Alain / Jessie swap - The New Order

Probably the most underrated mainstream band still in existence.

Thirty seven years, ten albums later and millions of album sales later and most Americans still think that they're a one hit wonder.

Moz would kill for their sales figures.
Not in the UK, he wouldn't. Of their 6 albums this century, only one has sold more than 60,000 (silver award).
Morrissey's have had massively higher sales than that since 2000 (two golds and a platinum).
They're probably at a roughly similar level these days.
Even back in the day, only their first album outsold anything by the Smiths.
Still, a good group though.
 
Not in the UK, he wouldn't. Of their 6 albums this century, only one has sold more than 60,000 (silver award).
Morrissey's have had massively higher sales than that since 2000 (two golds and a platinum).
They're probably at a roughly similar level these days.
Even back in the day, only their first album outsold anything by the Smiths.
Still, a good group though.
According to the site Music Norway (https://web.archive.org/web/20161105204602/http://musicnorway.no/artist/a-ha-2/), a-ha has sold 100 million units in total. According to BestSellingAlbums.org (https://bestsellingalbums.org/artist/283), their second album (the excellent Scoundrel Days) has sold 5 million. Their third one, 1.2 million. Can Morrissey or The Smiths match these figures? Not saying he can’t, but wondering if he can.
 
Looks like Boz played with the Polecats in Spain this weekend.

I never listened to A-ha beyond Take on Me, because it is really every girls fantasy to have Morten Harket jump out of a piece of paper and take them on an adventure, and that was good enough for me
 
According to the site Music Norway (https://web.archive.org/web/20161105204602/http://musicnorway.no/artist/a-ha-2/), a-ha has sold 100 million units in total. According to BestSellingAlbums.org (https://bestsellingalbums.org/artist/283), their second album (the excellent Scoundrel Days) has sold 5 million. Their third one, 1.2 million. Can Morrissey or The Smiths match these figures? Not saying he can’t, but wondering if he can.
Yep, my figures were UK. Aha sold tons worldwide back in the 80s but are reduced to a trickle these days.
All the Smiths albums (and You Are The Quarry) will have sold over a million each worldwide.
 
Yep, my figures were UK. Aha sold tons worldwide back in the 80s but are reduced to a trickle these days.
All the Smiths albums (and You Are The Quarry) will have sold over a million each worldwide.
I don’t know, according to BestSellingAlbums (https://bestsellingalbums.org/artist/13201#THE SMITHS_detailed_sales_by_country), their biggest selling album is TQID at 600k units sold. Do you have any other information available?

Also not sure why you would focus on a specific country or decade. I’m sure a-ha’s classic albums have continued to sell since the eighties, just like the Smiths’ albums.
 
Now it appears that likely Boz won’t be returning the Band anytime soon with the U.K. Dates, is there a turning point opportunity for the guitars in the band?

Boz / Alain have never gotten along as documented by Moz in his autobiography. Now Boz is out for family / other reasons, and Alain for now has been playing rythm, do we think Alain may return as lead guitar? Especially now Boz’s musical director position is persona non grata.

Moz has played a lot of songs recently that are Alain-Moz compositions, with the wonderful sound of Alain’s playing coming back (albeit not his lead sound), could Moz change his mind?

I assume a lot of Bonfire songs are Jessie compositions, but now Alain is back writing and playing for Moz, could we see the order shakeup?

I also note the sound difference, there is that Latin twang on work from 2014+ onwards from Tobias, Gustavo and Mando (not sure what happened to him). Now Alain is back in the fold, I think we may get back a proper return to 1994-2005 guitar rock and roll
Admittedly I haven't attended any of the recent gigs but the videos I've seen don't show Alain as a rhythm guitarist, far from it. I was surprised how much Jesse has shifted to rhythm.
 
Not in the UK, he wouldn't. Of their 6 albums this century, only one has sold more than 60,000 (silver award).
Morrissey's have had massively higher sales than that since 2000 (two golds and a platinum).
They're probably at a roughly similar level these days.
Even back in the day, only their first album outsold anything by the Smiths.
Still, a good group though.
Probably not in Albania either but worldwide, it's not even close.

 
Boz / Alain have never gotten along as documented by Moz in his autobiography. Now Boz is out for family / other reasons, and Alain for now has been playing rythm, do we think Alain may return as lead guitar? Especially now Boz’s musical director position is persona non grata.
While it's true there was competition for placing the most songs with Morrissey in the years they were the principal songwriters, it's patently untrue to say they had "never gotten along." They were social and/or on friendly terms in later years, e.g., Alain's recent birthday greeting. I only scanned through the clip but it didn't look like any other Morrissey band member offered one - so that speaks volumes. Besides, they've lived in different countries for the better part of 15-20 years and Boz was always a whirling dervish of travels and projects.

After the Kill Uncle and Your Arsenal tours, Boz did play the rare guitar solo in the live setting during Whyte/Boorer years. Off the top of my head, "Hold On To Your Friends," "The Teachers Are Afraid of the Pupils," "I Can Have Both," "Rubber Ring" and Shoplifters" are examples. I'm hard-pressed to think of any occasions where he took a lead during the Tobia/Boorer years. (Granted, I almost totally checked out on tours/set lists after 2015.)

It's pretty clear from all the live videos of the 2021 and 2022 shows that the lead guitar role will be shared - even on the same song, e.g., "Ouija Board."
 
with all this talk about the a-ha musical act, I now regret my ‘bleeps and bloops’ joke post.
 
While it's true there was competition for placing the most songs with Morrissey in the years they were the principal songwriters, it's patently untrue to say they had "never gotten along." They were social and/or on friendly terms in later years, e.g., Alain's recent birthday greeting. I only scanned through the clip but it didn't look like any other Morrissey band member offered one - so that speaks volumes. Besides, they've lived in different countries for the better part of 15-20 years and Boz was always a whirling dervish of travels and projects.

After the Kill Uncle and Your Arsenal tours, Boz did play the rare guitar solo in the live setting during Whyte/Boorer years. Off the top of my head, "Hold On To Your Friends," "The Teachers Are Afraid of the Pupils," "I Can Have Both," "Rubber Ring" and Shoplifters" are examples. I'm hard-pressed to think of any occasions where he took a lead during the Tobia/Boorer years. (Granted, I almost totally checked out on tours/set lists after 2015.)

It's pretty clear from all the live videos of the 2021 and 2022 shows that the lead guitar role will be shared - even on the same song, e.g., "Ouija Board."
And let’s not forget Alain attending Boz’ dad’s funeral last year or whenever it was (think it was his dad). @Famous when dead , do you remember?
 
Is it true that there was a competition for placing the most songs with Morrissey in the years they were the principal songwriters ?
Given the songwriting publishing royalties available (especially back in the days when people actually bought albums/singles in decent quantities), there must have been a huge pressure on both of them to get their songs picked. Alain must have been earning twice as much money as Boz on several of those albums, though getting a hit single like 'The More You Ignore Me' would have heleped Boz's bank balance a lot.

That said, I've only ever seen it as healthy competition - I can't remember either Boz or Alain every saying anything negative about each other in public, only nice things. The only reference I've seen about the rivalry being negative is in Morrissey's autobiography.
 
Given the songwriting publishing royalties available (especially back in the days when people actually bought albums/singles in decent quantities), there must have been a huge pressure on both of them to get their songs picked. Alain must have been earning twice as much money as Boz on several of those albums, though getting a hit single like 'The More You Ignore Me' would have heleped Boz's bank balance a lot.

That said, I've only ever seen it as healthy competition - I can't remember either Boz or Alain every saying anything negative about each other in public, only nice things. The only reference I've seen about the rivalry being negative is in Morrissey's autobiography.
Spencer was quoted directly about the songwriting tensions twice in Simon Goddard's Mozipedia.

Spencer Cobrin entry: "But things went downhill shortly after Your Arsenal. There was a lot of tension between Boz and Alain about songwriting. I was unaware of the whole publishing aspect and the financial side, but that created incredible tension in the band."

Alain Whyte entry: "There was a tension there. Boz had been making records longer than the rest of us so he was very aware of song publishing and the whole money-making aspect. As things progressed you could sense the competition between Boz and Alain, definitely. It was always there in the background, a constant atmosphere."

Be that as it may, this is coming from a third party. Neither Boz nor Alain has ever publicly uttered a discouraging word about the other personally. The songwriting competition was clearly not a "make or break issue" for Boz because he only placed a single B-side during the Ringleaders session and, after Years of Refusal, Alain's departure from the songwriting scene paved the way for Jesse to increase his share. Later, Gustavo and even Mando Lopez were brought in.

And good point @Gregor Samsa - I had forgotten Alain attended that funeral. Around the same time, he offered fulsome praise of Boz on Julie Hammill's radio show.
 
I mean him and Moz are practically The Smiths revisited.

I am musically illiterate and I would be interested to have this statement further explained.

Grateful if you (or anyone else) care to elaborate.
 
I am musically illiterate and I would be interested to have this statement further explained.

Grateful if you (or anyone else) care to elaborate.
1. Morrissey = Fab vocalist.
2. Alain = As good as Johnny Marr on Guitars including Fender/Strat/Gretch/Martin Acoustic etc ...maybe not so much on Rickenbacker (but again that's not SO important.)

1 + 2 = musicians good enough to be IN The Smiths.......

How's that ?

Hazard x
 
Belated
1. Morrissey = Fab vocalist.
2. Alain = As good as Johnny Marr on Guitars including Fender/Strat/Gretch/Martin Acoustic etc ...maybe not so much on Rickenbacker (but again that's not SO important.)

1 + 2 = musicians good enough to be IN The Smiths.......

How's that ?

Hazard x

Belated thanks H_UK! I hadn't realised Alain was that good . . .
 
I too am glad i followed this thread and discovered A-ha had new music. I loved 2009's Foot of the Mountain. I hadn't paid attention much since then and this post triggered me to find out about 2015's Cast in Steel, and so far I really like it!
 
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