An REM thread for r.e.m. stuff

Hey everyone! I have MAJOR new information to my "Radio Free Europe" comparison....

I got in touch with Chris Hartstonge that runs the REM Timeline to ask what he thought about all the different versions of RFE and the "stories" behind them.
I didn't know I'd hit a goldmine....
He said he is currently working with R.E.M. on archival projects!! He actually gets to go to Athens and go in the climate controlled VAULT of master tapes!! So when he says things like "this tape resides in the archives and is labeled xxxx" he means he's physically seen and listened to it! Crazy!

Here's what he had to say after reading my "Radio Free Europe" comparison....


This topic is currently relevant as we (the band) are looking at the early recordings for future releases.
We have done quite a bit of research into the early recordings and after going through the REM archives & from earlier discussions with Mitch Easter, the following facts will put all the rumours to rest. I have read what you have written which is interesting.

As we know:
On 15 Apr 1981 the band recorded Radio Free Europe, Sitting Still & White Tornado - & was mixed the next day – which turned into the demo Cassette Set that the band sent out. For simplification we will call this 1st mix a ‘Monitor Mix’.
The Cassette Set recordings were made available in 2011, which came from my own original Cassette Set. The master tapes from this mix reside in the REM archives – at that point, ‘White Tornado’ was titled ‘Stronger Than Dirt’.

On 24 May 1981 – the band went back to Drive-In Studio with Johnny Hibbert, & recorded overdubs for RFE & SS and remixed the songs from the April masters. This mix is the Johnny Hibbert mix that was used on the released Hib-Tone Single. This mix also currently resides in the REM archives, plainly stating that it was the Hibbert mix – master mix for the Hib-Tone Single. – So this is the 2nd Mix – the Johnny Hibbert Mix. On the master tape box – plainly states ‘DNU’ – DO NOT USE.

The band were not happy with this mix, & Mitch Easter went away & remixed from the same masters - & this was done on 2-3 June 1981 according to the REM archives, & as I referenced to an interview done with Mitch Easter above, he made it clear that the Johnny Hibbert Mix was lacking in the high end, & quite muddy, & he re EQ’d, & made some other mixing adjustments which the band favoured. This is the 3rd mix – Mitch Easter’s Mix. Mitch also said that the equipment that they had for mixing was quite limited, so it was simply no more than a simple EQ over Johnny Hibbert’smix.

The masters for this 3rd mix also reside in the REM archives & have some notes with this particular master tape which will make other things clearer.

Then later in June 1981 the band & Hibbert took both mixes (the 2nd Hibbert Mix & 3rd Mitch Easter Mix) to Bombay Studios to decide which mix to go with, & as we know, Hibbert won out & the 2nd mix was used on the single. Mitch still has in his possession a 2 track safety from the songs copied when they went through the mixes that day.

So at the end we have 3 mixes:
1st Mix – Cassette Set ‘Monitor Mix’
2nd Mix – Johnny Hibbert Mix
3rd Mix – Mitch Easter Mix

The 2nd mix was used for BOTH pressings of the Hib-Tone single – we have compared transfers of both pressings & they are the same mix.

In 1988, as we know Eponymous was released, which uses Mitch Easter’s 3rd Mix – the master safety tape which they used for the compilation (which also resides in the REM archive), has descriptions of each individual song & the master tape they were taken from, & Radio Free Europe was taken from the Mitch Easter mix master tape. Also contained within the Mitch Easter Mix Master Tape is the reference to when they were used again for the ‘And I Feel Fine’ compilation in 2006 along with ‘Sitting Still’.

If you compare the Eponymous & ‘And I Feel Fine’ Radio Free Europe ‘Hib Tone’ session recordings – they are identical – same mix – the ‘And I Feel Fine’ one has been mastered louder. Both from Mitch Easter’s Mix.

So from the tapes in the REM Archives it is very clear what mixes have been used & for what releases, which was backed up from Mitch Easter’s interview testimony.

We made digital transfers from both 1st & 2nd pressings to compare the original Hib-Tone Single to the Mitch Easter Mix used on ‘Eponymous’ & ‘And I Feel Fine’, & they back up Mitch’s answers at the time.

The Hib-Tone Single lacks a lot in the high end & is quite muddy mix wise – the drums sound tbh like a ‘sack of potatoes’, & comparing to Mitch’s 3rd Mix – he has brought back a lot of the high end, the drums sound more clearer, better spatial mix between the instruments & one other difference, is the ‘noise’ that Mitch inserted at the beginning of RFE – on Johnny Hibbert’s Mix, this starts mainly on the right channel, whereas on Mitch’s Eponymous Mix, it starts more from the middle, & has some rumble before the song kicks in, which the Hibbert Mix does not have. The EQ issues are more heightened when you compare Hibbert’s & Easters Mixes for ‘Sitting Still’.




So, there we have it I guess!
The 1st & 2nd pressings of the HibTone RFE are identical. I was unsure of that till now.
Also, the HibTone IS Hibbert's mix and Eponymus REALLY IS Easter's mix as is stated everywhere I've ever read. I'm actually glad all of that isn't wrong!!
I was originally listening for obvious "differences" in the two. Like a different echo/reverb here, or a variance in a note or drumbeat there....
Turns out Easter had really "limited" (crappy?) equipment and ONLY tweaked the EQ levels in places. How lame...
How could Peter Buck (and everyone else for that matter all along the way) make SUCH A BIG DEAL over "how different" they sound and how much better the Easter mix is??!?!?

Going back, now knowing what exactly I'm listening for, I agree the Eponymous (Easter) version is "brighter" sounding and drums are "cleaner" sounding. It just has more "fidelity". I guess I just assumed that was due to it being mastered for CD for the Eponymius release.... but apparently that's what Mitch Easter did back in June '81.

Hope this helps! It finally did for me!!
 
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gargumma

Active Member
Hey everyone! I have MAJOR new information to my "Radio Free Europe" comparison....
That was pretty elucidating, man, thanks!

So most of us never heard Hibbert's version. The one used everywhere is Easter's. I hope they re-release Hibbert's version one day just for us diehards. Maybe some sort of RFE EP with all existing versions... and a new one recorded with Bill back on drums? :rolleyes:
 

robert

Same old suit since 1962
Here it is, my good man:
Thanks for this! I tried to purchase on the day of release but only 1 track was available. Went back the next day and nothing was up.
 

gargumma

Active Member
Hey everyone! I have MAJOR new information to my "Radio Free Europe" comparison....
Just a couple of things about all this, as I finally have the time to compare everything:

- According to the Timeline, Chris meant 15 April 1981 when he says 15 May. Otherwise, it wouldn't make much sense. He later mentions the April masters.
- I wonder why the hell everyone decided for Hibbert's version, which they seemed to hate, when they already had Mitch Easter's version available. Was it really everyone's decision, or did the "HIB" in HibTone speak louder?
- Why did Mitch Easter remix the single in the first place, even before release, and then was disfavored anyway?
 
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S

Soundofthenorth2020

Guest
Wow amazing that this thread is still going! Nice one ladies, gents and neutrals!

Regarding Murmur I.R.S. Years tracks 9-9, Gardening At Night Live. These are not the versions from DGBTR 12inch. The vinyl single uses mono recordings from 'The Eldorado' Paris France on Good Friday 20 April 1984. Special thanks to R.T.L. Radio Broadcasting Service.
The versions on the IRS years appears to use tracks from the Boston show, 13 July 1983. Probably because they couldn't get permission for the original tracks. Plus the originals both quickly fade out on the vinyl.
These weren't the only tracks to be lost over the years. Voice Of Harold vinyl version has an extra bit of studio at the start.
Wendell Gee single uses a longer fade out, which can be found on the cdm austria cd of the fables album. Wendell's b-sides Ages Of You & Burning Down are both different recordings found on the Dead Letter Office. Ages Of You is the live life compilation version complete with handclaps but Burning Down is unique to the release. I prefer both these versions to dead letters offerings.
Also king of the road/walters theme on cd has been plagued with an editing error for years in comparison to the original vinyl pressing. Dig out your so central rain give it a spin and compare ;)
 

cjr67

Member
Hey everyone! I have MAJOR new information to my "Radio Free Europe" comparison....

I got in touch with Chris Hartstonge that runs the REM Timeline to ask what he thought about all the different versions of RFE and the "stories" behind them.
I didn't know I'd hit a goldmine....
He said he is currently working with R.E.M. on archival projects!! He actually gets to go to Athens and go in the climate controlled VAULT of master tapes!! So when he says things like "this tape resides in the archives and is labeled xxxx" he means he's physically seen and listened to it! Crazy!
Fantastic that Chris is working on the archive projects!
 
Just a couple of things about all this, as I finally have the time to compare everything:

- According to the Timeline, Chris meant 15 April 1981 when he says 15 May. Otherwise, it wouldn't make much sense. He later mentions the April masters.
I went back and edited this to APRIL in my post. I agree Chris misspoke/mistyped.


- I wonder why the hell everyone decided for Hibbert's version, which they seemed to hate, when they already had Mitch Easter's version available. Was it really everyone's decision, or did the "HIB" in HibTone speak louder?
That's what all the stories I've ever read have made it out to sound like. Johnny Hibbert had FINAL say since he was footing the bill for the whole thing. I don't think Easter's mix was disfavored by the band at all. I think that is the one they wanted to use! Hibbert just overrode them.
 
These weren't the only tracks to be lost over the years. Voice Of Harold vinyl version has an extra bit of studio at the start.
Voice of Harold from WHAT vinyl?
Dead Letter Office?
Or UK/Holland So. Central Rain 12"?

Wendell's b-sides Ages Of You & Burning Down are both different recordings found on the Dead Letter Office. Ages Of You is the live life compilation version complete with handclaps but Burning Down is unique to the release. I prefer both these versions to dead letters offerings.
I do not have a vinyl Wendell Gee with these two b-sides. My 12" UK vinyl is backed with Crazy & Driver 8 (live). I DO however have the Live For Life on vinyl, so I have the Ages Of You with handclaps. I would love to hear the Burning Down version you mention though!
Any chance of an upload??

Also king of the road/walters theme on cd has been plagued with an editing error for years in comparison to the original vinyl pressing. Dig out your so central rain give it a spin and compare ;)
I only have the UK 12" of So. Central Rain that is backed with Voice Of Harold & Pale Blue Eyes. I do NOT have the 7" you mention that has the different King Of The Road / Walters Theme...
Any chance on an upload of that b side??
 
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eddiemonsoon

New Member
R.E.M.
October 2, 1986
EMU Ballroom
University of Oregon
Eugene, Oregon

WG Master Recording / JEMS 2020 transfer + remaster

Recording gear: 929 stereo mic > Sony D-6

JEMS 2020 Transfer: WG Maxell XL-II S master cassettes > Nakamichi CR-7A azimuth-adjusted playback > Sound Devices USBPre2 > Audacity 2.4.2 (24/96 capture to .wav) > iZotope RX and Ozone > 16/44 resample FLAC > tracking and finishing with Audacity and TLH

Musicians:

Bill Berry (drums, vocals)
Peter Buck (guitar)
Mike Mills (bass, vocals)
Michael Stipe (lead vocals, harmonica)

With Buren Fowler (guitar)

01_These Days
02_Harborcoat
03_Pilgrimage
04_The One I Love
05_Shaking Through
06_Feeling Gravity’s Pull
07_Driver 8
08_Underneath the Bunker
09_The Flowers of Guatemala
10_I Believe
11_Swan Swan H
12_Superman
13_Can't Get There From Here
14_Old Man Kensey
15_Pretty Persuasion
16_Auctioneer (Another Engine)
17_Little America
18_Second Guessing
19_Fall on Me
20_Paint It Black
21_Sweet Jane
22_Strange
23_Harpers
24_Begin the Begin
25_Cuyahoga
26_Toys in the Attic
27_Funtime

By dint of organic growth and a more accessible sound, 1986 found R.E.M. gaining in popularity. Just a year before, I saw them at the Greek Theatre in Berkeley; now, in a stroke of luck, they played in a university ballroom that held perhaps a tenth as many people. I was there, and I should have taped it. Our longtime ally WG was there too, and he did.

This file set features a fresh, azimuth-adjusted playback and transfer of his master tapes. With a new sonic once-over, this version serves as a material upgrade. Save for bits missing from two songs (“These Days,” “I Believe”) and another (“Second Guessing”) marred due to tape misalignment, the capture is terrific.

Like other '86 recordings, October 2 is a helping of high-grade, mission-critical stuff. It was a great rock show, with an edgy vibe that occasionally felt spooky. A couple of times, it felt dangerous: I've never seen a performer put himself out there the way Michael Stipe did in Eugene.

At the first chorus of “The One I Love” — in 1986, more of a deep-seated, primal exhortation than the single-word refrain to a Top 10 single, as it would be just a year later — Stipe grabbed the mic stand and thrashed: in that instant, I thought that he'd been electrocuted. It was a jolt that ran through the set and a moment that haunts me today. In the R.E.M. shows I saw after Eugene, nothing like that ever recurred. (Stipe alluded to some of this the next night, aware that he may have frightened people in Eugene.)

Over the years, I've been wary about listening to this: it's a fine document, but could anything recreate this gig the way I remember it? What I hear now is an instance of a young band playing exceptionally well. The can't-miss setlist — most of Lifes Rich Pageant, and a trove of covers that was as realized as it was imaginative — is part of the story, too. The band is in great form, and despite their repeated requests for everyone to move back, good humor abounds.

No complete Pageantry tour soundboard recording has ever circulated, and I’d wager that no ’86 date was professionally recorded to multi-track. Like Bruce Springsteen’s 1977 tour, terrific audience recordings are the rule, and from places one might not expect. Whatever search happened at the EMU was likely for something other than taping equipment.

Needless to say, I regret not taping this show. AMorg and I stood fairly close to the stage; though jostling persisted throughout, the setting was suitably dark and the floor was spacious enough (there were no seats) to remain in line with the PA.

BK provides WG’s recording — a solid one in the first place — with a very nice enhancement. (BK ran point on JEMS masters in ’86 for R.E.M. shows in Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver, BC; Jared did the honors in Santa Barbara and Oakland — collect ’em all!)

If I could pick a point in time for the musical wayback machine to transport me, right up there with The Who in 1970, The Grateful Dead in 1977, and Bruce Springsteen in Los Angeles in 1981, I’d strongly consider October 2, 1986. With a recorder (and a camera). But of course, I was there already.

Thanks again to WG and BK.

Share it freely, and for free!

- slipkid68


 

jack0508

Junior Member
R.E.M.
October 2, 1986
EMU Ballroom
University of Oregon
Eugene, Oregon

WG Master Recording / JEMS 2020 transfer + remaster

Recording gear: 929 stereo mic > Sony D-6

JEMS 2020 Transfer: WG Maxell XL-II S master cassettes > Nakamichi CR-7A azimuth-adjusted playback > Sound Devices USBPre2 > Audacity 2.4.2 (24/96 capture to .wav) > iZotope RX and Ozone > 16/44 resample FLAC > tracking and finishing with Audacity and TLH

Musicians:

Bill Berry (drums, vocals)
Peter Buck (guitar)
Mike Mills (bass, vocals)
Michael Stipe (lead vocals, harmonica)

With Buren Fowler (guitar)

01_These Days
02_Harborcoat
03_Pilgrimage
04_The One I Love
05_Shaking Through
06_Feeling Gravity’s Pull
07_Driver 8
08_Underneath the Bunker
09_The Flowers of Guatemala
10_I Believe
11_Swan Swan H
12_Superman
13_Can't Get There From Here
14_Old Man Kensey
15_Pretty Persuasion
16_Auctioneer (Another Engine)
17_Little America
18_Second Guessing
19_Fall on Me
20_Paint It Black
21_Sweet Jane
22_Strange
23_Harpers
24_Begin the Begin
25_Cuyahoga
26_Toys in the Attic
27_Funtime

By dint of organic growth and a more accessible sound, 1986 found R.E.M. gaining in popularity. Just a year before, I saw them at the Greek Theatre in Berkeley; now, in a stroke of luck, they played in a university ballroom that held perhaps a tenth as many people. I was there, and I should have taped it. Our longtime ally WG was there too, and he did.

This file set features a fresh, azimuth-adjusted playback and transfer of his master tapes. With a new sonic once-over, this version serves as a material upgrade. Save for bits missing from two songs (“These Days,” “I Believe”) and another (“Second Guessing”) marred due to tape misalignment, the capture is terrific.

Like other '86 recordings, October 2 is a helping of high-grade, mission-critical stuff. It was a great rock show, with an edgy vibe that occasionally felt spooky. A couple of times, it felt dangerous: I've never seen a performer put himself out there the way Michael Stipe did in Eugene.

At the first chorus of “The One I Love” — in 1986, more of a deep-seated, primal exhortation than the single-word refrain to a Top 10 single, as it would be just a year later — Stipe grabbed the mic stand and thrashed: in that instant, I thought that he'd been electrocuted. It was a jolt that ran through the set and a moment that haunts me today. In the R.E.M. shows I saw after Eugene, nothing like that ever recurred. (Stipe alluded to some of this the next night, aware that he may have frightened people in Eugene.)

Over the years, I've been wary about listening to this: it's a fine document, but could anything recreate this gig the way I remember it? What I hear now is an instance of a young band playing exceptionally well. The can't-miss setlist — most of Lifes Rich Pageant, and a trove of covers that was as realized as it was imaginative — is part of the story, too. The band is in great form, and despite their repeated requests for everyone to move back, good humor abounds.

No complete Pageantry tour soundboard recording has ever circulated, and I’d wager that no ’86 date was professionally recorded to multi-track. Like Bruce Springsteen’s 1977 tour, terrific audience recordings are the rule, and from places one might not expect. Whatever search happened at the EMU was likely for something other than taping equipment.

Needless to say, I regret not taping this show. AMorg and I stood fairly close to the stage; though jostling persisted throughout, the setting was suitably dark and the floor was spacious enough (there were no seats) to remain in line with the PA.

BK provides WG’s recording — a solid one in the first place — with a very nice enhancement. (BK ran point on JEMS masters in ’86 for R.E.M. shows in Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver, BC; Jared did the honors in Santa Barbara and Oakland — collect ’em all!)

If I could pick a point in time for the musical wayback machine to transport me, right up there with The Who in 1970, The Grateful Dead in 1977, and Bruce Springsteen in Los Angeles in 1981, I’d strongly consider October 2, 1986. With a recorder (and a camera). But of course, I was there already.

Thanks again to WG and BK.

Share it freely, and for free!

- slipkid68




Thanks a lot!!

Any show from that tour is highly appreciated
 
O

OnTheWeekend

Guest
I have a few more CD's coming, if you need anything, let me know and I will post them for you.

Gentle on My Mind (Live 06/12/2001) from KCRW Sounds Eclectic: The Covers Project
Bad Day (Radio Edit) from Bad Day Promo
Suspicion (Radio Edit) from Suspicion Promo (CD)
Bittersweet Me (Memphis Soundcheck 11-07-1995) from The '97 Brit Awards

Also, if anyone has these, I would appreciate it.

Bad Day (Live 2003) from Austin City Limits Music Festival: 2003
Boy In The Well (Live London Sept 2004) from Uncut Magazine
Daysleeper (Single Edit)
I've Been High from KFOG 104.5 - 97.7 Live from the Archives 9

Thanks!
I would like a copy of Gentle on My Mind (Live 06/12/2001) from KCRW Sounds Eclectic: The Covers Project.
 

OnTheWeekend

New Member
I'm looking for these R.E.M. shows if anyone has any of these dates let me know thanks.


1.30.1981
2.5.1981
10.8.1981

10.9.1982

1.12.1983
5.22.1983

3.23.1984
7.25.1984
9.10.1984
10.6.1984
10.16.1984
10.17.1984
11.17.1984
11.24.1984

2.12.1985
7.29.1985
10.10.1985
4.30.1985
5.2.1985

6.29.1989
9.27.1989

4.10.1991
6.15.1991 complete version

1.31.1992

1.14.1995
1.18.1995
9.15.1995
10.17.1995
10.20.1995
10.31.1995
11.4.1995
11.12.1995
11.15.1995

7.26.1996

5.21.2001
6.1.2001
6.8.2001

2.14.2002

10.3.2003
10.4.2003
 

Skylarker

Active Member
R.E.M.
October 2, 1986
EMU Ballroom
University of Oregon
Eugene, Oregon

WG Master Recording / JEMS 2020 transfer + remaster

Recording gear: 929 stereo mic > Sony D-6

JEMS 2020 Transfer: WG Maxell XL-II S master cassettes > Nakamichi CR-7A azimuth-adjusted playback > Sound Devices USBPre2 > Audacity 2.4.2 (24/96 capture to .wav) > iZotope RX and Ozone > 16/44 resample FLAC > tracking and finishing with Audacity and TLH

Musicians:

Bill Berry (drums, vocals)
Peter Buck (guitar)
Mike Mills (bass, vocals)
Michael Stipe (lead vocals, harmonica)

With Buren Fowler (guitar)

01_These Days
02_Harborcoat
03_Pilgrimage
04_The One I Love
05_Shaking Through
06_Feeling Gravity’s Pull
07_Driver 8
08_Underneath the Bunker
09_The Flowers of Guatemala
10_I Believe
11_Swan Swan H
12_Superman
13_Can't Get There From Here
14_Old Man Kensey
15_Pretty Persuasion
16_Auctioneer (Another Engine)
17_Little America
18_Second Guessing
19_Fall on Me
20_Paint It Black
21_Sweet Jane
22_Strange
23_Harpers
24_Begin the Begin
25_Cuyahoga
26_Toys in the Attic
27_Funtime

By dint of organic growth and a more accessible sound, 1986 found R.E.M. gaining in popularity. Just a year before, I saw them at the Greek Theatre in Berkeley; now, in a stroke of luck, they played in a university ballroom that held perhaps a tenth as many people. I was there, and I should have taped it. Our longtime ally WG was there too, and he did.

This file set features a fresh, azimuth-adjusted playback and transfer of his master tapes. With a new sonic once-over, this version serves as a material upgrade. Save for bits missing from two songs (“These Days,” “I Believe”) and another (“Second Guessing”) marred due to tape misalignment, the capture is terrific.

Like other '86 recordings, October 2 is a helping of high-grade, mission-critical stuff. It was a great rock show, with an edgy vibe that occasionally felt spooky. A couple of times, it felt dangerous: I've never seen a performer put himself out there the way Michael Stipe did in Eugene.

At the first chorus of “The One I Love” — in 1986, more of a deep-seated, primal exhortation than the single-word refrain to a Top 10 single, as it would be just a year later — Stipe grabbed the mic stand and thrashed: in that instant, I thought that he'd been electrocuted. It was a jolt that ran through the set and a moment that haunts me today. In the R.E.M. shows I saw after Eugene, nothing like that ever recurred. (Stipe alluded to some of this the next night, aware that he may have frightened people in Eugene.)

Over the years, I've been wary about listening to this: it's a fine document, but could anything recreate this gig the way I remember it? What I hear now is an instance of a young band playing exceptionally well. The can't-miss setlist — most of Lifes Rich Pageant, and a trove of covers that was as realized as it was imaginative — is part of the story, too. The band is in great form, and despite their repeated requests for everyone to move back, good humor abounds.

No complete Pageantry tour soundboard recording has ever circulated, and I’d wager that no ’86 date was professionally recorded to multi-track. Like Bruce Springsteen’s 1977 tour, terrific audience recordings are the rule, and from places one might not expect. Whatever search happened at the EMU was likely for something other than taping equipment.

Needless to say, I regret not taping this show. AMorg and I stood fairly close to the stage; though jostling persisted throughout, the setting was suitably dark and the floor was spacious enough (there were no seats) to remain in line with the PA.

BK provides WG’s recording — a solid one in the first place — with a very nice enhancement. (BK ran point on JEMS masters in ’86 for R.E.M. shows in Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver, BC; Jared did the honors in Santa Barbara and Oakland — collect ’em all!)

If I could pick a point in time for the musical wayback machine to transport me, right up there with The Who in 1970, The Grateful Dead in 1977, and Bruce Springsteen in Los Angeles in 1981, I’d strongly consider October 2, 1986. With a recorder (and a camera). But of course, I was there already.

Thanks again to WG and BK.

Share it freely, and for free!

- slipkid68


Thanks man; very cool.
 

gargumma

Active Member
I see no reason to abandon this one, tbh. They are different forums with different intentions and rules. The action there is heavily spread along topics; here, it is all centralized on this page. There, official material is not allowed. Here, we can even trade officially released stuff. Amongst other things.
 
I see no reason to abandon this one, tbh. They are different forums with different intentions and rules. The action there is heavily spread along topics; here, it is all centralized on this page. There, official material is not allowed. Here, we can even trade officially released stuff. Amongst other things.
Sounds good to me!
 
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