Alain's recollections of "Our Frank"

UPDATE July 31: From Alain's Facebook:

6 months before I joined Morrissey I would see the poster for Our Frank everywhere. I walked in a pub or in a restaurant I would hear Suedehead. Turn on the radio Our Frank. I loved this song mainly because of the outro lyrics. Somebody please stop me from thinking all the time. I went to a careers office they asked me what I wanted to be. I said I want to be a rock star, well of course the guy said I can't help with that i.e. dream on pal. Quite rightly so. I was tired of dead end hard working jobs. All the careers opportunities office could help me with is cleaning up Wembley Stadium. I was depressed out of my mind. I couldn't drink my pain or drug my pain away thankfully I'm not like that. I wished I didn't think so deeply but I do and that song epitomized exactly how I felt about life. Why can't I be shallow. I went for a walk in a really off the beaten park, on the ground below me someone had written out Morrissey set in concrete. It was crazy it was like an omen for what was ahead. Now back to this video. I never saw this as I don't think it ever got released and I'm glad because these type of Skinheads were really bad news back in the late 80's. in fact I don't like this video because of the skinheads in it. The amount of times I had to run for having a quiff from 5 or 6 skinheads was comical. In the 80's in London it was tribal and rough. You have no idea. My friend and I would be walking along Finchley Rd, a bus full of Everton supporters started flipping us off whilst driving past us so of course we flipped them back. Well the bus parked and out came running 50 mob of football hooligans wanting to kill us and boy did we run lol. Anyway I love the lyrical couplet in this song Our Frank you're frankly vulgar in the red pullover, such a fantastic sound a like lyrical couplet. It's a shame we, Gaz,Boz,Spen and I never got a chance to work with Clive Langer or Stephen Street. I thought Stephen did a marvelous job with Morrissey and The Smiths. Our Frank is a brilliant tune and song and lyrically it really spoke volumes to me and at that time, too many Universal things were pointing me towards Morrissey, so that is why it's my favorite song. I also used to love playing this live even though we would execute it better now. Somebody please stop me from thinking all the time.

 

[Anonymous]

They're half brothers, and Solomon stuck around when Matt decided to leave the band in 2012.

But Moz, to this day, never said anything bad about him. Even during the time when he was gone.

"Our little covered wagon has lost drummer Matt Walker, who was eager to bring his term to an end. No bargainings could persuade him to stay, and his interest drew its last breath at Stockton. Behind the kit, Matt was a greyhound unleashed, and his great work on Years of refusal will always and forever speak up in his favor. His exit is sad, but he had no wish to continue, and a branch falls away."

 

[Anonymous]

I prefer kill uncle to about half of morrissey a solo albums. The production is weak, but the songs have a smiths like jangle and playfulness to them. Our frank is a great song.

 

[Sidnettle]

One paragraph better than the whole of Set the Boy Free?

 

[Sidnettle]

I always thought the criticism against Dagenham Dave/Roy's Keen/Papa Jacks/He Crieds/etc were the dodgy lyrics, not the melodies.

Both. The music is shite on those tracks, with maybe Roy's Keen not as bad as the others?

 

[Anonymous]

I wish Moz would welcome him back into the band. In my opinion, no one backs up M's vocals so beautifully as Alain. Their voices work far too well together.

Wasn't alain the one who left? Anyways, i agree with you. JT is a crappy guitarist.

 

[Southport Grandma]

UPDATE July 31: From Alain's Facebook:

6 months before I joined Morrissey I would see the poster for Our Frank everywhere. I walked in a pub or in a restaurant I would hear Suedehead. Turn on the radio Our Frank. I loved this song mainly because of the outro lyrics. Somebody please stop me from thinking all the time. I went to a careers office they asked me what I wanted to be. I said I want to be a rock star, well of course the guy said I can't help with that i.e. dream on pal. Quite rightly so. I was tired of dead end hard working jobs. All the careers opportunities office could help me with is cleaning up Wembley Stadium. I was depressed out of my mind. I couldn't drink my pain or drug my pain away thankfully I'm not like that. I wished I didn't think so deeply but I do and that song epitomized exactly how I felt about life. Why can't I be shallow. I went for a walk in a really off the beaten park, on the ground below me someone had written out Morrissey set in concrete. It was crazy it was like an omen for what was ahead. Now back to this video. I never saw this as I don't think it ever got released and I'm glad because these type of Skinheads were really bad news back in the late 80's. in fact I don't like this video because of the skinheads in it. The amount of times I had to run for having a quiff from 5 or 6 skinheads was comical. In the 80's in London it was tribal and rough. You have no idea. My friend and I would be walking along Finchley Rd, a bus full of Everton supporters started flipping us off whilst driving past us so of course we flipped them back. Well the bus parked and out came running 50 mob of football hooligans wanting to kill us and boy did we run lol. Anyway I love the lyrical couplet in this song Our Frank you're frankly vulgar in the red pullover, such a fantastic sound a like lyrical couplet. It's a shame we, Gaz,Boz,Spen and I never got a chance to work with Clive Langer or Stephen Street. I thought Stephen did a marvelous job with Morrissey and The Smiths. Our Frank is a brilliant tune and song and lyrically it really spoke volumes to me and at that time, too many Universal things were pointing me towards Morrissey, so that is why it's my favorite song. I also used to love playing this live even though we would execute it better now. Somebody please stop me from thinking all the time.

That reads like it belongs in Mr Whyte's autobiography.

 

[g23]

Wasn't alain the one who left? Anyways, i agree with you. JT is a crappy guitarist.

I didn't say Jesse was a crappy guitarist.




Well, not today, anyway.

 

[sycophantic_slag]

Why aren't Alain and Morrissey still collaborating? I know Alain had fallen ill, but he is an amazing musician!

 

[Anonymous]

Why aren't Alain and Morrissey still collaborating? I know Alain had fallen ill, but he is an amazing musician!

Ask Martin.

#weRome/BaroneRAffaele

Benny-the-British-Butcher

 

[MozIsGod]

Why aren't Alain and Morrissey still collaborating?

As rumor has it, Mr. Whyte showed up uninvited to the Refusal recording sessions and demanded to record guitar for his co-writes featured on the album. Morrissey wanted none of it. Boz gave Alain his pink slip in the Conway Studios parking lot on one autumn day in November 2007. The rest is history.

 

[Anonymous]

As rumor has it, Mr. Whyte showed up invited to the Refusal recording sessions and demanded to record guitar for his co-writes featured on the album. Morrissey wanted none of it. Boz gave Alain his pink slip in the Conway Studios parking lot on one autumn day in November 2007. The rest is history.

But he didn't tour Ringleader but still penned music and for Refusal. So why didn't his days end after thdy night in Dublin in 2004??

 

[ACTON]

But he didn't tour Ringleader but still penned music and for Refusal. So why didn't his days end after thdy night in Dublin in 2004??

Its a mystery. I was at that concert and although it was amazing there was obviously something wrong when Moz's voice cracked emotionally at the line 'Haven't you me with you now?' from America Is Not The World. I would have paid more attention to Alain on stage if I'd known it was his swansong.
I snuck/sneaked in to the sound check with my brother. Nowadays you'd probably be shot in the face.

 

[Anonymous]

But he didn't tour Ringleader but still penned music and for Refusal. So why didn't his days end after thdy night in Dublin in 2004??

In an interview a few years ago, Alain gave the impression that he had not expected to work with M again after Ringleader. He didn't say why, but it's worth mentioning that there is video on YouTube of Ennio Morricone adding the strings to Dear God (which Alain wrote) and, although the rest of the band are all there, Alain seems to be missing. It's probably not the sort of occasion where you'd expect him to say "actually, maybe I'll give it a miss". So my educated guess is that he left or was asked to leave during those sessions. He seems to have been gobsmacked to have been asked to submit demos for Refusal.

 

[Anonymous]

Moz tells it like it is. That's why his writing is so good. He would have been a fool to leave out the anecdote of Alain putting hair gel in his hair before going to bed. Alain doesn't seem to mind because he knows it's true. So, even though Alain says he's not shallow, maybe he went through a shallow "rock star" phase.

I thought the treatment that Alain got in Autobiography was downright rude. Of course I don't know the bloke, but going off accounts from others who have met him, not to mention his own words, he seems like a decent enough bloke. He has also, for better or worse, co-written a number of Morrissey's better known singles. You can play games of "what if" had M worked with a different band/guitarist from 91 to 04, but he didn't, he had Al (and Boz) and they were accomplished and very good songwriters. To tell patronising and frankly insulting tales like M did in his book was just pathetic.

I seem to recall him being incredible generous with his praise in his book about his then-band members. I bet Solomon wouldn't get such praise if the book had to be re-written today.

I'm sure I'll get the "it's Morrissey and no one else matters" brigade, and that's fine, but it's just another example on a long conveyer belt of those unfairly treated by SPM.

 

[MozIsGod]

But he didn't tour Ringleader but still penned music and for Refusal. So why didn't his days end after thdy night in Dublin in 2004??

Don't know what happened behind the scenes. Maybe he just saw that there was no point in continuing if he couldn't actually continue to record and/or tour his material?

Anyway, here's an article from spring 2007.... https://www.morrissey-solo.com/article.pl?sid=07/04/20/1519250

"Alain Whyte @ the Gibson Showroom to borrow guitar for Morrissey sessions"

Alain was in town to borrow a guitar for some Morrissey sessions. I'm not sure if the sessions actually resulted in anything getting released, but it could be the LA sessions which spawned My Dearest Love and Children in Pieces (which makes sense since Mikey V Farrell is listed as keyboards on the two tracks -- Farrell was replaced by session player Roger Manning at the actual Refusal sessions in late 2007/early 2008 immediately following the Greatest Hits tour). And, of course, Alain isn't listed as a player on MDL or CIP so most likely he wasn't allowed to play those either.

(Also, Alain's Refusal material originally stemmed from demos he submitted to Morrissey in 2006)

 

[sycophantic_slag]

As rumor has it, Mr. Whyte showed up uninvited to the Refusal recording sessions and demanded to record guitar for his co-writes featured on the album. Morrissey wanted none of it. Boz gave Alain his pink slip in the Conway Studios parking lot on one autumn day in November 2007. The rest is history.

But why did Alain get a pink slip? What was his crime, so to speak--besides getting ill?

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

Ask Martin.

#weRome/BaroneRAffaele

Benny-the-British-Butcher

Hey Benny!!

Where's my special order of my special box of my special sausages??! I left it somewhere in some other thread for you last month!

 

[SeniorLife]

Moz tells it like it is

You are delusional. Or lack intelligence. Strangely, which is a topic in itself, outside of his lyrics, Morrissey tells it like it is from his distorted view. Don't confuse the two. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

You're delusional.

 

[SeniorLife]

Alain has written more songs for Steve Morrissey than anyone else (including Marr), so it's not just a question of him having written some good singles. However, he also wrote tons of rubbish e.g. most of the plodding chug rock on Southpaw, Maladjusted and Ringleader. This includes the career lows of Dagenham Dave, Roy's Keen, Father must be killed, Best friend on payroll, On the streets I ran etc.

As someone else has mentioned, Morrissey wrote the lyrics to those 'stinkers'. You can't blame Alain for repeating the same line over and over and over again, ala, Best Friend on the Payroll. Or blame Alain for rhyming '...stuck in a bucket, we trust you to wreck it...'. That's not on Alain, that's on Morrissey.

And Southpaw, in my own personal opinion is one of Morrissey's greatest solo songs. While lyrically light, what is said, only Morrissey could have created. 'The girl of your dreams is here and all alone'. Genius. Classic. And musically, on Southpaw, Alain's talent could put even the most inattentive fool into a blissful trance of tranquility.

Alain started becoming too popular for Morrissey's taste. People on here are complicating things more than need be. It's the simplest answer. Something's not right above the shoulders for Morrissey to praise all glory to Mr. Tobias, while Alain garners more attention by putting 2 minute clips on YouTube. Jessie could put 2 hour clips on You Tube of him playing 'Kiss Me A Lot' and I would rather re-read my divorce papers.

Be well all.....

 

[Ben Budd]

As someone else has mentioned, Morrissey wrote the lyrics to those 'stinkers'. You can't blame Alain for repeating the same line over and over and over again, ala, Best Friend on the Payroll. Or blame Alain for rhyming '...stuck in a bucket, we trust you to wreck it...'. That's not on Alain, that's on Morrissey.

And Southpaw, in my own personal opinion is one of Morrissey's greatest solo songs. While lyrically light, what is said, only Morrissey could have created. 'The girl of your dreams is here and all alone'. Genius. Classic. And musically, on Southpaw, Alain's talent could put even the most inattentive fool into a blissful trance of tranquility.

Alain started becoming too popular for Morrissey's taste. People on here are complicating things more than need be. It's the simplest answer. Something's not right above the shoulders for Morrissey to praise all glory to Mr. Tobias, while Alain garners more attention by putting 2 minute clips on YouTube. Jessie could put 2 hour clips on You Tube of him playing 'Kiss Me A Lot' and I would rather re-read my divorce papers.

Be well all.....

I really like this post but ultimately I think I disagree with you with regards to Alain's live departure. I really do not think it is as complicated a what you describe re: Alain's support amongst fans, I think Alain was genuinely ill in 2004 and was replaced by Lil Barrie and then Jesse. From there, Jesse got into the inner circle and Morrissey simply preferred him in a live sense. There's pictures of Alain working with the band in the studio for Ringleader, and he is clearly listed in the credits, so he was around. I simply think there was no room for two lead guitarists, and Jesse got the nod simply out of ease. He's the last person doing the gig, so why change it? Not totally sure it's a slight on Alain.

Having said that, I vividly remember a recording/bootleg from the US tour in 2004 (Jesse's first leg) where a crowd member shouts "where's Alain?" to which Morrissey responds "speaking of which, The World is Full Of Crashing Bores...." May very well be a reference to the heckler, but sadly I doubt that.

I believe the Alain getting the boot in the studio car park story, but I find it very distateful Morrissey using demos from musicians but not allowing them to actually play on it. I'm not a musician (I wish!) but if I had taken the time to craft a piece of music that is being recorded and released, I'd be damned if I weren't playing on it.

Saying that, the lads were guilty of this on the Your Arsenal album with YGNSOYS and IKIGHS.