About song Ambitious Outsiders from Maladjusted... What it's all about...

F

Fox in the Snow

Guest
Personally, I like Chris's of Ambitious Outsiders youthful enthusiasm about all things Mozzerish, I admire work he is doing on his website... He sounds like a serious and thinking lad, who is non-cynical and selfless at his devotion to Mozza... I almost have a feeling that Chris is a little bit like younger David Tseng circa 1992...

Yet I can not help but have an impression that Chris's choice of Ambitious Outsiders song as a name of his site is a little bit... controversial...

Who are those 'Ambitious Outsiders' of Moz song...??????????????????????????

They - Ambitious Outsiders from Moz song - knew "when the school bus comes by"... Now in Israel (within Green line of pre-1967 internationally recognized borders) Palestinian terrorists knew well when bus with Jewish children, some of them as young as 5 or 6, is coming by... Chechen Muslim terrorists knew when busload of ethnic Russian Christian children is coming by. BTW, modern Russia, like USA and Israel, has quite a few civilian casualties from Muslim Chechen terrorism... And so on...

Now Moz's other line from this song is "and you are giving, giving, and we are receiving, JUST KEEPING POPULATION DOWN"... Well, Americans, Israelis, Russians, Argentinians are giving up civilian casualties... and Chechen, Saudi Arabian and Palestinian MUSLIM terrorists are receiving, receiving innocent victims to glorify women-hating, Jesus-hating, Jews-hating, America-hating, progress-hating Barbaric Sunni Wahhabic brand of Islam, which is stuck at Dark Ages.... Those Muslims... are just getting population down...

Dear Chris, maybe I'm a nutcase and you better ignore me, but....

If I would be in your shoes, I would rename Amb Out site from this song to any other 1001 Moz songs...

IMHO, MOZ IS AGAINST BARBARISM, AGAINST TERRORISM, AGAINST VIOLENCE, this song is anti-terrorist song, the song mood is ominous, dark, freaky, listener is supposed to hate those transparent sleeper terrorists, who are sneaky, and "are on your street, are among us, and you are saying them Hello"... Like Al Quaeda Islamic sleepers hiding all around America, waiting when to struck...

Yet I doubt Moz meant his fans to call themselves "Ambitious Outsiders". OPPOSITE IS TRUE, AT MOZ SONG AMBITIOUS OUTSIDERS ARE EVIL!!!!!!!!

Challenge to Chris and Mud and their other buddies, please prove my wrong, but please abstain from childish statements about me like "f*** you Fox", "we will beat your f***** ass Fox"... I expect from you a certain civic level of discussion, otherwise LWF would be the only one smiling while we will fight each other... Again, if I'm wrong and I didn't get Moz's true meaning, please explain this song to me... but again, without rudeness or boorishness..

Ciao, and sorry if I touched anybody at the wrong way...
I wanted to ask Chris this question LO-O-O-NG time ago, but, honestly was afraid to insult him, but hey, we are all adults and mature enough to discuss controversial topics...

With 100% RESPECT to Chris, Andrea and all his LA buddies...

Fox (Follow Mozfan)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
> Personally, I like Chris's of Ambitious Outsiders youthful enthusiasm
> about all things Mozzerish, I admire their work on the website... tHey
> sound like serious, thinking lads, who are non-cynical and selfless at
> their devotion toward Mozza... I almost have a feeling that Chris is a little
> bit like younger David Tseng circa 1992...

> Yet I can not help but have an impression that Chris's choice of Ambitious
> Outsiders song as a name of his site is a little bit... controversial...

It is not controversial, in any way. You silly girl you!

> Dear Chris, maybe I'm a nutcase and you better ignore me, but....

> If I would be in your shoes, I would rename Amb Out site from this song to
> any other 1001 Moz songs... You're not in his shoes, so rename another site!

> Yet I doubt Moz meant his fans to call themselves "Ambitious
> Outsiders". OPPOSITE IS TRUE, AT MOZ SONG AMBITIOUS OUTSIDERS ARE
> EVIL!!!!!!!! Some feel as outsiders, just as CHris may have felt during
certain periods within his life. Just as I have too.

> Fox (Fellow Mozfan)
 
F

Fox in the Snow

Guest
Hey, but what about this line... "just keeping population down"?

> It is not controversial, in any way. You silly girl you!
> certain periods within his life. Just as I have too.
Hey, but what about this line... "just keeping population down"?
We all may feel like outsiders some day or another, but I'm sure no one of us is dreaming to kill somebody FOR REAL (and therefore to keep population down) during the bad "rainy" day... I could say: "I wish I would strangle that Person A at the party with my bare hands, he is such an pompous ass" as a joke, but Moz song is very very earnest and dark... Nope, you didn't convince me... you smart boy (Irony!)...

BTW, I'm a man... :)
 
T

The Lumberjack

Guest
HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

It's a message for straight people. Gay people aren't going anywhere...we are here amungst you, everywhere. Read through the lyrics a few times and it will all start to make perfect sense. We're just keeping the population down, come on! Look at it from a gay perspective (Morrissey's perspective) and you will see clearly.

Terrorism, hahaha, that's funny.

> Personally, I like Chris's of Ambitious Outsiders youthful enthusiasm
> about all things Mozzerish, I admire work he is doing on his website... He
> sounds like a serious and thinking lad, who is non-cynical and selfless at
> his devotion to Mozza... I almost have a feeling that Chris is a little
> bit like younger David Tseng circa 1992...

> Yet I can not help but have an impression that Chris's choice of Ambitious
> Outsiders song as a name of his site is a little bit... controversial...

> Who are those 'Ambitious Outsiders' of Moz
> song...??????????????????????????

> They - Ambitious Outsiders from Moz song - knew "when the school bus
> comes by"... Now in Israel (within Green line of pre-1967
> internationally recognized borders) Palestinian terrorists knew well when
> bus with Jewish children, some of them as young as 5 or 6, is coming by...
> Chechen Muslim terrorists knew when busload of ethnic Russian Christian
> children is coming by. BTW, modern Russia, like USA and Israel, has quite
> a few civilian casualties from Muslim Chechen terrorism... And so on...

> Now Moz's other line from this song is "and you are giving, giving,
> and we are receiving, JUST KEEPING POPULATION DOWN"... Well,
> Americans, Israelis, Russians, Argentinians are giving up civilian
> casualties... and Chechen, Saudi Arabian and Palestinian MUSLIM terrorists
> are receiving, receiving innocent victims to glorify women-hating,
> Jesus-hating, Jews-hating, America-hating, progress-hating Barbaric Sunni
> Wahhabic brand of Islam, which is stuck at Dark Ages.... Those Muslims...
> are just getting population down...

> Dear Chris, maybe I'm a nutcase and you better ignore me, but....

> If I would be in your shoes, I would rename Amb Out site from this song to
> any other 1001 Moz songs...

> IMHO, MOZ IS AGAINST BARBARISM, AGAINST TERRORISM, AGAINST VIOLENCE, this
> song is anti-terrorist song, the song mood is ominous, dark, freaky,
> listener is supposed to hate those transparent sleeper terrorists, who are
> sneaky, and "are on your street, are among us, and you are saying
> them Hello"... Like Al Quaeda Islamic sleepers hiding all around
> America, waiting when to struck...

> Yet I doubt Moz meant his fans to call themselves "Ambitious
> Outsiders". OPPOSITE IS TRUE, AT MOZ SONG AMBITIOUS OUTSIDERS ARE
> EVIL!!!!!!!!

> Challenge to Chris and Mud and their other buddies, please prove my wrong,
> but please abstain from childish statements about me like "f*** you
> Fox", "we will beat your f***** ass Fox"... I expect from
> you a certain civic level of discussion, otherwise LWF would be the only
> one smiling while we will fight each other... Again, if I'm wrong and I
> didn't get Moz's true meaning, please explain this song to me... but
> again, without rudeness or boorishness..

> Ciao, and sorry if I touched anybody at the wrong way...
> I wanted to ask Chris this question LO-O-O-NG time ago, but, honestly was
> afraid to insult him, but hey, we are all adults and mature enough to
> discuss controversial topics...

> With 100% RESPECT to Chris, Andrea and all his LA buddies...

> Fox (Follow Mozfan)
 
U

underpaid teacher

Guest
Re: So, it's not "Vixen in the Snow"

> BTW, I'm a man... :)

Setting the record straight?
Our nicks don't always indicate gender.
 
F

Fox in the Snow

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

> It's a message for straight people. Gay people aren't going anywhere...we
> are here amungst you, everywhere. Read through the lyrics a few times and
> it will all start to make perfect sense. We're just keeping the population
> down, come on! Look at it from a gay perspective (Morrissey's perspective)
> and you will see clearly.
Very surprising interpretation... Now Moz really got my confused by this song.... My gut feeling, those song's Outsiders are supposed to be evil, if you think about the way Moz is so melodramatically and ominously scaring parents about evil Outsiders "getting their kids" to be abused?/killed? by someone sinister. Is he doing thus a DISSERVICE to gay community, by making homosexuals sound like weirdo psycho child molesters??? I'm gay and I think both gay and straight child molesters must go to jail if guilt is proven. Period. Lock em up!
No, I still believe in my interpretation, I don't believe Moz is doing such a disservice to gays & lesbians... He is (semi-)closeted, but he is not stupid or screwed-up, unlike say Wacko Jacko (Michael Jackson). Also, gay couples could be parents themselves too... And more and more are... Like Rosie O'Donnell...
Gays and lesbians could adopt a child, lesbians could get artificially inseminated by male sperm and so on... So I'm not buying that gay community is keeping population down... Also, quite a few gay men have illegitimate children or they used to be married to a woman and had child or children from her, some lesbian women used to be married with children, before divorcing their husbands...

So I strongly believe this song is about terrorism, this song is AN ANTI_TERRORIST song and a warning for the people who do not take terrorism seriously enough (like 99% of Americans before Sept. 11)... And about parents fears of their children being ambushed by terrorists, be it domestic terrorists (Columbine school) or Muslim terrorists...(NYC, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Buenos Aires)

> Terrorism, hahaha, that's funny.
Dude, I have 2 cousins in Israel, for them terrorism is not funny at all, neither is for New Yorkers after September 11...

So you are a lumberjack, and you are OK, you sleep all night and work all day...
 
T

The Lumberjack

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

> Very surprising interpretation... Now Moz really got my confused by this
> song.... My gut feeling, those song's Outsiders are supposed to be evil,
> if you think about the way Moz is so melodramatically and ominously
> scaring parents about evil Outsiders "getting their kids" to be
> abused?/killed? by someone sinister. Is he doing thus a DISSERVICE to gay
> community, by making homosexuals sound like weirdo psycho child
> molesters??? I'm gay and I think both gay and straight child molesters
> must go to jail if guilt is proven. Period. Lock em up!

I'm gay too, and totally agree with you. I've always felt this song (amungst many) was a subtle admission of his homosexuality. As far as the kiddie references making gay people look like sick weirdos, Morrissey has been making controversial kiddie porn references for years. He's been doing that since the beginning of The Smiths, it shouldn't be anything new to you. I don't think he's intentionally trying to hurt anyone with it, he's most likely only thinking of himself anyways.

> No, I still believe in my interpretation, I don't believe Moz is doing
> such a disservice to gays & lesbians... He is (semi-)closeted, but he
> is not stupid or screwed-up, unlike say Wacko Jacko (Michael Jackson).

Hmmm, who knows.

> Also, gay couples could be parents themselves too... And more and more
> are... Like Rosie O'Donnell...
> Gays and lesbians could adopt a child, lesbians could get artificially
> inseminated by male sperm and so on... So I'm not buying that gay
> community is keeping population down... Also, quite a few gay men have
> illegitimate children or they used to be married to a woman and had child
> or children from her, some lesbian women used to be married with children,
> before divorcing their husbands...

Native Americans believe that God put homosexuals on earth to keep the population in check...keeping the population down. Natural means of population control. I'm gay, have no childern, no intentions of ever having any...I'm just keeping the population down.

> So I strongly believe this song is about terrorism, this song is AN
> ANTI_TERRORIST song and a warning for the people who do not take terrorism
> seriously enough (like 99% of Americans before Sept. 11)... And about
> parents fears of their children being ambushed by terrorists, be it
> domestic terrorists (Columbine school) or Muslim terrorists...(NYC, Tel
> Aviv, Jerusalem, Buenos Aires)
> Dude, I have 2 cousins in Israel, for them terrorism is not funny at all,
> neither is for New Yorkers after September 11...

Terrorism is an evil, ugly thing and it shouldn't be ignored, but do you really want it to infiltrate your only sanctuary...your music?

> So you are a lumberjack, and you are OK, you sleep all night and work all
> day...
 
T

The Lumberjack

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

the lumberjack, yes, but I work all night and sleep all day
 
F

Fox in the Snow

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

> I'm gay too, and totally agree with you. I've always felt this song
> (amungst many) was a subtle admission of his homosexuality. As far as the
> kiddie references making gay people look like sick weirdos, Morrissey has
> been making controversial kiddie porn references for years. He's been
> doing that since the beginning of The Smiths, it shouldn't be anything new
> to you. I don't think he's intentionally trying to hurt anyone with it,
> he's most likely only thinking of himself anyways.
Disagree... Song 'Reel Around the Fountain' is maybe the most beautiful Smiths song, it is not about kiddie porn at all, it is autobiographical song about Moz himself losing his virginity to somebody older (Perhaps, to a male) BTW, while we know that Moz lost his innocence, "you took a child and make him old", we could only guess how old Moz was... 16? 17? 18? Right-wing british tabloids like 'Sun' made some ugly accusations, cause they: 1.) were homophobic morons; 2.) they had homophobic political agenda, they just needed the most preposterious excuse to unleash their hate; 3.) they wanted to sell more newspapers... Dude, you ought to know better...

> Hmmm, who knows.
I sincerely believe Morrissey stands for honesty and honour in art and he is complex and somehow emotionally volatile but basically decent human being in his core... Michael Jackson, on the other hand, is a sexually-repressed screwed-up psycho, both pathetic offender of innocent children and tragically a victim himself of his brutal father.

> Native Americans believe that God put homosexuals on earth to keep the
> population in check...keeping the population down. Natural means of
> population control. I'm gay, have no childern, no intentions of ever
> having any...I'm just keeping the population down.
Also, Native Americans built too many casinos under Mafia supervision... LOL
Also, to be childless is your choice, good for you... What I'm sayin', some other gays & lesbians would choose to have child/children... Sorry for sounding so nauseatingly Politically Correct, but, hey, to adopt a child is a gay right, provided, of course, that those gays are morally healthy and responsible parents... This right was fought for hard... I admire Rosie O'Donnell for what she did on O'Reilly show...

> Terrorism is an evil, ugly thing and it shouldn't be ignored, but do you
> really want it to infiltrate your only sanctuary...your music?
Sure, I want all terrorists die in ain and the whole terrorism issue to disappear... However, I believe music must be politically responsible too... Think Bob Dylan(good 99% of his songs are spiced with Leftist politics), U2 (just as an example of mediocre but well-meaning musicians doing useful political work in behalf of 3d World debt, I don't fancy Bono), Lou Reed (New York album, very politically charged), some of Moz and Erasure pro-gay songs, Bronski Beat of course, etc...
 
T

The Lumberjack

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

> Disagree... Song 'Reel Around the Fountain' is maybe the most beautiful
> Smiths song, it is not about kiddie porn at all, it is autobiographical
> song about Moz himself losing his virginity to somebody older (Perhaps, to
> a male) BTW, while we know that Moz lost his innocence, "you took a
> child and make him old", we could only guess how old Moz was... 16?
> 17? 18? Right-wing british tabloids like 'Sun' made some ugly accusations,
> cause they: 1.) were homophobic morons; 2.) they had homophobic political
> agenda, they just needed the most preposterious excuse to unleash their
> hate; 3.) they wanted to sell more newspapers... Dude, you ought to know
> better...

It's not only lyrics, think sleeves, photographs. Some of the imagery used is very homo-erotic in nature, no arguing that. Much like A&F is accused of pandering "kiddie porn" these days, Moz was flamed for that as well. Obviously he didn't choose the material for its kiddie porn appeal, he chose it because it appealed to him personally. Only gay men and straight women are drawn to such imagery, please, you should know better.

> I sincerely believe Morrissey stands for honesty and honour in art and he
> is complex and somehow emotionally volatile but basically decent human
> being in his core...

I think you're right about that, but then we all have our issues.

> Michael Jackson, on the other hand, is a
> sexually-repressed screwed-up psycho, both pathetic offender of innocent
> children and tragically a victim himself of his brutal father.

But don't you just love the song "have you seen my childhood"? Oh, it brings a tear to my eye everytime!

> Also, Native Americans built too many casinos under Mafia supervision...

Hey, one of those italians could have been my grandpa...watch it! :p

> LOL
> Also, to be childless is your choice, good for you... What I'm sayin',
> some other gays & lesbians would choose to have child/children...
> Sorry for sounding so nauseatingly Politically Correct, but, hey, to adopt
> a child is a gay right, provided, of course, that those gays are morally
> healthy and responsible parents... This right was fought for hard... I
> admire Rosie O'Donnell for what she did on O'Reilly show...

All good parents need to be admired. I'd make one if only I wasn't so busy.

> Sure, I want all terrorists die in ain and the whole terrorism issue to
> disappear... However, I believe music must be politically responsible
> too... Think Bob Dylan(good 99% of his songs are spiced with Leftist
> politics), U2 (just as an example of mediocre but well-meaning musicians
> doing useful political work in behalf of 3d World debt, I don't fancy
> Bono), Lou Reed (New York album, very politically charged), some of Moz
> and Erasure pro-gay songs, Bronski Beat of course, etc...

I stopped liking U2 during Joshua Tree's heyday. Bono's ego inflated too much for my taste. There's just something about a person who thinks he's god's gift that rubs me the wrong way. He's not all that, really.
 
L

LoafingOaf

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

> Is he doing thus a DISSERVICE to gay
> community, by making homosexuals sound like weirdo psycho child
> molesters???

I haven't thought about the song's lyrics much, and haven't looked at them
in many months...but don't you think the song could be about irrational paranoia on the part of people in a neighborhood when they see an outsider? That their imaginations, stirred by the media, get out of hand? I'd have to look at the words again, but see how that fits. There's definitely a feeling of irrationality to me when it describes bolting up the doors, turning on the alarms, but "still we move in closer." And even people you smile and say hello to could be after your kids. Paranoia is definitely the feeling that comes thru to me.
 
F

Fox in the Snow

Guest
Random blah blah blah...

> I haven't thought about the song's lyrics much, and haven't looked at them
> in many months...but don't you think the song could be about irrational
> paranoia on the part of people in a neighborhood when they see an
> outsider? That their imaginations, stirred by the media, get out of hand?
> I'd have to look at the words again, but see how that fits. There's
> definitely a feeling of irrationality to me when it describes bolting up
> the doors, turning on the alarms, but "still we move in closer."
> And even people you smile and say hello to could be after your kids.
> Paranoia is definitely the feeling that comes thru to me.
Wazup, LoafingOaf,

Yeah, LWF is well in his thirties, and by that age people are usually beyond redemption, perhaps you are right about my unhealthy obsession with this super-Miserablist... Well, his view on AIDS issues are essentially the same as of Catholic church... enough said about this specimen... LOL

Now, your third interpretation of AO (Paranoia) may work too... To be honest, I'm intrigued how Chris from AmbOut and his buddies would answer... OK, sometimes I like to start bonfire and instigate some arguments... I'm just curious what Chris has to say about AO song... Perhaps, Chris meant that Mozsolo people are insiders, while his website, cause it was new and kind of up-start, is the work of outsiders... therefore his motto became "AO, don't underestimate us" I'm afraid, Chris would scratch his head about "gay" version... or maybe he is much more coy then I thought... In any case, I respect him for spending many hours to make his website a factor in LA Moz scene... I was at Temple street (downtown LA) an year ago, where Chris and his buddies hang out, to be true downtown LA is so scary at nite, I was glad when I found that place in the middle of some dwntwn slums, homeless and police cars, also dwntwn LA is all dark... When inside, the vibe was friendly, yet kind of different from say Hollywood or Westwood crowd, many East LA tuff guys & dolls... I was with Mexican girl from Inglewood, we had a good time, yet, I was kind of aware that those tuff tattooed guys may have very few things in common with me, and for this matter, with my Mexican college grad friend (girl who is friend, but not girlfriend, obviously!) Also even if music was supposed to be Moz/Smiths, it was also Cure, Bauhaus, Cocteau Twins, the whole Britpop package... actually it was cool... So, being myself in a sense a Spanish speaking white Argentinean, I was kind of out of my element for the first 30 minutes, but then after 2 or 3 Long Iceland ice teas (alcohol is a good social lubricant), I just got a rhyme, and felt myself right into place, dancing with my Mexican friend - girl... So yeah, Moz concerts, Cure concerts, even Roxy music and Depeche Mode concerts have all huge Mexican working class following... But truth is, Argentinean and Mexican culture modes and traditions are not that similar, for example Mexicans (not all, but quite a few) are taking their Catholicism seriously, at Argentina Jewish-Gentile intermarriage rate is over 50% and almost everybody is secular... So we see a paradox here: white teens are escaping from Erasure and Depeche Mode and Prince into... techno, electronics, yeah ubiquous mo-fo rap and so on... And waves of Mexican teens are descending upon Britpop and occupying it... Now my Mexican boyfriend is over thirty, when he was in his teens he was into heavy metal, well that's 80s for you... Now, he likes Brazilian jazz, classical music, 'cause his college & grad school environs, even new age music, yet he didn't know what the hell Cure or Moz is... So this Lations into Moz phenomena is a recent one, but, who cares who got into Moz when... the whole line of argument is idiotic, and only chimp LWF would keep score... and he is a boyfriendless miserablist as I said... I got into Moz under Irish influence of Bostonian Alternative Scene... For me, Lou Reed was always bigger and sharper and more approachable then Moz, yet Lou is too Jewish, and therefore is too close to home for me, kinda like Woody Allen, while Moz is kind of exotic, Irish, Celtic influence, he blissfully does not care to say about Jews versus Arabs or about any other Jewish issues, he is both relevant aesthetically, and irrelevant to the day by day problems of me as a Jew or Argentinean or Latino, happily distant in his Oscar Wildean enchanted Hollywood Hills iceland... In a sense, I'm related to both Moz and Lou gayness (yeah, Moz is gay, Lou is bi), but I see myself in Lou, Moz for me is an dreamy Irish boyfriend, whom I would both hate and love... Sorry for random blah blah blah, I'm at blah blah blahing mood now...

Oh, I forgot, you seems to be interested at Middle Eastern issues too, like me, so at last Newsweek (July 22) there is very depressing article about Saudi Arabia Dark Ages culture where women are subhumans, have to wear burka (black cloth all over body), be guided by male relative, can not drive a car, can not sit by herself at restaurant and so on... So Saudis are in a sense Bedouins with Pentium computers and Cadillacs, they are mentally still in dark ages..Article is called "The fire that won't die out"... So there was a Saudi Girl school at Mecca - Holy city. Some teen girl threw away cigarette butt into the pile of trash, small fire got started, and teachers got hysterical... The result was a stampede of fleeing girls, girls tried to go to exit, they, being panicky, pushed elbowed and suffocated each other... Now, the main thing, the Exit Door was closed, cause Teachers hated the idea of girls escaping the fire without their all-body covering burkas, so some teachers and religious fanatics called Muttawa (kind of Islamic Vice Police) to keep doors closed by their bodies.. Now dozens of girls managed to jump from the first floor window to the fresh air... so Muttawas and teachers started PUSHING THOSE GIRLS BACK INTO BURNING BUILDING, TO BE SURE THAT IT IS BETTER FOR A GIRL TO DIE THEN TO GET OUT IN THE STREET WITHOUT BURKA... Finally, AFTER 2 HOURS, police came... Hmm, not very fast police... Policemen arrested Muttawas, and liberated girls, suffocating from smoke... 15 girls dead, many more wounded... Now, those are the kind of peoples Israel supposed to negotiate with... Fucking barbarians, stuck at Dark Ages... Just near the conclusion of the article, a little tiny statistics: 95% of surveyed Saudi Males approve Osama Bin Laden quest for... whatever... Holy Islam or this kind of shit... Here is our great enlightened Arabic ally Saudis come, showing their true level of medieval savagery...

Oh, I'm to bubbly tonite,
ok, bro, take care...
 
A

Ali Hewson

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

> I stopped liking U2 during Joshua Tree's heyday. Bono's ego inflated too
> much for my taste. There's just something about a person who thinks he's
> god's gift that rubs me the wrong way. He's not all that, really.

Fair enough. But there's plenty of stars who think their God's gift; he's not the only guilty party there. At least Bono is trying to do something positive with his star power. How many actors, musicians, etc put the massive amount of time and energy Bono puts into his causes? It takes guts to put yourself out there like that.
 
M

marie

Guest
> They - Ambitious Outsiders from Moz song - knew "when the school bus
> comes by"... Now in Israel (within Green line of pre-1967
> internationally recognized borders) Palestinian terrorists knew well when
> bus with Jewish children, some of them as young as 5 or 6, is coming by...
> Chechen Muslim terrorists knew when busload of ethnic Russian Christian
> children is coming by. BTW, modern Russia, like USA and Israel, has quite
> a few civilian casualties from Muslim Chechen terrorism... And so on...

> Now Moz's other line from this song is "and you are giving, giving,
> and we are receiving, JUST KEEPING POPULATION DOWN"... Well,
> Americans, Israelis, Russians, Argentinians are giving up civilian
> casualties... and Chechen, Saudi Arabian and Palestinian MUSLIM terrorists
> are receiving, receiving innocent victims to glorify women-hating,
> Jesus-hating, Jews-hating, America-hating, progress-hating Barbaric Sunni
> Wahhabic brand of Islam, which is stuck at Dark Ages.... Those Muslims...
> are just getting population down...

yes all muslims are evil... or what are you trying to say exactly? of course it's terrible with the suicide bombers but the palestinian side is also suffering! just a couple of days ago a friend of mine who is in Jenin told me of how israely soldiers had shot 3 children!
 
G

Girl Drowning

Guest
Oh christ here we go again.... US obsession with themselves now they have been the victims of the type of terrorism us other countries have coped with for years (albeit on a much more horrific scale - total sympathy for 9/11, no disrespect for that AT ALL).

How on EARTH can you interpret this song as either about terrorism or homosexuality? Well ok, I can understand the gay thing fair enough. But to me this song is very obviously about kidnappers.

It's about suburbanites, living in their sad little homes all cosy with their little houses and little cars 'bolt lock your doors, alarm your cars'. Same as 'smiling kids'. It's mocking the cosy world of suburbia. They are GIVING to the kidnappers/mudereres/paedophiles by having children, providing the children for them to kill etc. THAT is why they're keeping the population down idiots! They are child murderers. We already know this is a topic which touches Moz because he was a child in Manchester at the time of the Moors murders.

They pay their taxes (another nod to the attitude of suburbanites) but the police, who would protect the children from such people, are waylaid. SO THE KIDNAPPERS/MURDERERS/PAEDOPHILES CAN GET TO THEM EASIER. Simple. They know when the school bus comes and goes because they watch them, planning their move.

This song is written from the point of view of one of these disgusting people, mocking the suburbanites for the naivety of their attitudes.

Some people really worry me in their interpretation of very simple lyrics. Having said that, I agree with the basic point about the name of the website. Strange choice. However it's a good site and I am grateful for their newsletter.

GD

> Personally, I like Chris's of Ambitious Outsiders youthful enthusiasm
> about all things Mozzerish, I admire work he is doing on his website... He
> sounds like a serious and thinking lad, who is non-cynical and selfless at
> his devotion to Mozza... I almost have a feeling that Chris is a little
> bit like younger David Tseng circa 1992...

> Yet I can not help but have an impression that Chris's choice of Ambitious
> Outsiders song as a name of his site is a little bit... controversial...

> Who are those 'Ambitious Outsiders' of Moz
> song...??????????????????????????

> They - Ambitious Outsiders from Moz song - knew "when the school bus
> comes by"... Now in Israel (within Green line of pre-1967
> internationally recognized borders) Palestinian terrorists knew well when
> bus with Jewish children, some of them as young as 5 or 6, is coming by...
> Chechen Muslim terrorists knew when busload of ethnic Russian Christian
> children is coming by. BTW, modern Russia, like USA and Israel, has quite
> a few civilian casualties from Muslim Chechen terrorism... And so on...

> Now Moz's other line from this song is "and you are giving, giving,
> and we are receiving, JUST KEEPING POPULATION DOWN"... Well,
> Americans, Israelis, Russians, Argentinians are giving up civilian
> casualties... and Chechen, Saudi Arabian and Palestinian MUSLIM terrorists
> are receiving, receiving innocent victims to glorify women-hating,
> Jesus-hating, Jews-hating, America-hating, progress-hating Barbaric Sunni
> Wahhabic brand of Islam, which is stuck at Dark Ages.... Those Muslims...
> are just getting population down...

> Dear Chris, maybe I'm a nutcase and you better ignore me, but....

> If I would be in your shoes, I would rename Amb Out site from this song to
> any other 1001 Moz songs...

> IMHO, MOZ IS AGAINST BARBARISM, AGAINST TERRORISM, AGAINST VIOLENCE, this
> song is anti-terrorist song, the song mood is ominous, dark, freaky,
> listener is supposed to hate those transparent sleeper terrorists, who are
> sneaky, and "are on your street, are among us, and you are saying
> them Hello"... Like Al Quaeda Islamic sleepers hiding all around
> America, waiting when to struck...

> Yet I doubt Moz meant his fans to call themselves "Ambitious
> Outsiders". OPPOSITE IS TRUE, AT MOZ SONG AMBITIOUS OUTSIDERS ARE
> EVIL!!!!!!!!

> Challenge to Chris and Mud and their other buddies, please prove my wrong,
> but please abstain from childish statements about me like "f*** you
> Fox", "we will beat your f***** ass Fox"... I expect from
> you a certain civic level of discussion, otherwise LWF would be the only
> one smiling while we will fight each other... Again, if I'm wrong and I
> didn't get Moz's true meaning, please explain this song to me... but
> again, without rudeness or boorishness..

> Ciao, and sorry if I touched anybody at the wrong way...
> I wanted to ask Chris this question LO-O-O-NG time ago, but, honestly was
> afraid to insult him, but hey, we are all adults and mature enough to
> discuss controversial topics...

> With 100% RESPECT to Chris, Andrea and all his LA buddies...

> Fox (Follow Mozfan)
 
T

The Last White Fan

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

> Fair enough. But there's plenty of stars who think their God's gift; he's
> not the only guilty party there. At least Bono is trying to do something
> positive with his star power. How many actors, musicians, etc put the
> massive amount of time and energy Bono puts into his causes? It takes guts
> to put yourself out there like that.

Bono is another guy I met a few times,
He is a complete prick
He is very two faced,
Bono may try to do good things, but I think he cares more about himself and his image than the people he is trying to help, trying to end world debt is cool and will help for about 10 min, until they get into debt again. But this whole trip is just a way for him to boot his image.

If he really wants to help reduce the worlds debt, why bother with these piss ant nations that will never contribute anything to humanity.

Why not push to help the USA, we have more debt than any of those crap nations

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm

hey Bono if you wanna help world debt help US!

LWF


http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm
 
G

Girl Drowning

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

People like you are what gives the US a bad name. I hate Bono too btw. I trust you're being satirical, but if you are serious I just sincerely hope you don't represent the majority, you piece of shit.

> Bono is another guy I met a few times,
> He is a complete prick
> He is very two faced,
> Bono may try to do good things, but I think he cares more about himself
> and his image than the people he is trying to help, trying to end world
> debt is cool and will help for about 10 min, until they get into debt
> again. But this whole trip is just a way for him to boot his image.

> If he really wants to help reduce the worlds debt, why bother with these
> piss ant nations that will never contribute anything to humanity.

> Why not push to help the USA, we have more debt than any of those crap
> nations

> http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm hey Bono if you wanna
> help world debt help US!

> LWF
 
C

Chloe le Fay

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

> As far as the kiddie references making gay people look like sick weirdos, >Morrissey has been making controversial kiddie porn references for years.

...or maybe he's making reference to how a lot of homphobic folks think homosexual=perverted paedophile. My stepdad's friend, Mark, is a good example of this.
 
C

Chloe le Fay

Guest
Re: HOMOSEXUAL ANTHEM

> Disagree... Song 'Reel Around the Fountain' is maybe the most beautiful
> Smiths song, it is not about kiddie porn at all, it is autobiographical
> song about Moz himself losing his virginity to somebody older (Perhaps, to
> a male) BTW, while we know that Moz lost his innocence, "you took a
> child and make him old", we could only guess how old Moz was... 16?
> 17? 18?

Morrissey mentioned before that he was 13 when he lost his viginity. He said it was an accident and he didn't have any fond memories of it.
 
L

LoafingOaf

Guest
> Oh christ here we go again.... US obsession with themselves now they have
> been the victims of the type of terrorism us other countries have coped
> with for years (albeit on a much more horrific scale - total sympathy for
> 9/11, no disrespect for that AT ALL).

> How on EARTH can you interpret this song as either about terrorism or
> homosexuality? Well ok, I can understand the gay thing fair enough. But to
> me this song is very obviously about kidnappers.

> It's about suburbanites, living in their sad little homes all cosy with
> their little houses and little cars 'bolt lock your doors, alarm your
> cars'. Same as 'smiling kids'. It's mocking the cosy world of suburbia.
> They are GIVING to the kidnappers/mudereres/paedophiles by having
> children, providing the children for them to kill etc. THAT is why they're
> keeping the population down idiots! They are child murderers. We already
> know this is a topic which touches Moz because he was a child in
> Manchester at the time of the Moors murders.

> They pay their taxes (another nod to the attitude of suburbanites) but the
> police, who would protect the children from such people, are waylaid. SO
> THE KIDNAPPERS/MURDERERS/PAEDOPHILES CAN GET TO THEM EASIER. Simple. They
> know when the school bus comes and goes because they watch them, planning
> their move.

> This song is written from the point of view of one of these disgusting
> people, mocking the suburbanites for the naivety of their attitudes.

> Some people really worry me in their interpretation of very simple lyrics.
> Having said that, I agree with the basic point about the name of the
> website. Strange choice. However it's a good site and I am grateful for
> their newsletter.

> GD

The lyrics are open to what we want them to mean though.

I keep hearing on this board that "I Can Have Both" is about bisexuality, but to me it's about how when you grow up poor and then have wealth later in life, you still feel like the poor person you were.

Anyway...here was my view on Amibitious Outsiders posted above:
===
don't you think the song could be about irrational paranoia on the part of people in a neighborhood when they see an outsider? That their imaginations, stirred by the media, get out of hand? I'd have to look at the words again, but see how that fits. There's definitely a feeling of irrationality to me when it describes bolting up the doors, turning on the alarms, but "still we move in closer." And even people you smile and say hello to could be after your kids. Paranoia is definitely the feeling that comes thru to me.
===
 
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