty much that Johnny and Morrissey had knowingly ripped him off. It called not only Morrissey's character and honesty into question, but also Johnny Marr's.

That is something that seems to be forgotten. It wasn't Joyce v Morrissey. It was Joyce v Morrissey and Marr.

Morrissey was always the outspoken, polarising figure, and remains so to this day. Marr was always the well respected nice guy. So when the court found in Joyce's favour, the newspapers saw it as 'evidence' that Morrissey must be a bad guy. But where was the criticism of Marr? Marr refuted Joyce's claims, just like Morrissey did. That's why Marr fought it and it went to court.

Marr may have chosen to quietly and reluctantly accept the court's verdict, instead of fighting it all the way like Morrissey did. But that doesn't mean he suddenly had an epiphany where he decided Joyce was right all along. Like Morrissey, Marr hasn't forgiven him.

Why would he want to reach out to somebody who took him to court for money that he (Marr) didn't think he deserved, calling his character into question in the process?

Absolutely!!! I had the same vision of those facts, so although I do not think it will happen, it is more likely that a reunion accepted Rourke but never M Joyce!! And if poor Moz as many times, came out badly, and Marr not so much but Marr is in the same position as Moz with respect to the traitor drummer

 

[Lujissey]

A one night reunion concert might be a let down, but a new batch of Morrissey/Marr tracks might be immortal . . .

This personally is what would mean the most to me.

Yes!!! But a reunion The Smiths, without Joyce ! ,would take us to the extreme!!!! It would be a cosmic energy impregnating our bodies unforgettable!!! A Moz Johnny reunion.... Would you imagine Johnny knocking on Moz's door and having D attend? and that Johnny asks him: hello is Moz? , and that Moz invites him to come and sit in bed to compose new songs !!!! it would be a gift from the Universe

 

[Redacted]

Why would Morrissey be diplomatic in his autobiography, when it was written long after he had first started to loathe Mike? I don't know if and he and the other two wanted to get back into his band before the court case, but if I'd been in the greatest band ever then I would sure want to get back in. And as great as Viva Hate and Bona Drag are, does anyone think that Morrissey was headlining major US venues, selling out tickets in record time, and living in the Sunset Marquis by 1991 on the strength of his solo music alone? I don't think so.

He was, his Kill Uncle tour in 1991 was huge here and he played very large venues and people were very pleased to hear the solo stuff. I know I went for the solo stuff.

 

[j*e*t]

Nobody was left behind they are just layabouts. wanting to be handed moola without breaking a sweat.
why didnt FH Mike and DH Andy join up with maybe the bald funny looking dude from James and start a
group?

they ll never go away, they are like skinny non fungus fungi.

Moz is not going to get them when he can get a better group.
Note their lifetime mate, the LePepe also gave them evil
despite everyone on his current Jr group being out of tune

OK, Vegan, I agree that Morrissey chooses not to have the ex-Smiths in his band. I commend your loyalty to Morrissey. If you could bear in mind that some of us here still love the Smiths' music, I would appreciate it. Please also feel free to criticize Marr's hair dye all you want.

 

[Redacted]

they were going to sit there without looking for work, hoping that Moz someday would up their dole?
why didnt they go pester their 'childhood mate', the truculent one>LePepe

Moz was being diplomatic. He couldnt continue to carry them specially since they were linked as 'mates' with
the LePepe, who by the way, ignored them just about all the time, for the so called 'studio sessions' he participated in,
gave them, his "MATES" the NO GO
they werent mates with Moz but with the evil one, LePep

so their position is that they have had no job in 40 yrs hoping that Moz gave them a job? stay jobless just in case?
even after suing Moz, Moz is expected to feed them and their families???

note how DH Andy went to that so called Crazy Face Saloona Factory, but was NOT
offered a job. Why not LePep, whats up? explain yourself.

I think you make a really good point here, Morrissey did offer them work and he tried to work with them. Marr never did. Marr, who rides the Smiths legacy but also wants to be seen as this avant garde creative (check all his poses, its like he's vogueing or something or he thinks he's Zoolander) cannot make up his mind about who he is. When he was in Electronic with Bernard Sumner, Bernard asked him if he could sound more like Johnny Marr, because he was being 'experimental' or something.

If you compare 1991 Morrissey's career to 1991 Johnny's career, Morrissey was doing a lot better. The Electronic album may have charted well in the UK, but not here in the US and they did not even tour on it, they had 2 dates opening for Depeche Mode. I think a lot of people bought that Electronic album based on what they thought it was going to be, not what is really was, I recall a lot of people being disappointed with it.
Morrissey crushed the 'super group' who also wrote a mean song about him , he had a huge tour here in the US, he must have made a ton of money.

Morrissey even gave Craig Gannon a choice after he filed a suit against him. He very calmly told him that he can work with him or sue him but they could not do both. I think post break up, Morrissey treated everyone better than Marr did, you are right,

 

[Anonymous]

Morrissey even gave Craig Gannon a choice after he filed a suit against him. He very calmly told him that he can work with him or sue him but they could not do both. I think post break up, Morrissey treated everyone better than Marr did, you are right,

I'm not sure about that - from where I stand Moz's offer of 'stop suing me and you can join my solo band' seems like a pretty cynical business move. Andy accepted the deal, and within a year Moz threw him under the bus anyway. I expect he's regretted that decision ever since.

 

[The.Truth.]

The Electronic album had videos played on MTV and singles getting airplay so I don't think people were surprised at what they got. If they thought it was going to be like The Smiths I could see that but I think New Order fans were very happy with it. I think it's a classic and definitely the best thing I've heard from Marr since The Smiths. He was good with Talking Heads, Pet Shop Boys and others but it's difficult to know how large a role he played in what he did in any of these post-Smiths projects, really.
I just wanted to say it was a big hit in the US. Not just the record but the singles and remixes were all readily available in the stores. It seemed to me to be more popular than recent New Order but some of that was timing. That music was getting a big push at the time with the success of Depeche Mode.
It was competing against Morrissey at probably his peak level of US success though so in that way it might seem to have been less successful.

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit .777]

OK, Vegan, I agree that Morrissey chooses not to have the ex-Smiths in his band. I commend your loyalty to Morrissey. If you could bear in mind that some of us here still love the Smiths' music, I would appreciate it. Please also feel free to criticize Marr's hair dye all you want.

if it were dye he would touch his hair but he doesnt because it may slide to the side

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit .777]

I think you make a really good point here, Morrissey did offer them work and he tried to work with them. Marr never did. Marr, who rides the Smiths legacy but also wants to be seen as this avant garde creative (check all his poses, its like he's vogueing or something or he thinks he's Zoolander) cannot make up his mind about who he is. When he was in Electronic with Bernard Sumner, Bernard asked him if he could sound more like Johnny Marr, because he was being 'experimental' or something.

If you compare 1991 Morrissey's career to 1991 Johnny's career, Morrissey was doing a lot better. The Electronic album may have charted well in the UK, but not here in the US and they did not even tour on it, they had 2 dates opening for Depeche Mode. I think a lot of people bought that Electronic album based on what they thought it was going to be, not what is really was, I recall a lot of people being disappointed with it.
Morrissey crushed the 'super group' who also wrote a mean song about him , he had a huge tour here in the US, he must have made a ton of money.

Morrissey even gave Craig Gannon a choice after he filed a suit against him. He very calmly told him that he can work with him or sue him but they could not do both. I think post break up, Morrissey treated everyone better than Marr did, you are right,

those sucky electronic albums were unknown in the USA and the rest of the world only in the UK it sold because of that annoying Bernard, but otherwise it was bust. if it was electronic with only LePep he would have sold
his customary 1000 units.
they did OPENING sets AGAIN in the USA and only 2 FFS a bust all around
may have been once on that MTV at 5 am but otherwise unseen there too.

Moz was killing it making huge tours
LePepe is just a jealous twerp that lives in a fantasy world thinking he is a superstar.
he plays tiny gigs in the UK and cant gather 20 simpletons elsewhere in the world when
he tries the mini gigs they are cancelled due to 'visa problems'

DH Any was right there at the dumb 'Crazy Face Saloona' was he offered a job by
Pep? Nada zilch. again. he supposedly has a saloona where all type of recording
is going on digging deep into his sucy music
hes having a great tour doing opening sets for blondie and killers
why not hire DH Andy to complement Jr, who is also without a job.

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit .777]

The Electronic album had videos played on MTV and singles getting airplay so I don't think people were surprised at what they got. If they thought it was going to be like The Smiths I could see that but I think New Order fans were very happy with it. I think it's a classic and definitely the best thing I've heard from Marr since The Smiths. He was good with Talking Heads, Pet Shop Boys and others but it's difficult to know how large a role he played in what he did in any of these post-Smiths projects, really.
I just wanted to say it was a big hit in the US. Not just the record but the singles and remixes were all readily available in the stores. It seemed to me to be more popular than recent New Order but some of that was timing. That music was getting a big push at the time with the success of Depeche Mode.
It was competing against Morrissey at probably his peak level of US success though so in that way it might seem to have been less successful.

none of that sucy music were hits FFS
FC i think you may have had mexican hallucinations when you saw the sucy group on MTV

 

[Dean B]

View attachment 79419

An elderly bassist and a delusional crybaby walk into a bar.....to complain about Morrissey to any members of the press within earshot.

 

[Redacted]

those sucky electronic albums were unknown in the USA and the rest of the world only in the UK it sold because of that annoying Bernard, but otherwise it was bust. if it was electronic with only LePep he would have sold
his customary 1000 units.
they did OPENING sets AGAIN in the USA and only 2 FFS a bust all around
may have been once on that MTV at 5 am but otherwise unseen there too.

Moz was killing it making huge tours
LePepe is just a jealous twerp that lives in a fantasy world thinking he is a superstar.
he plays tiny gigs in the UK and cant gather 20 simpletons elsewhere in the world when
he tries the mini gigs they are cancelled due to 'visa problems'

DH Any was right there at the dumb 'Crazy Face Saloona' was he offered a job by
Pep? Nada zilch. again. he supposedly has a saloona where all type of recording
is going on digging deep into his sucy music
hes having a great tour doing opening sets for blondie and killers
why not hire DH Andy to complement Jr, who is also without a job.

Yes, I really don't remember it getting a lot of airplay or MTV play and if it was as popular as some people claim, there would have been a tour, and there was not.

Morrissey was still doing much better as a solo act than these three well known musicians in a 'super group' and he still does very well here over 30 years later while Johnny languishes in small clubs and now has to be an opening act to get an audience over 1000.

The expectations were so high because of who were in it. and that is the general conversation that takes place around this album. People bought it hearing 1 song or maybe not hearing any of it at all, just based on the musicians and were very underwhelmed, I know I was, I find most of it unlistenable.

It was definitely not better than New Order as some might claim and I don't know any New Order fans who actually like it either.

Johnny has basically tried everything since his hasty split from Morrissey and still can't make much of himself. He even moved to the US and lived in a tiny shoebox like the little LePepe he is and that didn't work out either. He still owns that house in Portland, Oregon so I wonder if he's going to give it a try here again, but he's not getting any younger and there is no room for a Crazy Face Saloona part Deux there.

 

[Surface]

Yes, I really don't remember it getting a lot of airplay or MTV play and if it was as popular as some people claim, there would have been a tour, and there was not.

Morrissey was still doing much better as a solo act than these three well known musicians in a 'super group' and he still does very well here over 30 years later while Johnny languishes in small clubs and now has to be an opening act to get an audience over 1000.

The expectations were so high because of who were in it. and that is the general conversation that takes place around this album. People bought it hearing 1 song or maybe not hearing any of it at all, just based on the musicians and were very underwhelmed, I know I was, I find most of it unlistenable.

It was definitely not better than New Order as some might claim and I don't know any New Order fans who actually like it either.

Johnny has basically tried everything since his hastly split from Morrissey and still can't make much of himself. He even moved to the US and lived in a tiny shoebox like the little LePepe he is and that didn't work out either. He still owns that house in Portland, Oregon so I wonder if he's going to give it a try here again, but he's not getting any younger and there is no room for a Crazy Face Saloona part Deux there.

Your lack of knowledge about The Smiths/Morrissey/Marr or anything to do with music is making me think you're actually Vegan Cro.

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

I'm not sure about that - from where I stand Moz's offer of 'stop suing me and you can join my solo band' seems like a pretty cynical business move. Andy accepted the deal, and within a year Moz threw him under the bus anyway. I expect he's regretted that decision ever since.

They aren't very clever.. So no point in engaging. ...I actually thought, they were about 16. Then I read they went to the Kill Uncle tour,
Imagine being,at least, in your 40s, and being that dim

You get ones like Ketamine, who are flakes but one gets the impression they know they are being daft, deep down
I get the impression with this person, they actually believe it.


Im not even on here, that much but I've been trying to find an ignore button

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

They aren't very clever.. So no point in engaging. ...I actually thought, they were about 16. Then I read they went to the Kill Uncle tour,
Imagine being,at least, in your 40s, and being that dim

You get ones like Ketamine, who are flakes but one gets the impression they know they are being daft, deep down
I get the impression with this person, they actually believe it.

Im not even on here, that much but I've been trying to find an ignore button

Maybe you should @ Davidt or FWD to help you find the ignore button.

You verbose arse biscuit!