A Rush and a Push - The meaning

[The Ghost Of Troubled Jo]

I am interested in poetry and the meaning behind great works, and like to share my thoughts with like minded people. My favourite Smiths song is A Rush and a Push, here are the lyrics, and comments about the lyrics I found on a website. I would be fascinated to see what other peoples takes are on this song. Please let's us have an open minded discussion about it here.

OH HELLO
I am the ghost of Troubled Joe
Hung by his pretty white neck
Some eighteen months ago
I travelled to a mystical time zone
And I missed my bed
And I soon came home

They said :
"There's too much caffeine
In your bloodstream
And a lack of real spice
In your life"


I said :
"Leave me alone
Because I'm alright, dad
Surprised to still
Be on my own..."


Oh, but don't mention love
I'd hate the strain of the pain again
A rush and a push and the land that
We stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave


Oh, but don't mention love
I'd hate the pain of the strain all over again
A rush and a push and the land that
We stand on is ours
It has been before
So why can't it be now ?
And people who are weaker than you or I
They take what they want from life


Oh, but don't mention love
No - no, don't mention love !
A rush and a push and the land that
We stand on is ours
Your youth may be gone
But you're still a young man
So phone me, phone me, phone me
So phone me, phone me, phone me


Oh, I think I'm in love
Oh, I think I'm in love
Oh, I think I'm in love (think I'm in love)
Urrgh, I think I'm in lerv
Oh ...



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A brilliant opening track, rich and lush in its music, with Morrissey producing one of his finest growling vocal performances.
Morrissey starts by introducing himself as the "ghost of Troubled Joe" and tells us about his travels to "mystical time zones". This is sharply belittled by dietary advice from the character's father, before he reacts in horror to the idea of falling in love again. He returns to his common theme of misfits triumphing over "people who are uglier than you or I" (also probably referring to his vanity: "the only thing to be in '83 is handsome"); later this is amended to "weaker", implying, in full irony, that his mis-fit population are stronger for not falling into the trap of the ordinary boys.
This song also features a welcome return of unsubtle homosexual references, whereby the old-young man is urged "phone me, phone me, phone me".
Rourke said of this song "[it] stands out because it didn't have any guitars on it at all. I thought that was a first."

 

[Chartres]

I really agree with you that it's a brilliant song.

Do anyone know who troubled Joe is?

 

[Reggie Pepper]

Joe is Joe Moss

Troubled Joe is Joe Moss who had been trying very like a bear to get back the money he spent on equipment for The Smiths - The first thing J Marr did when he disolved The Smiths was write Joe Moss a PERSONAL cheque - Moz had always refused to co-sign a joint cheque from The Smiths account ( J Marr said writting that cheque was the biggest relief of his life, probabaly the real reason he finished The Smiths).


Cheers,

reg

 

[nightandday]

A brilliant opening track, rich and lush in its music, with Morrissey producing one of his finest growling vocal performances.
Morrissey starts by introducing himself as the "ghost of Troubled Joe" and tells us about his travels to "mystical time zones". This is sharply belittled by dietary advice from the character's father, before he reacts in horror to the idea of falling in love again. He returns to his common theme of misfits triumphing over "people who are uglier than you or I" (also probably referring to his vanity: "the only thing to be in '83 is handsome"); later this is amended to "weaker", implying, in full irony, that his mis-fit population are stronger for not falling into the trap of the ordinary boys.
This song also features a welcome return of unsubtle homosexual references, whereby the old-young man is urged "phone me, phone me, phone me".
Rourke said of this song "[it] stands out because it didn't have any guitars on it at all. I thought that was a first."

Is that from It May All End Tomorrow? It sounds so. They always tend to make their opinion on the meanings of songs sound as if it's a fact.

 

[Chartres]

Re: Joe is Joe Moss

Troubled Joe is Joe Moss who had been trying very like a bear to get back the money he spent on equipment for The Smiths - The first thing J Marr did when he disolved The Smiths was write Joe Moss a cheque - Moz had always refused to co-sign a joint cheque from The Smiths account ( J Marr said writting that cheque was the biggest relief of his life, probabaly the real reason he finished The Smiths).

Thanks Reg
Too bad I've never heard about him, good to know though.

 

[nightandday]

Re: Joe is Joe Moss

Thanks Reg
Too bad I've never heard about him, good to know though.

I know about Joe Moss, but I have no idea what he has to do with this song.

 

[Chartres]

Re: Joe is Joe Moss

I know about Joe Moss, but I have no idea what he has to do with this song.

Too bad you don't know everything about The Smiths, how boring wouldn't it be.

 

[nightandday]

Re: Joe is Joe Moss

Too bad you don't know everything about The Smiths, how boring wouldn't it be.

For starters, I don't know how you know that 'troubled Joe' refers to Joe Moss. So it would be nice if you explained the source of that information, or the reasoning behind the speculation, if it is just your opinion or Morrissey has actually said something about that.

 

[Roma De Moz]

I always thought that song was about escaping from the tedium and misery of ordinary life and into the musical scene. Most notably, the punk scene, which was a niche for Morrissey in his youth at one point. I cite the line of travelling 'to a mystical time zone' as a metaphor for the obscurity and outlandishness of the scene (clothes, sound etc.) and the ensuing, 'but I missed my bed, so I soon came home', as the protagonists fear of the scene and his wish to seek comfort within the tedium he so despises. Other lines, like: 'people who are uglier than you and I' can take on similar connotations for this meaning.

 

[Chartres]

Hmm, interesting, now I dunno what to belive really.

 

[faroffplaces]

I always thought that song was about escaping from the tedium and misery of ordinary life and into the musical scene. Most notably, the punk scene, which was a niche for Morrissey in his youth at one point. I cite the line of travelling 'to a mystical time zone' as a metaphor for the obscurity and outlandishness of the scene (clothes, sound etc.) and the ensuing, 'but I missed my bed, so I soon came home', as the protagonists fear of the scene and his wish to seek comfort within the tedium he so despises. Other lines, like: 'people who are uglier than you and I' can take on similar connotations for this meaning.

I really like this reading, though it's not my own - I've always read it more as being about trying to keep a relationship together, perhaps one that you don't really understand has already ended ("It has been before, so why can't it be now"/"you're still a good man, so phone me, phone me, phhhhone me...!").

(Perhaps unbelievably given what I've just said, I don't believe that this song has anything to do with Johnny Marr!)

However now that I've read your post, I like the idea that we're both right. Either way, part of the reason I love "A Rush and a Push" is the way it seems to tie back into some of the songs on The Smiths - to "Charming Man" and "Reel Around the Fountain" with the slightly older, desired male subject of the song, and (with your reading) to the punk elegy of "Still Ill."


(Oh, and I edit to mention that this song always me think of colonization - rushing and pushing and making the land yours - also the execution of Troubled Joe gives me a faint sense of frontier vigilantism, though this is based on instinct; the line's not really that specific.

In Morrissey's context I find it almost impossible not to connect colonization with the idea of conquering Britain, in which case it might actually have something to do with Johnny Marr. Oh dear. I really resist Johnny Marr most of the time, but in this particular case I'm not finding it easy - though I doubt he's the nominal subject, anyway.)

 

[Roma De Moz]

I'm surprised that the vultures at NME didn't cite the title and chorus as evidence of Morrissey's apparent 'racism'. I like this song; I wonder if the no-guitars thing would have been a consistent progression musically and stylistically for The Smiths had the continued on.

 

[faroffplaces]

It is about Joe Dolce, yes? Hung by his pretty white neck. Everyone knows this.

Apparently not, and a Google for "Joe Dolce" is only turning up the Dolce of "Shaddap You Face" fame (even with appropriate keywords). I'd much appreciate it if somebody could enlighten me and end my terrible shame.

 

[faroffplaces]

I'm surprised that the vultures at NME didn't cite the title and chorus as evidence of Morrissey's apparent 'racism'. I like this song; I wonder if the no-guitars thing would have been a consistent progression musically and stylistically for The Smiths had the continued on.

Me too, good lord!

 

[nightandday]

However now that I've read your post, I like the idea that we're both right. Either way, part of the reason I love "A Rush and a Push" is the way it seems to tie back into some of the songs on The Smiths - to "Charming Man" and "Reel Around the Fountain" with the slightly older, desired male subject of the song, and (with your reading) to the punk elegy of "Still Ill."

I never understood why people claim that the object of desire in "Reel Around The Fountain" must be male, and I wouldn't be sure if they are older either (although they do seem more experienced). I also don't see the older man in "This Charming Man" as on object of desire. But maybe that's just me.

 

[faroffplaces]

I never understood why people claim that the object of desire in "Reel Around The Fountain" must be male, and I wouldn't be sure if they are older either (although they do seem more experienced). I also don't see the older man in "This Charming Man" as on object of desire. But maybe that's just me.

Point; I was just thinking about that the other day. "Pin and mount" says a highly specific thing to me, but it could really apply to either gender, so long as the person in question is dominant. "Male and older" is merely my instinctive reading.

(It could be argued that automatically reading "male" into "Reel Around the Fountain" is a sign of a somewhat narrow view of gender and sexuality - associating sexual passivity with "insufficient masculinity," and both with homosexuality. Consciously speaking, my reading "male" mostly comes of connecting the song with my own fruitless teenage crushes, which were same-sex (female-female) as it happens. Do I see queerness in "Reel" because I want it to reflect my experience? Probably. Does it also have something to do with my unfairly associating passivity with male homosexuality? Unfortunately, there's probably a bit of this in me as well. One can only try to be entirely reasonable.

Lastly: do many people read a certain gender into Smiths songs for reasons that have nothing to do with the above? Yep. Am I reading way too much into this entire business? Yeesssssss. I am a Morrissey fan. This is what we do, especially on Sunday afternoons.)

 

[nightandday]

According to Simon Goddard's book, here the title of 'A Rush, A Push..' comes from Oscar Wilde's mother:

"...Lady Jane Francesca Wilde, who herself wrote radical Republican prose for Ireland's leading nationalist publication, The Nation, under the pseudonym 'Speranza' (Italian for 'hope'). The quote was from her adaptation of a traditional Irish battle charge used to incite a potential uprising against the English garrison in the North of the province."

BTW his interpretation is that in the context it is 'an anthemic stampede autobiographical of The Smiths' current position on the precipice of even greater success'.

I don't know what exactly Morrissey had in mind when he wrote it, when I listened to it for the first time it seemed to fit my life quite well, so I liked to interpret it in my own way. I do live in a 'land' where the most successful people are those who are stupider, 'uglier', less talented and less honest, while people with real talent and intelligence are wasting it, because they see no future and have become disappointed and apathetic.

 

[Reggie Pepper]

Joe Moss

Its simple, do the maths, Moz had unilateraly dispensed of Joe Mosss as The Smiths manager/roadie/funder/mentor 18 months previous, but Joe didn't accept that he had been properly compensated (J Marr didn't agree either) so lawyerly letters were exchanged, Moz found his voice in his lyrics because all the other Smiths thought J Moss had been hard done too, probabaly rightly so, Of course all this led to the Smiths breakup, and remains the reason why they haven't reunited - If Moz wrote a personal cheque to J Marr for half that amount - less than 6K for his share including vat and inflation I'm sure Marr would forgive him.

Hope the background info help,

Reg

 

[nightandday]

Point; I was just thinking about that the other day. "Pin and mount" says a highly specific thing to me, but it could really apply to either gender, so long as the person in question is dominant, and this is deliberate. "Male and older" is merely my instinctive reading.

(It could be argued that reading "male" into "Reel Around the Fountain" is a sign that you simply believe passivity = "insufficient masculinity" = homosexuality, which I hope to god is not true of me, given that what I consciously believe is quite different.

...So far as I know, my reading is mostly just based on my connecting it with my own fruitless teenaged crushes, which were same-sex as it happens.)

That was exactly what I thought - people name the line 'you can pin and mount me like a butterfly' as a proof that the desire in the song is for another man, but the line is (probably deliberately) ambiguous and can be suitably interpreted this or that way. A woman can 'pin and mount' a man, though in a different way that a man would. Of course, the original phrase itself, nicked from feminist critic Molly Haskell's essay on "The Collector", was referring to the opposite situation: 'Samantha Eggar finds herself pinned and mounted like one of his [Stamp's character's] butterflies'.

The use of a word 'child' in "it's time the tale were told of how you took a child and you made him old" does not refer to the narrator's age - Morrissey explained that it refers to the loss of innocence - a person is a 'child' until they have had a sexual experience with someone.

 

[nightandday]

Re: Joe Moss

Its simple, do the maths, Moz had unilateraly dispensed of Joe Mosss as The Smiths manager/roadie/funder/mentor 18 months previous, but Joe didn't accept that he had been properly compensated (J Marr didn't agree either) so lawyerly letters were exchanged, Moz found his voice in his lyrics because all the other Smiths thought J Moss had been hard done too, probabaly rightly so, Of course all this led to the Smiths breakup, and remains the reason why they haven't reunited - If Moz wrote a personal cheque to J Marr for half that amount - less than 6K for his share including vat and inflation I'm sure Marr would forgive him.

Hope the background info help,

Reg

Didn't Joe Moss leave in late 1983? That's 3 and a half years before the song was recorded, not 18 months.

I also think you're really exaggerating the importance of Moss in the breakup of the Smiths - I don't think anyone has ever suggested that it was this that 'led to the The Smiths breakup'. There were lots of other, far more important reasons why Johnny Marr left. Although you might say that the lack of a manager was the cause of many of their problems.

If The Smiths hadn't split after "Strangeways", would people be so eager to interpret every line on the album as being about the situation in the band?