Alain Whyte reminisces about "Southpaw Grammar" on Facebook, released 20 years ago (Aug. 28, 1995)

Old Mathew

Well-Known Member
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Or of he'd waited just a little bit longer and had those 'Boxers' sessions to add to the album. There were some classic tracks on that EP.

Boxers came out before Southpaw, which, in my mind, was why the latter felt so disappointing and jarring. It seemed with Boxers that the Vauxhall sound would continue, but it was not to be.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

No wonder Moz dispensed with his services with silly opinions like that. Boz the pielord wouldn't doubt his master's judgement. How's the wilderness treating you, Alain? What?! You're writing for Madonna, Cheryl Cole and Rhianna? f*** off you turncoat! You court jester. There's more integrity in Boz's prolapsed belly button than your faded memory. Alain who? Alain Shyte!
 

HangtheDJ16

The Last of the Famous...
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Nah - there's loads. 'Oh Well I'll Never Learn', 'There Speaks a True Friend', 'I Am Two People' etc etc.

I Am Two People was on the deluxe edition of You Are the Quarry.
 

gonzax

Junior Member
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Totally underrated gem, one of Morrissey's bravest and best albums. I agree with Alain that it would have been even better by including "Nobody loves us" and "You must please remember"
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Boxers came out before Southpaw, which, in my mind, was why the latter felt so disappointing and jarring. It seemed with Boxers that the Vauxhall sound would continue, but it was not to be.

Sorry mate yeah you are correct. I should have remembered that considering I went to a couple of dates on the Boxers tour, LOL. But yeah my point remains, it would have been good if he'd held on to those songs and taken them into the Southpaw sessions.
 
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Hadrian

Guest
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Southpaw Grammar is nothing but a shapeless mass of sound, a proof that Morrissey is not much of a musician and that the traditional song format suits him much, much better.
 

evennow

Writers on the storm
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Funnily enough Teachers & Southpaw are my 2 favourite tracks! He is bang on about 'Nobody Loves Us' and 'You Must Please Remember.' I still think the album would've worked as an 8 track affair if he'd simply swapped out 'Best Friend' and 'Do Your Best' for the 2 aforementioned songs. Or of he'd waited just a little bit longer and had those 'Boxers' sessions to add to the album. There were some classic tracks on that EP.

Nobody Loves Us is one of my top ten favorite Morrissey songs. I miss Alain in the band and his song writing. He is a true talent and seems like the kind of guy that would be fun to be around.
 

evennow

Writers on the storm
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

It's a very so-so follow up to a truly great album. Still, it sounds better musically than anything from YOR, and much of WP.

Better be careful...those are fightin' words around these parts. I completely agree with this. This flamenco turn is distressing. I don't think he has to go back to the past, but how about a late career rocker like Neil Young did with "Rockin' in the Free World". That song kicks *ss! Bring back the song writers!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Nobody Loves Us is one of my top ten favorite Morrissey songs. I miss Alain in the band and his song writing. He is a true talent and seems like the kind of guy that would be fun to be around.

has he written any songs since there split or anything of note without moz. i mean hes fine but hes not bernard butler or anything
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Better be careful...those are fightin' words around these parts. I completely agree with this. This flamenco turn is distressing. I don't think he has to go back to the past, but how about a late career rocker like Neil Young did with "Rockin' in the Free World". That song kicks *ss! Bring back the song writers!

that would be years of refusal. like it or not its a very very pop rock album. i mean why isnt boz more celebrated here though. he did now my heart is full and speedway which gets mentioned all the time here but i never see bozs name mentioned like ever. he did teachers which is a song talked about in this thread yet hes still not mentioned as being its author. thats weird
 

ACTON

Don't Leave Us In The Dark
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

has he written any songs since there split or anything of note without moz. i mean hes fine but hes not bernard butler or anything

Well now, not even Bernard Butler did much of worth since Suede. He did a handful of good songs with McAlmont and a couple of The Tears songs were good, but nothing compared to Brett Anderson. He should never have left or allowed himself to be booted out of Suede. Moz has had a fantastic career since The Smiths, even if it all ended tomorrow.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Well now, not even Bernard Butler did much of worth since Suede. He did a handful of good songs with McAlmont and a couple of The Tears songs were good, but nothing compared to Brett Anderson. He should never have left or allowed himself to be booted out of Suede. Moz has had a fantastic career since The Smiths, even if it all ended tomorrow.

well he did have his number one right away with two albums of fantastic music with mcalmont and butler which is seeing a really nice reissue right now. also everything hes done since has been amazing wiether its with Edwyn Collins, or tim booths of james solo album or producing the first libertines recording or the veils sons and daughters black kids and of course he co write the first duffy album which did a fair bit of business. the one he just did with ben watt was amazing. mcalmont and butler just did in 2014 a special t raise money for cerebral palsy. oh and he played on the velvet goldmine soundtrack with greenwood from radiohead. the only thing bernard ever released as a misstep was his two terrible solo albums and i think he said he was getting label pressure to rock it up which he tried
 

evennow

Writers on the storm
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

has he written any songs since there split or anything of note without moz. i mean hes fine but hes not bernard butler or anything

Sometimes a writer needs a muse and maybe Morrissey was his. I can't think of a better job than writing a catchy tune that would hold and carry Morrissey's beautiful voice, phrasing and (what used to be) poignant lyrics. Maybe he hasn't been inspired to write such music and it can be said that the music is only half the equation. Without the vocals many tunes go unnoticed.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Sometimes a writer needs a muse and maybe Morrissey was his. I can't think of a better job than writing a catchy tune that would hold and carry Morrissey's beautiful voice, phrasing and (what used to be) poignant lyrics. Maybe he hasn't been inspired to write such music and it can be said that the music is only half the equation. Without the vocals many tunes go unnoticed.

some do but to use the bernard butler comparison i dont think you needed the vocals to notice yes. morrissey made alains instrumentals sound great and not the other way around. he did it before alain and he did it after not to mention like i said the fact that no one mentions boz around here though they do mention his songs all over the place like now my heart and speedway. i mean alain is fine but to hear people talk its like hes some guitar songwriting genius is just wrong and weird. i mean lets see what he does now that moz is out of the picture
 

Staar_seed

New Member
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

This is my favorite album along with Maladjusted..the songwriting is f***ing incredible
 

Mauricey

Active Member
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

I'm not fond of orange either, but Moz seems to love it (Southpaw, WPINOYB, List of the Lost cover).

Meanwhile, what does it say on that round sticker? "Includes limited edition booklet"?

Use of an orange/brown colour scheme gives an instant 70s/retro feel, I guess that's the vibe they were going for here... didn't they even revive the RCA Victor logo just for this album?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Use of an orange/brown colour scheme gives an instant 70s/retro feel, I guess that's the vibe they were going for here... didn't they even revive the RCA Victor logo just for this album?

its just a new it color. suede did there reissue in orange as well as a couple of other groups acts. if anything i think it goes well with chill wave lo fi trends where everything is day glo and they want to market to those people
 

evennow

Writers on the storm
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

that would be years of refusal. like it or not its a very very pop rock album. i mean why isnt boz more celebrated here though. he did now my heart is full and speedway which gets mentioned all the time here but i never see bozs name mentioned like ever. he did teachers which is a song talked about in this thread yet hes still not mentioned as being its author. thats weird

Now My Heart is Full is also another great song. Interesting thought...Alain and Boz together. Others know a lot better than me. Were they in the Moz camp at the same time? Did they collaborate? Actually, Boz is the guy who most here agree has been a solid songwriter for Moz. How he has managed to stay in the inner circle is truly amazing given Morrissey's temperament. If I could ask one question to anyone about anything Morrissey, it would be how did Boz navigate the maelstrom that is Morrissey all of these years?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

nevermind the album, where did 20 years go! alain is a lovely guy and i wish him the best ..couldn't believe moz slagging off alain as being child -like or simple in the book ..
alain is just a nice person ..guess moz would not know anything about being nice to people ..
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Alain Whyte reminisces about Southpaw Grammar, released 20 years ago today

Now My Heart is Full is also another great song. Interesting thought...Alain and Boz together. Others know a lot better than me. Were they in the Moz camp at the same time? Did they collaborate? Actually, Boz is the guy who most here agree has been a solid songwriter for Moz. How he has managed to stay in the inner circle is truly amazing given Morrissey's temperament. If I could ask one question to anyone about anything Morrissey, it would be how did Boz navigate the maelstrom that is Morrissey all of these years?

i would imagine that he did it by not having competing egos and by being trust worthy. i think from what hes said and what others have recounted that alain started to think they were a songwriting duo and they werent. i mean listen to how hes talking about the cover as if hes got anything to do with it or should have anything to do with it. its not morrissey and alains album, its just morrisseys. i think bozs statement of that not being his department is whats kept him in that circle. honestly i think alain tilted and thought more of his role in the outfit and found out at the end of the day that he was in fact replaceable
 

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